Rem 700 Extractor

[Toolmaker TN]

My biggest concern with the conversion is some of the stories I've heard about extractors being blown out of the bolt causing injuries, especially the Sako type.
My first thought was what in the world were they loading in those things to blow out an extractor like that????
Upon further research, I noticed that the tales were of the extractor being blown out of the bolt raceway, and lodging in someone's forearm.
Looking at the action and bolt together, my reaction is: Huh? What? how would that even be possible??
I'm starting to think that this might be an internet tall tale that's been repeated over and over. I've never heard of the extractor being blown out of a Sako action, just the modified Remington bolts... Possible I guess, but seems unlikely.

[gc45]

So in the final analyisis, is the M-16 the better way to go? I have two 700 varmints, both are heavy barrels from 1991 era, the ones with the alum bedding blccks. Both rifles have shot terrific for years but also have lots of ammo through them shooting dogs and squirrels before switching to
sub caliber. Will LRI do my 700's as I'd like to freshen them up, new barrels as well then give to my Sons. how does one contact them?

[Kestrel4k]

Thanks for the pic. They've got it up tight to the lug like I figured it would have to be. Did they bush the bolt face as well?

They use induction heating to solder a threaded insert into the nose of the bolt - no heating of the bolt lugs.
The LRI system appears to be a very well thought out process indeed; feel free to PM me your email addy & I can send more of the pics if you'd like.

My biggest concern with the conversion is some of the stories I've heard about extractors being blown out of the bolt causing injuries, especially the Sako type. [...]

The Sako design when installed in the 700 action, have documented instances of this; from what others have written (who know more than me :-/ ), the M16 extractor install is preferred for people who do have those concerns.

I've been so impressed with this LRI install in my old 722, that I'm now imagining a road trip to SD - bringing my 600's, 660's, and 700's for them to run while I'd be there. Perhaps when I'm retired and have more disposable income, lol.

[Winger Ed.]

The AR style looks like the way to go.
Back when I did mine, they weren't available yet.
So far, I've fired mine about 5-600 times without a problem.
But if they were available, I'd have done the AR style.

The only bolt work I've done is putting different handles on a 03A3. I only did it then after research,
and getting the heat sink to put in one. At the time, you could buy new bolts in the paper wrapper at the local
gun show for $11.oo each and they head spaced right.
So I had a few to practice on, and never hacked around on the original.

[John Taylor]

The Sako is a little easer to machine for. The hardest part of doing the M16 stile is getting the pin hole in the right place. You can't just take a drill and go for it, it requires a sturdy setup and a small end mill. It's hard to imagine a Saco getting blown out without a ruptured case.

[PopcornSutton]

First, this thing about Sako blown back through the raceway to the shooter's face has been hammered to death. I agree with Mr. Taylor, you would have to blow the case apart to make it happen. But, how big was the barrel tenon to bolt gap? Under the circumstances a case blows and sends a Sako flying, do you really think that very small pin that holds a M16 extractor would keep it together? The cut in a bolt to install a M16 is huge compared to a Sako. I've never seen a "mini" M16 extractor, although I have heard of them.

Many of the finest benchrest actions sold use a Sako type extractor. This action was blown apart by a novice handloader, the action uses a Sako style extractor, the bolt and extractor was still intact.

[Toolmaker TN]

First, this thing about Sako blown back through the raceway to the shooter's face has been hammered to death. I agree with Mr. Taylor, you would have to blow the case apart to make it happen. But, how big was the barrel tenon to bolt gap? Under the circumstances a case blows and sends a Sako flying, do you really think that very small pin that holds a M16 extractor would keep it together? The cut in a bolt to install a M16 is huge compared to a Sako. I've never seen a "mini" M16 extractor, although I have heard of them.

Many of the finest benchrest actions sold use a Sako type extractor. This action was blown apart by a novice handloader, the action uses a Sako style extractor, the bolt and extractor was still intact.

That's pretty much what I figured, as I have never heard of a Sako doing this, only the 700 conversions. It would have to be a pretty substantial overload, I would think, and in such a case I'm pretty sure the extractor coming out of the bolt would be the least of your worries....
I've never seen an M-16 extractor come out, even in the event of a ruptured case or the pressure so high as to cause the primer to come out of a crimped-in military case (and yes, I have seen this happen on several occasions, but that's another story from a previous life). I've seen the extractor lip break off, and have seen the springs break. But I've never seen a broken pivot pin, and I've seen literally millions of rounds go downrange from M-16's, M-4's, and AR-15's. The thought of the kind of catastrophic failure that would cause a pivot pin to break makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.... again I'm thinking that would be the least of your problems...

[Toolmaker TN]

The Sako is a little easer to machine for. The hardest part of doing the M16 stile is getting the pin hole in the right place. You can't just take a drill and go for it, it requires a sturdy setup and a small end mill. It's hard to imagine a Saco getting blown out without a ruptured case.

Indeed, I have an image of someone trying this with a drill press and a twist drill.... mainly because I've had apprentices try it on several occasions.... didn't end well...
Without a ridged mill setup and a small diameter end mill to cut a flat in the offset shaft radius to give the drill a flat square surface to start on, you're going to have a really bad day....

[Kestrel4k]

[Toolmaker TN]

222 Rivet styles extractors are currently available on eBay.

I ordered one of these from Ebay. Should be here by the end of the week. Thanks for the heads-up!

[Toolmaker TN]

Thanks to a tip from M-Tecs, I ordered a factory extractor from Ebay. Should be here by the end of the week.
Problem solved.... for now.
I'm still thinking that these things aren't going to get any easier to find. The last one made it for 25 years before it gave up, but that's no guarantee this one will.
My plan now is to shoot the rifle this year, then finally retire this barrel. I think three chamberings should have given me my money's worth.
Over next winter I will do a complete overhaul: new barrel (maybe a Remage setup with multiple barrels?), re-lap the lugs (they were lapped, but lots of shooting has caused some wear), and bush the boltface and install an M-16 extractor. That would solve any supply issues in the future, there's untold thousands of those out there. Rifle already has had the threads trued and the recoil lug pinned previously.

Thanks to all of you who responded. Your experience and knowledge is what truly makes this site #1

[ebb]

Lossing a Sako into the raceway is a real thing. I had mine done to my 6.5-284 and several smiths would not take the liability of installing a Sako in a Remington action. I was told by the smiths that would not do the installation that Sako has a piece of metal that blocks the race way when the bolt is closed, and prevents the extractor from injuring the shooter. I had damaged my bolt so a factory extractor was not an option. If I had the option of using a factory extractor I would sure do it that way. The PGT extractor that is a Remington reproduction would be choice number 1, the M16 number 2, what I did number 3. I need to do some research and see if i can reproduce the piece that Sako uses to close off the raceway.

[Toolmaker TN]

Lossing a Sako into the raceway is a real thing. I had mine done to my 6.5-284 and several smiths would not take the liability of installing a Sako in a Remington action. I was told by the smiths that would not do the installation that Sako has a piece of metal that blocks the race way when the bolt is closed, and prevents the extractor from injuring the shooter. I had damaged my bolt so a factory extractor was not an option. If I had the option of using a factory extractor I would sure do it that way. The PGT extractor that is a Remington reproduction would be choice number 1, the M16 number 2, what I did number 3. I need to do some research and see if i can reproduce the piece that Sako uses to close off the raceway.

That would certainly explain why I had seen no reports of it happening in a factory Sako, just in the Remington conversions. I'll have to pull my L461 out and look at that.
I'm going to put the factory extractor I bought in this weekend, and we should be back to the races. When I rebarrel next winter, I'll install an M16 version I think.
The problem with the PETG extractor is it's the newer snap-in type. Mine's riveted. Unfortunately, they don't interchange.