Muzzelloader Accuracy

[Rockingkj]

Okay,
I'm going to the range tomorrow I will try to get a patch. I have ordered some .490 balls. I got a box of Hornady and a box of Speer. I had to order them, the only gun stores around here carry tacticool rifles and expensive shotguns.
Thanks for all the help. Just remember when you are talking to me, think like you are trying to explain it to a slightly slow 3rd grader. I have no experience with these guns. I am just working on the premise on of the guys at the shoot told me. He said "those silly cartridge rifles are a passing fad".

I tend to agree. Some of em hard to get ammo for. Who needs more proof than that. lol.

[jim 44-40]

I also shop at JoAnn Fabric, and use 100 percent Egyptian cotton or Muslim. Good stuff

[Rockingkj]

I also shop at JoAnn Fabric, and use 100 percent Egyptian cotton or Muslim. Good stuff

Great place to shop for patch material , did not run me off as some sota nut when measuring thickness with dial caliper.

Way cheaper than buying premade patches, a yard of fabric will make hundreds of patches.

[HWooldridge]

Great place to shop for patch material , did not run me off as some sota nut when measuring thickness with dial caliper.

Way cheaper than buying premade patches, a yard of fabric will make hundreds of patches.

Amen, brother. My wife goes to JoAnn's at least twice a week so I got her to buy some pillow ticking for me. I cut it in yard long strips, lubed the strips then rolled them up and stuck those in old 35mm film containers. I can unroll the patch material and cut off what I need with a patch knife - very little waste.

[Adam Helmer]

I have shot more than a few ML matches. Long before the matches I carefully worked out my loads, patches, ball and my technique. Guns are usually more accurate than their shooters. My only question is: Did you put in much bench and range time before the matches?

Be well.

Adam

[FergusonTO35]

I use the factory T/C or CVA patches soaked in T/C wonder lube and Hornady round balls with 70 grains Pyrodex P. More accurate than I can hold in my ancient CVA and T/C Renegade.

[foesgth]

Well guys,
I failed. I spent about 45 min walking the shooting bay looking for a patch. I even checked behind where I was shooting to see if the wind might have blown them back behind me. Nope no patch. I thought they would be a bit in front of me like the paper from a paper patched bullet. I even tried putting the rifle down on the bench and shooting it while I stood behind it. I thought perhaps I could see where the patch flew. No luck.

I been doing this for 44 years. .490 ball, .018 patch, Murphys oil soap for lube. Probably around 60gr black powder 2f or 3f. Go up or down with the powder charge in 5gr increments until it shoots good. That's about it.

I went out today an found some material. It isn't quite .018 but close. How do you use the Murphy's soap? Soak the patches and then let them dry? Wet the patch as you are loading? I looked online and folks are using all kinds of mixtures. Perhaps I should just mix some with my morning oatmeal?

precut patches - if they are on the small side (most are) an inexperienced shooter can easily skew the patch in loading so its off centre = some naked bore contact = a wild shot for sure --the remedy is to cut a patch on the muzzle like the old timers did - pull it - measure it - and I bet 9 times from ten the muzzle cut patch is substantially bigger diameter than the precut ones - then go cut your own off that pattern

There is a good chance that is happening. I should be able to cure that as soon as I learn the secret to Murphy's

I really thank you all for the help. I have tried many of the things you have suggested and my groups are getting much better. I was able to hit some water bottles off-hand at 25 yards yesterday. I am not the worlds best shot. I know that because most of the shooters on the internet can shoot 1/10 moa groups with a bb gun with the sights cut off. I did take my Stevens Favorite out yesterday. It has sights that are fairly close to the ones on my CVA. I can hit empty shotgun shells @ 25 yards with no problem using that rifle.

Back to the range on Monday and once again thank you.

[725]

good for you! nothing wrong with another reason to hit the range. have fun.

[Rockingkj]

I suspect if you can’t find your patches you might be literally destroying them by burn thru when firing. Seems a pretty extreme scenario. Usually you can find some scraps of some sort. You might try some of the wool “wonder wads” between the powder and the patched ball and see if you can then find the fired patch. Thicker patches and different lubricants can be tried. Shooting off the bench will remove the wobble factor when developing your load. Once you have the gun grouping to your satisfaction it’s then a matter of practice to perfect hold and follow thru. With a muzzle loader there is that minute delay from modern cartridge guns so a constant hold is important. No one can hold perfectly still so it’s still a matter of touching it off when it looks and feels right. With experience you will be able to know the the shot was for example low and left when it went off. Don’t get discouraged I was an overnight success after 30 years. I bet in short order you’ll get it figured out.

[wgr]

what does the tube look like? if it is pitted try a plain spit patch.

[centershot]

Well guys,
I failed. I spent about 45 min walking the shooting bay looking for a patch. I even checked behind where I was shooting to see if the wind might have blown them back behind me. Nope no patch. I thought they would be a bit in front of me like the paper from a paper patched bullet. I even tried putting the rifle down on the bench and shooting it while I stood behind it. I thought perhaps I could see where the patch flew. No luck.

I usually find my patches out around 20 yards or so, they fly farther than you might think! Look carefully from several different angles, the angle of the sunlight can hide them in tih grass. They ARE lying there somewhere, they're NOT totally disintegrated when fired! Once you find a few then we may be able to to diagnose a problem or two. Go make smoke!

[Boerrancher]

My 50 cal just absolutely obliterates the patch. When I shoot it the ground looks like I’ve been shooting a confetti gun about 15-20 yards in front of me. I don’t know why it does it, but it it shoots on average about a 1” three shot group at 50 yards, so I don’t complain.

What I am going to ask about though @foesgth is your loading practices. Are you gently seating the ball against the powder with consistent seating pressure or are you driving it home and slamming the rod down on it a bunch of times, or bouncing the rod off of it by throwing the rod down the barrel? There is only one way to properly seat a round ball for accuracy, and that is to gently seat it against the powder. If you’re having to beat the crap out of the ball to get it down the barrel your load is two tight. Even after several shots your load should start easily without a short starter, and slide smoothly down the bore. If that is not the case, your load is too tight.

[Boerrancher]

If you can start the load easily without a short starter its too slack for most barrels
also without a short starter you are much more likely to run the ramrod against the rifling at the muzzle - few things will kill an accurate barrel quicker

There is no historical evidence of using a short starter on a patched round ball. The short starter was introduced with the advent of bore sized conical projectiles in the mid 1800’s. I have 4 muzzleloading rifles the all shoot patched round balls, two 32 cal, a 36, and a 50, all of them shoot exceptionally well with loads that I start with my thumb. Aslo, what you’re saying makes no sense because the short starters I have seen are made out of wood with stainless steel or brass, and if your load is tight enough you need one your still going to get it against the barrel. If a person is in such a rush to get that next shot off, that they beat up the crown of a 4140 steel barrel with a piece of brass and wood, then maybe they should not be shooting a muzzleloading rifle.

[waksupi]

If you can start the load easily without a short starter its too slack for most barrels
also without a short starter you are much more likely to run the ramrod against the rifling at the muzzle - few things will kill an accurate barrel quicker

Frank Costanza had over 90 original shooting bags. Not a single short starter in any of them. Short starters came about with the heavy bench rifles.
The only ones in our club who use short starters are the newbies, and they get away from them after seeing our results without them.
The only rifle barrels I have ever personally seen damaged were by balls that had been short started.