Building a Hybrid Muzzleloader

[indian joe]

Yep I do the same myself - seen enough of your work here to know you wouldnt use it at the finish
I got lucky a few years back (an old fashioned hardware store in our local town) went there looking for slotted screws - they had none left then one of the guys said "hang on we put those up in the office go pick em over" I walked out of there with a shopping bag half full of packets of slotted head screws - brass wood screws and steel metal threads - ten bucks for the staff christmas party - all the old style cardboard bulk packets 400 and 500 in some of those - not a plastic blister pack in sight.
QUOTE=LAGS;5664765]Those Phillips heads are ONLY for fabrication time.
They are easier to work with repeated times.
And there is a less chance of the screwdriver slipping and then scratching the wood.
Plus
Slotted screws are harder to find any more.
So while building the guns , you do not want to damage them from sanding or taking in and out so many times during the build.[/QUOTE]

[charlie b]

Lags, I figured it was a bin parts issue more than just looks. OTOH I have 'blackened' brass parts before just because I didn't care for the look Maybe it comes from all the brass polishing in my Army days

[LAGS]

I like the Black , Blued , or Browned parts on the lighter colored stocks like the Tiger Striped Maple.
But on Dark Walnut stocks.
I like the Brass color because then the parts show up easily.
BUT.
On many,( and most ) I Bead Blast the Brass parts so they are Flat finish , rather than Shinny.
It gives them a more antique look.
And it saves me time constantly polishing the parts over a year.
I too , Bead Blast some brass parts so they are flat.
Then coat them with Brass Black Chemicals.
That gives an interesting color and finish.

[charlie b]

There is something to be said for different combinations depending on gun and type of finish being applied.

[charlie b]

LAGS,

How do you finish your stocks? I have a fresh one coming and was considering different methods than what I am used to (poly or rubbed 'tung' oil).

[LAGS]

I finish my stocks several ways.
I choose the finish , mostly because the type of wood it is, and how good that piece of wood is.
I often stain plain maple stocks.
Occasionally I stain Walnut stocks to make them darker, more even or to bring out the grain more.
On Curly Maple stocks I use that Iron Nitrate that I get from Kibler.
There are walnut stocks that I do the finish with Tru Oil.
I also do some stocks that I don't want to be shiney by using Boiled Linseed oil.
Every so once in a while if I want a super Shiney finish, I spray the finished stock with Poly Urethane.
I do so many projects ,I have to choose which finish I want for that gun.
If you see a picture of one of my projects that you need more info, then please just ask what I used on that model.
You mentioned a New stock is coming ?
What kind of wood is it , and what type of finish are you doing on the metal.
Is there brass or iron hardware going on the stock ?

[LAGS]

If you look at pictures of rifles shown in these posts.
That Pistol Grip stock on that CZ bolt action is African Walnut , finished in linseed oil.
The two TC Renegades shown for comparison th this Hybrid are just plain Walnut finished in several coats of Tru Oil.
The stock on this Hybrid is #2 Maple.
It is lightly Curly Maple.
But I intend on doing it in the Iron Nitrate finish to bring out what little tiger striping in that wood.
The top finish will also be done in Tru Oil to give it a satin not to shiny finish.
I will be doing the metal barrel and lock in slow rust blue since I have brass hardware on the stock.
But this rifle may look great with the steel done in Browning.

[charlie b]

...You mentioned a New stock is coming ?
What kind of wood is it , and what type of finish are you doing on the metal.
Is there brass or iron hardware going on the stock ?

LOL, yep a new stock. Just not for a muzzle loader It is walnut. The metal is a Howa barreled receiver, blued. It will have a rubber pad on the butt. I haven't decided if I want to inlet a rail into the fore end or not. It will end up being a bench gun. Initially 6.5CM and then a slow twist .308.

Thanks for all of the information. TruOil or Danish Oil were two others I considered. It won't be a super shiny finish and I don't care much about the grain highlights. I usually use poly on other wood projects just because it is fast and easy.

Funny you should mention maple. I used to make contrasting wood fore ends for my rifles with some maple.

Last question, maybe I am going to glass bed the action. Should I do that before or after finishing? I suspect before, but, just wanted to ask.

[LAGS]

I would do the glass bedding before you put the finish on the stock.
That way you won't screw up your stock finish if things don't go perfect while bedding.
Like getting drips of epoxy on your hands and they end up on the stock finish.
Or if the bedding squeezes out too much, you don't scratch up the finish trimming the bedding back.
I have bedded finished stocks before.
But it takes lots more time trying to be super carefully with the epoxy or clamping the barrel and action in place.

[indian joe]

Lags
I bought the bits for a hybrid project years ago - nice lock, good piece of maple, gonna be a 54 half stock - primarily flint but convertible to nipple drum percussion was the plan
one day maybe get it done! In the meantime I figured the shoots I go to will allow flinters to shoot in percussion events ----they think its a handicap - ha! - I actually do better with a flinter these days than percussion - particularly standing - so that project is under reconsideration. Meantime I have a couple rough percussion guns for when I get lazy (half stocks so much easier to clean than a long barrel flinter)

Have reconfigured several percussion locks by transferring the innards to a new lockplate - is a good trick if you have a stock you like thats been bodgy inletted - just make a bit bigger plate and re do the inlet

[LAGS]

I also do lots of lock conversions from junk locks that I buy or get on used rifles.
I made a new lock plate for that Pistol I did the thread on that uses a modified Philadelphia Derringer lock.
I also just did a modification on a TC lock to make it work in a Lyman GPR that there is a new post about.
As you saw in that Bubba'ed Barrel Repair thread , where I had to rebuild the lock area of the stock that was over inletted and poorly repaired.
There are lots of options to get different parts to fit different guns.
Lucky on this Hybrid,
The two locks that I am using are from the same manufacture so they both fit the inletting on that one stock.

[indian joe]

I also do lots of lock conversions from junk locks that I buy or get on used rifles.
I made a new lock plate for that Pistol I did the thread on that uses a modified Philadelphia Derringer lock.
I also just did a modification on a TC lock to make it work in a Lyman GPR that there is a new post about.
As you saw in that Bubba'ed Barrel Repair thread , where I had to rebuild the lock area of the stock that was over inletted and poorly repaired.
There are lots of options to get different parts to fit different guns.
Lucky on this Hybrid,
The two locks that I am using are from the same manufacture so they both fit the inletting on that one stock.

I like the lines of that build around the lock plate and the forend cap - much nicer than the originals - subtle - you've a good eye..............................................

[charlie b]

Thanks all, and for the special stuff LAGS.

[LAGS]

The lines on the stock around the lock were actually shaped more for a L&R Queen Ann lock that the rear is pointed.
Since the locks I used were the TC style with the rounder rear of the lock , I rounded the stock side more like the lock shape.
It now looks more like the two other rifles that I have the pictures posted for comparison.
I have another Hawken that I am building that has the pointed rear that I may leave like it is rather than shape it to match the lock shape.

[rbuck351]

A few years back I bought a 32cal muzzle loader with two barrels and two locks. It has a set up cap barrel and lock and a set up flint lock and barrel. Both are TC locks as is the stock and both barrels are GM. It takes just a few minutes to switch. I got the set up at a gun show for $300

[LAGS]

I have done set ups like that one before.
But this time my intent was to use both the same stock and barrel with two different types of ignition.
When I bought a Lyman GPR kit.
I bought a extra barrel that was the fast twist Hunter model.
I ended up just buying another used stock for using the second barrel.

[LAGS]

Yesterday I was able to find time to finish up my Hybrid Rifle.
I will see if Armoredman can post some pictures for me.
I timed how long it takes to switch out the locks .
It takes a whole minute and a half to switch from one to the other.
Now I have to get to the range and see how it fires with both types of ignition.
Now I have to work on the other three projects that I have in progress.
One is a custom Maple stock for a TC Hawken similar to the one built for the Hybrid.
The other two are TC Renagades that I am just refurbishing.
That included that stock that I repaired that crack in one of my other threads.

[armoredman]

Sweet!

[armoredman]

Imgur just changed things, so lets see if these come through correctly.

Forgot to number them last time, so we'll start here,

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I was TRYING to get video, but my recorder malfunctioned. So we missed ALL the pics of the process in between these two points.

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[LAGS]

Well , you guys finally get to see that the design seems to work.
I will test fire it as soon as I can.
I would do it tomorrow , but it is going to rain.
But I don't see anything that would prevent it from shooting reliably.
When I go to the range , I am taking two other TC Renegades in .54 cal that I have restored but not fired yet.
All three rifles have barrels that were worked on by Bobby Hoyt.
One has the rifling refreshed.
One has a barrel that was re lined and rifled to 1:60 twist.
And then the Hybrid that was a .50 cal that I had re bored to .54 with a 1:48 twist.