Building a Hybrid Muzzleloader

[725]

Not a bad idea. I'm just a dyed in the wool percussion guy.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Lags,

Many years ago I purchased a Pedersoli Pennsylvania Flint Lock in .32 caliber.
After struggling with hang fires and no fire at all I got fed up with the flintlock,
maybe someone could have reworked the lock and made it more reliable.
I went and purchased a Percusion Lock, removed the SS Vent, and fabricated a Drum & Nipple for it.
Now I have a very reliable front loader and have never looked back, but I do have the ability to switch if I so desire.

AntiqueSledMan.

[LAGS]

I am glad that you were able to rework your rifle to your satisfaction.
Like you said, you still have the option on that rifle to shoot it with which type of lock you prefer.
I am sure there are many others that have a problem with rifles with one type of lock.
They to can look into switching the locks on a lot of different rifles like you did.
I hope that this custom rifle that is built out of restored parts works well with both style of locks.

[armoredman]

I seem to remember something like that...

[LAGS]

That is the spare magazine holder that I remember building for that 7.62x39 rifle.
Something like that would work on a ML.
But would be something like a parts box that would look better on a In Line ML.
I made that metal holder insert.
It wasn't something that I bought and just inletted into the stock.
I also built that pistol grip stock

[armoredman]

Yes he did, sorry to thread hi-jack.

[charlie b]

That looks pretty cool.

Lags, the Lyman GPH has a metal plate on the bottom of the stock at the heel. Something like that could be hinged and latched as well if you didn't want to have a side box.

Just to make it interesting you could do a fancy wrench and inlet it into the side of the stock. Then people could just wonder why you had a funny shape tool on the rifle

Or, make the hollow in the stock large enough to fit the spare lock and wrench Might not leave much wood tho.

[LAGS]

I had thought about storing the wrench under the flat Toe Plate near the butt plate.
I often install Toe Plates on many Hawken Style rifles that I build especially the TC's.
So far.
The wrench I am going to design will be pretty much flat.
The hole on the wrench for the nipple wrench can be used to put a rod thru to give the screwdriver a little more torque to remove the flash hole liner.
Posting a picture of that pistol grip stock is not Jacking this thread.
It does show other options that can be used for my current build.
It also inspires another design for a ML stock.
Like for a In Line model.

[Boerrancher]

I love all of the concepts and ideas. The photos of the process along with the earlier descriptions of it make for an interesting read. I can’t wait to see the finished product.

[indian joe]

Hmm.
My options for storage spots would be a long wood patch box like the Kibler has.
Or put on some kind of military style butt plate that has that hole in it for the cleaning kit storage.
Like a Garand or SKS uses.
Or just build one of those little trap doors into a Hawken style butt plate.
Many many options..
Kind of like making a spot in the bottom of a semi auto gunstock where you put a spare magazine.
That worked on a rifle I built before.

Lags
I had a friend did this (using L & R locks he was importing at the time) he is a pretty keen flintlock shooter and used a little grub screw with the hex centre for an allen key to remove it - drilled the flash hole through then turned the face down so the hex was only about half original depth - then recessed the back of it 45 degree like we do .
He reckoned he got much better ignition than with a screw slot across the face of the liner screw .

[indian joe]

Thank you Armoredman.
I like you posting the pictures for me.


Well Guys , here you go.
Pictures 1 & 2 show the barrel that I am using and the old TC breech plug that the threads are stripped.
The pictures show the style Flintlock breechplug that I fitted to that barrel after I cut off the damaged thread and re tapped it for that breech plug.
Picture 3 showed the two locks that I am using.
Both are made by TC.
But the percussion lock , you can see where I ground in a recess to be able to get that lock to fit a barrel with a nipple drum.
Picture 4 showed the TC barrel in the stock after I fit the barrel for a nipple drum.
The rifle behind it in that picture is a custom TC that I am building also that has the TC pattent style breech plug so you can compare the different looks of the two.
Pictures 5 & 6 show the Hybrid rifle with the nipple drum removed and a flash hole liner installed to work with that flintlock lock.
It is very easy to switch the locks from one to the other.
It can be done in the field or at the range with just a small wrench and a screwdriver in just a couple minutes.

that brass lookin phillips head screw in picture no 6 is goin in the trash !!!!!!

[LAGS]

Those Phillips heads are ONLY for fabrication time.
They are easier to work with repeated times.
And there is a less chance of the screwdriver slipping and then scratching the wood.
Plus
Slotted screws are harder to find any more.
So while building the guns , you do not want to damage them from sanding or taking in and out so many times during the build.

[LAGS]

With the holidays,
I haven't done too much work on the rifle.
But I did make the barrel under rib and installed the nose cap and butt plate.
I put on a Hawken style butt plate instead of the flatter Renegade butt plate.
I also set the length of pull on the stock about 1/2" longer than standard TC hawkens since I started with a rough shaped stock.
I wanted a little longer pull because I am tall and have long arms.
( My arms are really long from always patting myself on the back when doing my builds )
I will send Armoredman some pictures for him to post.

[armoredman]

And here we go.

[LAGS]

There you go.
The last picture is the Hybrid rifle in the center compared to a TC Hawken and a TC Renegade that I have refurbished.
The top picture is the same rifles , but I shortened the forend on the Hybrid and added the under barrel rib and thimbles.
The center picture is the Hybrid tool for switching out the locks from percussion to flintlock or vise versa.
It is made out of a broken file that has the hole to remove the Nipple.
And a slot that is made as a wrench to unscrew the nipple drum.
The tapered end will be ground into a screwdriver tip to remove the lock screw and unscrew the flash hole liner.
One simple tool makes switching the locks easy.

Now a description of the comparison of the rifles.
The Hybrid is made from a TC Renegade barrel on a Rough Hawken style blank stock that I bought to convert.
The Hybrid barrel is actually only 3/4" shorter than the Renegade barrel.
But it is mounted back 1.5" because I didn't use the TC hook style breech plug or Tang.
You can see that if you look at where the barrel pin is located.
I lined up the rifles based on where the locks are so you can see the differences in modifications.
Like the Hybrid has a 1/2" longer stock pull length.
Which is a way longer pull than the Renegade.
But the overall length is way shorter than the other two rifles.
But the length of the barrel is only actually 3/4" shorter than a stock Renegade barrel.
That will retain the same accuracy as the Renegade.
I put a Hawken style butt plate on the Hybrid since I prefer that one over the flat Renegade butt plate.
But the blank stock could have been shaped to use a Renegade style butt plate or even a Recoil pad if that is what you prefer over a curved butt plate.
Tell me what you think of the new model.
One other thing.
The Hawken style stock has a Cheek Piece on the left side.
The Renegade stock does not have a raised cheek piece.
I like a cheek piece for more accurate shooting.

[LAGS]

I haven't decided if I want to use a brass trigger guard instead of the iron one from the Renegade and same with the ramrod thimbles.
Should I use brass ones.
I intend on installing a brass patch box off a TC Hawken.
Or maybe I can find a steel patch box that I can blue or brown to match the other metal.
This is a Maple wood stock.
It will end up with some Tiger Stripping when I do the finishing on the wood.
Your guys opinions are well worth it to me on how the finished rifle ends up.
This is going to make a darn good hunting rifle.
Light , compact , and .54 cal with a 1:48 deep rifling twist barrel.redone by Hoyt.

[charlie b]

I would go all steel or all brass. I personally like the all steel look.

And it looks really good too.

[Graysmoke]

To all,
I see all the talent on this forum and look at the fine work being done and the ideas in motion I have to step back in awe. I thought I was pretty sharp glueing up two self milled walnut boards making a blank and carving out a stock to make a parts rifle. A lot of work to be sure but pales in comparison to what I see here.
I have a lot to learn!
Graysmoke

[LAGS]

I for the most part agree with you Charlie b.
But sometimes like right now.
Since I am building this rifle like the other two out of parts that I have on hand.
The only curved butt plates I had in stock was the brass ones I have from the Thompson Hawkens.
And same with the patch box.
But I do have many other patch boxes that are from other brands of rifles.
You can see that if you look at that picture of the Renegade that I refurbished.
That is a German silver patch box off a CVA brand of rifle.
And the nose cap that I had and used on the Hybrid happened to be brass.
So it looks like the accessories on this project will all be brass.
But I love the Tiger Striped maple stocks with all blued or browned metal parts , like that one I rebuilt for Armoredman's sons rifle.

[LAGS]

Thank you Graysmoke.
I am glad some people think that I have talent.
But if you read my posts closely.
You will see that lots of times , I ask others for there suggestions not just there opinions on my work.
Also I try to make the posts Educational to help teach you guys how lots of these things are done.
Like another post that I just started about repairing Cracked stocks.
I too started off building new stocks by laminating wood planks together.
For the most part I am "Self Tought" , and I am still learning.
But I want to inspire others to do their own work.
And lots of times I show them the methods that I started doing with simple tools so they can get started easily.
I do not do my work as a business.
But I have made a ton of money selling off my overstock of projects to make room to make more projects.
But that money goes right back into buying more parts and more lesser condition rifles to rebuild.
My Hobby supports itself very well.