Table top lathe recommendations??

[country gent]

I have a central machine 7 x 10" basically the same machine its okay, with the longer bed it will do a lot and make set ups easier. Turning mine on is a little more procedure than the bigger machines. It could stand a little more power but Im used to bigger machines. They usually come with a tool package also chuck a few cutters drill chuck live center. You will want to pick up a 6" bench grinder for sharping tools. For working brass and what your wanting to do HSS cobalt is cheaper easier to sharpen and a good choice. You dont need special wheels to sharpen it either.

These machines are light 2 guys can carry them in. I believe my 7 x 10 is 75 lbs. When I had my shop moved, both lathes the mill and surface grinder it was a all day event and 800.00. When we moved the big drill in it was a semi fork lift and skates 1600.00. Being able to carry set p and move around is a big plus. This didnt include wiring them up.

I believe youll be happy with the machine as you learn and gain experience you may want to upgrade or add a mill but this machine will do what you want. You will want to add an indicator and magnetic base.

[uscra112]

I've bought a number of tooling items from LittleMachineShop. All first quality.

[uscra112]

One thing that is a must for a beginner - a quick-change toolpost. The old-fashioned flat turret that lathe comes with is a PITA to use, because you have to shim your tools to get them at the right height. The fellow I bought my Unimat from had been driven to distraction by this, and practically gave the machine away. I know how to do it, but can't be bothered. A German company sold a suitably sized quick-change, and now I'm a happy camper. A simple turn of a knob adjusts the height. If you've never run a lathe before, a tutorial on tool geometry is required reading before you ever try to cut anything. Ought to be plenty on-line.

[Hannibal]

One thing that is a must for a beginner - a quick-change toolpost. The old-fashioned flat turret that lathe comes with is a PITA to use, because you have to shim your tools to get them at the right height. The fellow I bought my Unimat from had been driven to distraction by this, and practically gave the machine away. I know how to do it, but can't be bothered. A German company sold a suitably sized quick-change, and now I'm a happy camper. A simple turn of a knob adjusts the height. If you've never run a lathe before, a tutorial on tool geometry is required reading before you ever try to cut anything. Ought to be plenty on-line.

Interesting perspective. I intentionally started out doing everything with hand tools. Files. Hacksaws. Rasps. Chisels. Sandpaper on wood blocks.

Reason being power tools do NOT make you a better craftsman. They just allow you to screw things up a whole lot quicker.

If you don't understand what you're doing, spending money on equipment will never fix that.

I used a lantern tool post and HSS bits for a long time.

It amazes me. It's a wonder anyone ever made anything a century or 2 ago without YouTube. Good thing someone Googled gunpowder. Otherwise we'd still be throwing rocks and sharp sticks an one another.

[uscra112]

One factoid I learned from a dozen years in the machine tool industry: The machine tool extends the reach of the craftsman by building the skill into the tool.

Imagine launching a payload to orbit. or building the power grid, or even making a usable automobile, with only hand tools.

The machine tool industry is small, almost minute compared to the oil industry, the steel industry, or Amazon and Walmart, but everything, EVERYTHING we depend on every day starts with machine tools. We owe our entire technology to the English and Scots pioneers, Maudslay, Murray, Bramah, Wilkinson, Whitworth, Fox and many others who created the industrial revolution by inventing precision measurement and "machines that make machines".

[Hannibal]

One factoid I learned from a dozen years in the machine tool industry: The machine tool extends the reach of the craftsman by building the skill into the tool.

Imagine launching a payload to orbit. or building the power grid, or even making a usable automobile, with only hand tools.

The machine tool industry is small, almost minute compared to the oil industry, the steel industry, or Amazon and Walmart, but everything, EVERYTHING we depend on every day starts with machine tools. We owe our entire technology to the English and Scots pioneers, Maudslay, Murray, Bramah, Wilkinson, Whitworth, Fox and many others who created the industrial revolution by inventing precision measurement and "machines that make machines".

I understand your point. My point is that nothing can be built if the one attempting to do so does not understand the necessary skills.

You don't become a skilled auto mechanic by filling a big toolbox. You can change a bunch of parts really fast yet still never fix a thing except by chance.

[uscra112]

Which is why a beginner lathe hand needs to learn tool geometry first and foremost Time was, he learned it as an apprentice, later on he might read it in a book, if he could find one, but today he can take a short course at home, on the internet. Hateful as it may be socially, it is a heck of a tool for disseminating knowledge.

[country gent]

The old craftsmen tradesman viewed their hand tools as precision tools. In the early times machines were made in house not bought. The skill of filing hand sawing chiseling scraping are dying out now. These skills are important to the craftsman. Ive done a lot of work with the old turret holders and lantern holders, They will do the job but may have more fiddling around to get tooling to be where you want it. With the old square turret style holders once you decide on a tool size shim it up to them. I have aloeis tooling on my big lathes but the mini has the square turret on it, I havent got around to making a tool holder and block for it yet.

A big plus for a beginner is one of the night classes in machine trades or a mentor to offer guidance on the how to. HSS cobalt is probably the best to start out with its very forgiving. Also the blank can be ground to turning facing forms cut offs. Learning to sharpen tools and drills is a big start. Every old tool maker machinists box has a big bow of used bits in it that they have been grinding regrinding or saving for years. In my box there are these tools one of which are a set of grooving tools in widths of .030, .060, .090, .125 and .187 for cutting o ring grooves and snap ring grooves. also a bunch of threading tools with various offsets and widths.

Starting out can be daunting but with a mentor and or training it is a lot easier. I have helped some on this sight and have several in the area here I help with information. Knowledge is one of the few things you can give away and keep at the same time.

[trails4u]

I worked for years in an automotive machine shop, so have a pretty good understanding of the concepts and practical application...it's just been a few years (decades?). We ran pretty old machines, everything manual.....sharpened our own tooling, everything was manual measurement with dial indicators, etc., etc. so I'm comfortable with all that....just want to buy the best machine I can in the price range that makes sense for what I'm doing in the foreseeable future. Just an early warning....same questions are coming for a small mill and maybe an arbor press or small hydraulic press.

Thanks again for all the input.....great discussion!

[Hannibal]

The old craftsmen tradesman viewed their hand tools as precision tools. In the early times machines were made in house not bought. The skill of filing hand sawing chiseling scraping are dying out now. These skills are important to the craftsman. Ive done a lot of work with the old turret holders and lantern holders, They will do the job but may have more fiddling around to get tooling to be where you want it. With the old square turret style holders once you decide on a tool size shim it up to them. I have aloeis tooling on my big lathes but the mini has the square turret on it, I havent got around to making a tool holder and block for it yet.

A big plus for a beginner is one of the night classes in machine trades or a mentor to offer guidance on the how to. HSS cobalt is probably the best to start out with its very forgiving. Also the blank can be ground to turning facing forms cut offs. Learning to sharpen tools and drills is a big start. Every old tool maker machinists box has a big bow of used bits in it that they have been grinding regrinding or saving for years. In my box there are these tools one of which are a set of grooving tools in widths of .030, .060, .090, .125 and .187 for cutting o ring grooves and snap ring grooves. also a bunch of threading tools with various offsets and widths.

Starting out can be daunting but with a mentor and or training it is a lot easier. I have helped some on this sight and have several in the area here I help with information. Knowledge is one of the few things you can give away and keep at the same time.

You are able to communicate the things I was trying to convey much better than I have.

I've not had a particularly good day and thus I'm a bit short on eloquence.

You nailed it.

[fg-machine]

One piece of advice I always give is don't buy anything till you are absolutely sure you need it .
I can probably dig threw my tool boxes and find 10k in wasted money .

Something one always hears is it takes a lot of skill to be a good machinist , true but skills are learned over time .
A person with just a little intelligence and no skill can still be a good machinist if they stop every now and then to use the brain in thier head .

[uscra112]

Ironically, for over 150 years the accuracy of machine tools was entirely dependent on skilled craftsmen using hand tools. "Scraper hands" who could skim the high spots off the rough machined castings to bring the slides into what we called "straight, flat, square and parallel". It was a bit of an art, and it's dying out. I worked for C.O.Hoffacker for a while, and watched them true up the alignments of the deVliegs, Bullards, and other machines we rebuilt. Learned how it was done, but I never got good at actually doing it. (Mainly because that wasn't my job, I was a sales engineer and contract administrator.) For one thing it took quite a bit of arm strength, even using the power-scraper tools we had. Today, the machine structures don't have to be all that accurate. The computer is taught to map the errors, and corrects for them as it goes.

[uscra112]

When it comes to looking for a benchtop mill, if that's your direction, ask me about mine. I'll have a lot to say, almost none of it good. (It was meant to be replaced with a Bridgeport, but that never happened.) I can at least help you avoid some pitfalls.

[trails4u]

Ironically, for over 150 years the accuracy of machine tools was entirely dependent on skilled craftsmen using hand tools. "Scraper hands" who could skim the high spots off the rough machined castings to bring the slides into what we called "straight, flat, square and parallel". It was a bit of an art, and it's dying out. I worked for C.O.Hoffacker for a while, and watched them true up the alignments of the deVliegs, Bullards, and other machines we rebuilt. Learned how it was done, but I never got good at actually doing it. (Mainly because that wasn't my job, I was a sales engineer and contract administrator.) For one thing it took quite a bit of arm strength, even using the power-scraper tools we had. Today, the machine structures don't have to be all that accurate. The computer is taught to map the errors, and corrects for them as it goes.

Not quite that old school....but we did have a grinding stone explode once on a surface grinder...probably a 2.5x12ft bed with I believe a 12 or 14" cutting stone. Created quite a stir and needless to say the machine had to be re-set, leveled and the guides re-aligned and ground true again before put back into service. The old man whom I thought just build cylinder heads schooled us youngsters for a few days.....he KNEW machine and toolmaking.

[uscra112]

I saw that happen once. Scary. Wasn't a machine I had anything to do with, thankfully.

[15meter]

Don't discount the used bench top lathes. I've got a 40's vintage South Bend 9x24 that was bought primarily to do rifle brass. It has served me well. they pop up occasionally on Craigslist.

Only advice if you go this route is to get a collet chuck for it. A collet chuck holds the brass better then a three jaw chuck.

And I've got a soft spot for old cast iron machines.

[trails4u]

I saw that happen once. Scary. Wasn't a machine I had anything to do with, thankfully.

Yeah....I was running it, surfacing a cylinder head. Still not sure how I made it through that day with all my fingers. The guy I was working for at the time was a cheap SOB...so all of our stones, cutters, etc. were beyond worn out before he would replace them. Same guy that wouldn't heat the shop at night...so we all spent the first hour of our shifts every morning with our mics on top of the hot tank trying to get them up to temp so they'd read true to standards.

[country gent]

Once those guys got the surface wear mapped out they started with a 4" grinder before the scrapper. Here your plates and straight edges are the limit to the accuracy. The hand scrapped surface is a real thing of beauty when done. To many try to use the stone to make changes and the pattern isnt there. That pattern of the hills and valleys is not just accurate it also holds oil reducing wear. Flaking is another real art.

[uscra112]

At Hoffacker they'd leave the surface grinder tables cycling back and forth all night, just to keep the machine at a stable temperature for the morning.

If you want to get deep into it, try to find a copy of Wayne R. Moore's book The Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy. Not a lot were printed, and they are dear today, but there isn't much about machine tool accuracy measurement and scraping that he didn't cover.

[uscra112]

The $64 question: Who knows how to make a perfectly flat surface plate using nothing but a scraper, red lead, and Prussiann blue?