Converting a CVA Cap Lock Kentucky Pistol

[Boerrancher]

I’ve had this old CVA Kentucky pistol for about 10 years now. It was given to me and I really don’t even remember who it was. It is a 50 cal cap lock and I am going to convert it to flint. The drum was easy enough to get out, and by looking at it and drawings of the CVA patent breech I am first going to bore out the patent breach some to just under bore diameter. The Drum is part of the patent breech, so I will drill that out as well, and reinstall the drum. Once I know that it is clocked properly, I will cut it off and grind it flush with the barrel. The hole that is through the drum to the patent breech is to big to be a touch hole, but I can drill it out just a bit and tap it and install one of my touchhole liners in it.

I found an old CVA lock on eBay that I bought for $100, that was pulled off a a parts gun. It should be here in a week or so. I’m really looking forward to this project. If anyone thinks what I am about to do won’t work, please let me know why. I am interested in hearing your thoughts and opinions. If anyone has a better idea, I want to hear that as well.

[jim 44-40]

Look at CVA flintlock adapter on ebay.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

It has been done, and will work. They made a lot of them, and finding a flinter lock and swapping it out is the best way to proceed.

DG

[indian joe]

a Better idea!!!!!!

at risk of raising the ire of some ---heres what I would do (done to a couple CVA rifles)
1) remove the nipple drum
2) throw it in the trash
3) make a coned touch hole liner same thread as nipple drum
that thing will go off like lightning every time you get a decent spark - no more fffft -----wait -----bang, nonsense

The CVA setup is a belt and braces idea - breech plug goes way further up the bore than a normal one then has the nipple drum cross drilled through it - if you throw the nipple drum the breech plug still has more thread engagement than a normal breech plug and a nice coned touch hole liner puts the main charge right there at the pan.

[Boerrancher]

Look at CVA flintlock adapter on ebay.

I looked at it and would basically have to do the same thing a I plan to do with the drum. Cut the drum off, (you have to cut the wrench flats off) and tap it for a touch hole liner. My way eliminates most of the patent breech and will make it easier to clean.

[Boerrancher]

Does anyone know the drill and tap size for the TC touch hole liners?

[LAGS]

The Drill and tap are only related to the liner you use.
Most of the liners I use are 1/4- 28 threads.
The drums I use are 5/16-24 fine thread.
I have only done a couple of each in metric threads
Look at T.O.W. and see what is available or what type you want.
I intend to rebuild a TC Renegade with a barrel that I have changed out the breech plug from the TC percussion Pattent style , to a old style Flintlock breech plug.
I installed a 1/2" diameter 5/16-24 drum.
I will get a flash hole liner and TC flintlock lock.
I modified the percussion TC lock to work with the drum.
That way I can switch out the locks and shoot either percussion or flint out of the same barrel.
Oh.
I had to build a new stock because the tang on the breech plug is way different than the way the stock is inletted.
Now I just have to find a TC flintlock lock to have to complete the project.
This rifle might be a world of fun , being able to switch from percussion to flinter easily.

[Boerrancher]

The Drill and tap are only related to the liner you use.
Most of the liners I use are 1/4- 28 threads.
The drums I use are 5/16-24 fine thread.
I have only done a couple of each in metric threads
Look at T.O.W. and see what is available or what type you want.
I intend to rebuild a TC Renegade with a barrel that I have changed out the breech plug from the TC percussion Pattent style , to a old style Flintlock breech plug.
I installed a 1/2" diameter 5/16-24 drum.
I will get a flash hole liner and TC flintlock lock.
I modified the percussion TC lock to work with the drum.
That way I can switch out the locks and shoot either percussion or flint out of the same barrel.
Oh.
I had to build a new stock because the tang on the breech plug is way different than the way the stock is inletted.
Now I just have to find a TC flintlock lock to have to complete the project.
This rifle might be a world of fun , being able to switch from percussion to flinter easily.

If this conversation goes well, I may go a step farther and convert my Traditions Crockett 32, to a flinter as well. That one requires a bit more work. The Drum has to be ground off because it and the breech plug are one and the same. Then the breech must be removed, and the patent breech opened up a lot. The old hole for the drum has to be tapped and plugged with a bolt then cut and ground flush. Once this is done, the breech can be reattached to the barrel, and the lock installed. Once the lock is installed the placement for the touch hole can be marked and then drilled. It’s a lot of work to convert one, but I am going to try.

[LAGS]

If I ever find that TC flint lock part , I will try and post some pictures of my work.
I have a Traditions " Crockett "
I see what you had mentioned about converting it to a flinter.
But the main point of doing my Renegade is to make a rifle that you can easily swap the locks out to either use percussion or flints.
The whole basis is , I am building the rifle out of used parts that in most cases had to be reworked or restored.
The barrel had a stuck , and stripped breech plug and was .50 cal that has now been rebored by Hoyt to .54

[Boerrancher]

Well my lock came in and I don’t know what it is. It is not a CVA it is larger than a CVA but the back plate is marked Spain that is it. It does need a bit of work. The sear needs to be smoothed up some, and I need to figure out how to reduce the tension in the Frizzen spring, because it is a beast. The hammer won’t open it, because it has so much tension. Any ideas on how to lighten it?

[LAGS]

A spring can be lightened by heating it up and then letting it cool down slowly.
But I would suggest you just find a replacement first.
Not being experienced with making springs , there is a great chance you can mess up your early trys.
If that lock is stamped Spain , it is probably a Jukar.
Most of those are not a top of the line lock.
But I have used them before and also modified a couple to make them work better or to fit what I was building .

[LAGS]

I got that TC flintlock lock today.
It drops right in the inletting on a TC percussion lock style stock.
It mostly fits into the inletting on the stock that I made from a blank.
But needs some minor fitting of the inletting that is very tight.
But I have to wait until I get the new flash hole liner to make sure that the flash hole does line up properly with the flash pan on the new lock.
In general, it does look like it will work.
But I have the capabilities to train parts to make it fit well.
I will try and let you know how it goes work and maybe get my friend to post pictures.

[Boerrancher]

A spring can be lightened by heating it up and then letting it cool down slowly.
But I would suggest you just find a replacement first.
Not being experienced with making springs , there is a great chance you can mess up your early trys.
If that lock is stamped Spain , it is probably a Jukar.
Most of those are not a top of the line lock.
But I have used them before and also modified a couple to make them work better or to fit what I was building .

I was looking at how wide the frizzen spring is on this lock, it’s almost 3x as wide as the springs on all my others. I am thinking about grinding it away a bit at a time and trying that first. Heck it is as wide as the main spring.

[LAGS]

On some springs,
You can lighten them up by grinding the width.
You can also try polishing down the part of the Frizzen that rides on that spring.
That won't lighten up the spring , but can make it work smoother with less tension.
Also look at your Frizzen spring.
One arm should sit hard on the lock plate.
The arm under the Frizzen should slide on the Frizzen plate.
Sometimes,
Depending on the spring design.
If the screw that holds the spring on to the plate is over tightened.
The top spring arm won't move or moves with restriction.
In those cases , I loosen the screw , and lock it in the workable position with Blue Locktite

[Boerrancher]

Everything is pretty smooth on this lock, it just has some monster sized springs on it. Inside the lockplate it says Spain but everything about this lock says it is hand made. You can feel the hammer tracks and in some cases see them in areas that it doesn’t matter. To give you an idea of how strong this frizzen spring is, I was just now playing with it and the frizzen snapped back to the closed position and the hammer was at half cock. It snapped back with such force it mashed my finger between the flint and the frizzen causing the flint to cut a deep gash in my hand, and the flint isn’t sharp, because I have been slamming it against the frizzen trying to get it to open up like it should with just the hammer pressure.

[LAGS]

Do you think you can make yourself a new spring.
Shaping it should be fairly easy if you can find some hardened metal that is almost the same thickness.
Like a old hacksaw or SawsAll blade.
That metal can be heated to red hot.
Bent to shape.
Then tempered by heating it to about 600 degrees and then letting it cool slowly.
It might be something worth playing with since the spring you already have sort of works.
So you know the size , shape and thickness for what you have to duplicate.
For some locks, I made flat main springs out of old Skill Saw blade metal.
And Sear springs out of those black paper binder clip metal

[LAGS]

Many many years ago,
I converted a Kentucky Flintlock pistol to Percussion.
The reason I converted it was when the started selling Pyrotex.
Where I lived , I could not find anyone who sold BP except for one shop that never had any in stock.
So I switched to Pyrotex.
That did not work well in a flintlock.
I could not find a percussion lock that fit that model of a cheap Spanish Flintlock pistol.
So I built my own lock that fit that gun.
I made a lock plate out of a piece of steel.
And made a percussion hammer out of a fat piece of scrap steel I found laying in the street one time.
I used the parts off the guns flintlock like the tumbler ,sear and springs.
I did make my own drum for the nipple out of a bolt.
It shot the Pyrodex well and kind of reliable.
And that was with homemade percussion caps too since I could not buy those either so often.
I also made my own BP back then.
But it was made for fireworks , but did work in that pistol.

[armoredman]

You don't still have that thing, do you? That would be neat to see.

[LAGS]

That pistol was sold about 30 years ago when I moved to Az..
It was just one of many that I reworked or repaired.
I use to buy junk parts cheap and build nice guns out of them.

[armoredman]

Aw, dang.