1904 portuguese

[Pete337]

Hello, I recently purchased a 1904 portuguese mauser . 8mm. I also purchased 500 rounds of 1940s turkish surplus 8mm. After purchasing the ammo, I researched it and realized it's very commonly known to be loaded very hot. My question is. Has anyone ever fired turkish surplus out of a 1904 portuguese 904/39. Thankyou

[beemer]

Maybe Larry Gibson will come by, he has pressure tested some of it. He has some good info. Not hot just bad brass. It was hard to open the bolt of my M48. I broke it down for components but I didn't have 500 rounds. Your experience could be different.

[hpbear101]

I have several Mausers including the Portuguese and quite a bit of the Turk ammo. It is pretty hot ammo, I never had a problem with it however in my older age I have since pulled the bullets, dumped the powder and reloaded them after decreasing the powder charge 15%. The brass is often brittle and you will get come case neck cracks when pulling them down. I reloaded the ones that didn't split and saved the bullets and powder from the split cases to load in boxer primed (modern) brass (some of it 8mm new brass and some formed from 30-06 brass)..

[Larry Gibson]

Maybe Larry Gibson will come by, he has pressure tested some of it. He has some good info. Not hot just bad brass. It was hard to open the bolt of my M48. I broke it down for components but I didn't have 500 rounds. Your experience could be different.

No, the Turk 8x57 is not loaded "hot" as in excessive pressure. It is loaded to German milsurp standards for the cartridge which also are European standards. I have measured the pressure of numerous lot/years of the Turk milsurp and found it runs 54 - 60K psi depending on the lot. The problem, as mentioned, which gives the impression of excessive pressure is sticky extraction. This is evident by the splitting of the case necks when the cartridge is fired or when the bullets are pulled. The cases were just never properly annealed. Pulling the bullets and dumping the powder charge into primed commercial cases and reseating the bullets results in the same psi with normal extraction.

As compared to US commercial 8x57 loads, yest the Turk ammo is "hotter". Many find the recoil also to be an indication of the Turk ammo being "hotter" but the recoil is as it should be for the ammunition. Many find pulling the bullets and reducing the powder charge 5 - 10% in the milsurp cases that didn't split (I've found that about 1% of the case necks split on pulling the bullets) reduces recoil and gives normal extraction. If a lot gives too stiff of extraction, I do that reducing the charge 5%.

[Texas by God]

Great information as I also just acquired 900 rounds of the Turkish 7.9x57 ammunition.


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[Pete337]

No, the Turk 8x57 is not loaded "hot" as in excessive pressure. It is loaded to German milsurp standards for the cartridge which also are European standards. I have measured the pressure of numerous lot/years of the Turk
milsurp and found it runs 54 - 60K psi depending on the lot. The problem, as mentioned, which gives the impression of excessive pressure is sticky extraction. This is evident by the splitting of the case necks when the cartridge is fired or when the bullets are pulled. The cases were just never properly annealed. Pulling the bullets and dumping the powder charge into primed commercial cases and reseating the bullets results in the same psi with normal extraction.

As compared to US commercial 8x57 loads, yest the Turk ammo is "hotter". Many find the recoil also to be an indication of the Turk ammo being "hotter" but the recoil is as it should be for the ammunition. Many find pulling the bullets and reducing the powder charge 5 - 10% in the milsurp cases that didn't split (I've found that about 1% of the case necks split on pulling the bullets) reduces recoil and gives normal extraction. If a lot gives too stiff of extraction, I do that reducing the charge 5%.

Thankyou so much for the info. So just to clarify. I should not have a problem using this stuff as is. Maybe just extraction issues. But if I don't want the recoil , pull bullett and reload with 5 percent less. Or are you recommending pulling the bullett and checking the necks?

[Larry Gibson]

I've shot a lot of Turk 8x57 as is and as i was just "blasting" the stiff opening of the bolt posed no problem. Pulling the bullets will split some cases. I use an RCBS collet bullet puller and after dumping the powder I look at the neck. If split it gets tossed. After pulling the bullets and dumping the powder I NS (with the decap pin removed) the good cases. Some necks split during that process and the splitting can be felt as the neck is drawn over the expander ball. Those get tossed also. As I said I lose about 10% +/- of the cases during this process. I then load them back up with a 5% reduction of powder charge which then allows ok extraction/bolt opening with the velocity reduced to 2700 fps +/-. A reduction of 10% gives much less pressure and good bolt opening along with pleasant recoil.

What i really like to do is use those corrosive Berdan primed cases with my GB 325-195-FN cast bullets. The cases are run over an die and I load 27 gr of the flake Nobel powder that is in the Turk ammo with a dacron filler. The 195 gr GC, sized .325, lubed with 2500+ bullet is then loaded. Those run 1850 -1900 fps with excellent accuracy. As the lube pretty much contains the salts from the corrosive primes a normal cleaning with Hoppe's #9 is quick and easy. There is no jacketed deposits to with corrosive salts under them to worry about. I end up with about 1/2+ of the powder left to load into commercial cases with the full charge (usually 48 gr +/-) under the pulled jacketed bullets. The remaining jacketed bullets are then loaded over 48 gr of IMR4895 in commercial cases. That load equals +/- the Turk pressures and ballistics.

[Pete337]

Awesome. Thankyou for the info

[Uncle Grinch]

Those Portuguese Vergueiro 1904’s are smooth action rifles. I’ve got two, one in military configuration and another that I had sporterized since all I had was the action. It’s now in 7x57 and is a sweet shooter.

[WILCO]

Those Portuguese Vergueiro 1904’s are smooth action rifles. I’ve got two, one in military configuration and another that I had sporterized since all I had was the action. It’s now in 7x57 and is a sweet shooter.

Fantastic sporter!

Seriously in love with the 7x57mm.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

As I understand, these rifles were originally in 6.5 Portuguese and at the outbreak of WW2 were redirected to the DWM factory for conversion to the German 8x57mm. They rebored the barrels and used the 'cut rifling' method.
Mine has a mint bore and would be one of the best cast bullet shooters that I have, 192gn Saeco boolit driven by 29.5gn of 3031.