200gr cast in 357 Max/350 legend

[mehavey]

RL-7/start compressed/LEE 358-200(#2)RNFP-GC/2.164"
2,000++ fps/47,000psi

See https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5440233
Though be it an XPR. that same load in 16" hits close to same 2,000fps

[lar45]

Yes Sir, I've seen your posts on other sites.
I believe a lot of factory ammo is too hot as well.
Yesterday afternoon I was at my shop digging around in hopes to find some old manuals. I found a box full of ammo that I had purchased when I got the guns.
I have 7 or 8 boxes of Federal Power points. I bought piles of ammo for the 350 when I got the guns. It was dirt cheap. Anyhow.....I sighted the AR in with the night vision and shot several hogs. Then I noticed all the fired cases were split. About 6 months later, I grabbed up the ammo and went to hunt. None of the rounds would chamber. 85% of them split at the case mouth....right out of the box. I got in touch with federal and gave them the lot #. They told me no known issues and to send them the ammo back. Issued a RGA number and ups shipping label. Ups refused to pick up the package and the only Hub that will accept it is 75 miles away and only receieves packaged between 4 and 6 pm. I never got around within those hours.
I guess I can pull all those slugs, measure them and use or resize them.

For your oversized 350 Legend rounds, you could try running them partway into the sizing die with the decapping pin removed. Just put it in a little bit at a time until they pass the plunk test.

[Elpatoloco]

For your oversized 350 Legend rounds, you could try running them partway into the sizing die with the decapping pin removed. Just put it in a little bit at a time until they pass the plunk test.

If you are talking about all those store bought Federals, they are all split at the case mouth.

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[Elpatoloco]

I did just pick up a pound of Accurate 1680 to play with as well. Looks like it is used a bit in the Max. I live in a powder desert

[P Flados]

The 1680 may not be the fastest, but no one gripes about weird behavior. Full power loads will be very close to 100% fill.

[mainiac]

Ive shot my 350 alot with rcbs h-4198 will do 2000fps1680 will do 2100fps.4227 will be high pressure before ever getting to 2000.2400 wont shoot over 1700,without case damage.

[P Flados]

FYI, the OP requested info about percent fill in a PM. My response to him might be of interest to others.

For a flat base bullet, you can find 100% fill by determining bullet "seating depth" (case length + bullet length - COAL) and then determine how much powder it takes to fill a case until the powder surface is "seating depth" below the case mouth. A flat face wooden dowel just smaller than you bullet diameter (or anything similar) can be handy for trying to measure the distance from the mouth to the surface of the powder.

That charge is 100% fill for that combination of seating depth, case and powder. If you want 90% fill, it is the charge that is 0.9 times the 100% fill charge.

Doing stuff like the above is all about accounting for actual case capacities (which varies from brand to brand or even batch to batch) and actual powder density (which can also vary).

If I am working with someone, there is any easy "trick" I can use to account for the above two variables. I can have them measure how much powder to 100% fill an empty ready to load case. I can then set Quickload for zero seating depth and adjust case volume to match the amount of powder they measured.

I know of no way to easily and accurately determine 100% fill for boat tail or hollow base. I tend to take the Quickload percent fill at face value for these, but do not know how accurate the software is in dealing with the shape of the bullet base.

For bevel base, I tend to treat it as flat base and maybe just fudge the measurements a little to account for the free space up around the bevel.

[Elpatoloco]

FYI, the OP requested info about percent fill in a PM. My response to him might be of interest to others.

For a flat base bullet, you can find 100% fill by determining bullet "seating depth" (case length + bullet length - COAL) and then determine how much powder it takes to fill a case until the powder surface is "seating depth" below the case mouth. A flat face wooden dowel just smaller than you bullet diameter (or anything similar) can be handy for trying to measure the distance from the mouth to the surface of the powder.

That charge is 100% fill for that combination of seating depth, case and powder. If you want 90% fill, it is the charge that is 0.9 times the 100% fill charge.

Doing stuff like the above is all about accounting for actual case capacities (which varies from brand to brand or even batch to batch) and actual powder density (which can also vary).

If I am working with someone, there is any easy "trick" I can use to account for the above two variables. I can have them measure how much powder to 100% fill an empty ready to load case. I can then set Quickload for zero seating depth and adjust case volume to match the amount of powder they measured.

I know of no way to easily and accurately determine 100% fill for boat tail or hollow base. I tend to take the Quickload percent fill at face value for these, but do not know how accurate the software is in dealing with the shape of the bullet base.

For bevel base, I tend to treat it as flat base and maybe just fudge the measurements a little to account for the free space up around the bevel.

I appreciate the Detailed info and understand. I value the input from many here who have more experience than myself. Although, I dont always agree with everything on this site, I enjoy getting to see things from other viewpoints and those that take the time to explain things that I dont fully understand.
Colby

[gnoahhh]

For what it's worth, I load 19 grains 1680 and the RCBS 200 RFN GC cast out of 1:15 alloy, shot as-cast at .360", Javelina 50/50 lube. CCI SR primers. Velocity is 1900 fps. Gun: Martini Cadet, 26" barrel (hence the great velocity). Excellent accuracy, no signs of over-pressure (sticky extraction, primer flattening, etc.), no leading. It's the load I use when hunting with this rifle.

Second favorite is the same bullet and 15.0 grains Li'l Gun, CCI SR primer, same bullet as above (but 1:20 alloy). Very accurate and 1700 fps. It's the load I shoot the most in this rifle.

[Elpatoloco]

For what it's worth, I load 19 grains 1680 and the RCBS 200 RFN GC cast out of 1:15 alloy, shot as-cast at .360", Javelina 50/50 lube. CCI SR primers. Velocity is 1900 fps. Gun: Martini Cadet, 26" barrel (hence the great velocity). Excellent accuracy, no signs of over-pressure (sticky extraction, primer flattening, etc.), no leading. It's the load I use when hunting with this rifle.

Second favorite is the same bullet and 15.0 grains Li'l Gun, CCI SR primer, same bullet as above (but 1:20 alloy). Very accurate and 1700 fps. It's the load I shoot the most in this rifle.

Are you loading that in a 350 L or 357 Max?

Just cauggt a break in Duck hunting action. Going to try that load this afternoon If I can get some put together

[20:1]

Lyman 358627 data should work for lead. It's a bit heavier at 215 gr but Lyman data will be pressure tested.

[Elpatoloco]

I am loading for the 350 Legend. Not a 357 Maxi.


I ran my first ladder of loads across the new chrono today. I seated the slug to 2.165. Used a ladder of 21 up to 23 gr of 1680. All loads showed Zero pressure signs in my gun.....and functioned flawlessly.

Velocities were 1607 on up to 1790. Greatest accuracy was at 22 gr.

These loads may not be safe in anyones gun. They run fine in mine and smack steel plenty good out to 150 yards. Should do fine on feral swine.

No idea what the percentage of case fill is. Runs like a top.

I will use these on 50 to 75 yard shots on feral swine with night vision. Cannot wait to get some more loaded up and try them out on some pork.

Anyone have QL that can approximate pressures that I am running? Case fill amount?

Im gonna stick with 22 gr and let er rip....if no one post any insane pressure numbers that I may have crossed.

[Elpatoloco]

Bore came mirror clean with 1 patch of solvent, 1 pass with a brush, and 1 dry patch. Stoked!

[20:1]

I am loading for the 350 Legend. Not a 357 Maxi.

My apologies, I thought I was responding to the first sentence in your opening post: "Can someone point me in the direction of some printed data for a 200 gr cast in 357 MAX?"

My mistake.

[Elpatoloco]

My apologies, I thought I was responding to the first sentence in your opening post: "Can someone point me in the direction of some printed data for a 200 gr cast in 357 MAX?"

My mistake.

No Sir, You had it correct. There is virtually ZERO data for the 350 Legend and cast bullets. Most guys use 357 Maximum data for their starting loads. You gave EXACTLY what I was asking for. Much Data for the Maximum calls for between 21 to 23.2 gr of the powder for the Maxi. I just duplicated it and have no need to "push" the envelope with this round. With the speeds that I am getting, I know it will do what I ask of it.

I'd now just like a little reassurance from those that load the Legend, that I didnt push it too far. I believe I am well below the limits by 15k psi, but unsure as it is speced at 55k

[P Flados]

Quickload (QL) is not known to be great for raw pressure or velocity predictions when it comes to straight wall cartridges.

I like trying to match pressures to velocities rather than charges to pressure given "batch variation" concerns with powders.

It helps when you have plenty of published load data with resultant pressures to "benchmark" the software. Not the case for 350L.

The only published load data with pressures that I found was Hodgdon data. The only tested bullet also in QL was the 170 Hornady bullet, but they did not test 1680 with this bullet. I tried matching up QL with the published data. First I had to adjust case volume to 39 gr of water to get CFE BLK and 4227 to show uncompressed with starting loads and compressed with the max charges as shown. Then I adjusted charges to get the published pressures. In this configuration, QL reported velocities around 20 to 30 fps above published results (not a bad match) for 4227 and H110.

Assuming you have a 16" barrel and that your bullet matches the RCBS 35-200 length (0.900"), I found that when I plugged in 1820 fps (your 1790 fps plus a 30 fps offset), I get a pressure of 36,600 psi using AA1680.

The above approach however does not match that well against the Hodgdon load data for 27.2 gr AA1680 and a 180 gr Win bullet. With my best guess stuff plugged in, QL matches velocity pretty good but predicts 44,800 psi where the test data shows 31,000 psi. This is one of those cases where the difference is much more than "typical" or easily explained. The good news is that if this test data was "real", 1680 gives expected velocities, but at lower than typical pressures. If I use this data as a basis, your 200 gr bullet would tend to push pressure up a little (say 2000 psi) but with your max test charge of 22 gr, I would expect your load to have a pressure a good bit less than the Hodgdon load, say 24,000 to 27,000 psi as a swag.

[Elpatoloco]

Quickload (QL) is not known to be great for raw pressure or velocity predictions when it comes to straight wall cartridges.

I like trying to match pressures to velocities rather than charges to pressure given "batch variation" concerns with powders.

It helps when you have plenty of published load data with resultant pressures to "benchmark" the software. Not the case for 350L.

The only published load data with pressures that I found was Hodgdon data. The only tested bullet also in QL was the 170 Hornady bullet, but they did not test 1680 with this bullet. I tried matching up QL with the published data. First I had to adjust case volume to 39 gr of water to get CFE BLK and 4227 to show uncompressed with starting loads and compressed with the max charges as shown. Then I adjusted charges to get the published pressures. In this configuration, QL reported velocities around 20 to 30 fps above published results (not a bad match) for 4227 and H110.

Assuming you have a 16" barrel and that your bullet matches the RCBS 35-200 length (0.900"), I found that when I plugged in 1820 fps (your 1790 fps plus a 30 fps offset), I get a pressure of 36,600 psi using AA1680.

The above approach however does not match that well against the Hodgdon load data for 27.2 gr AA1680 and a 180 gr Win bullet. With my best guess stuff plugged in, QL matches velocity pretty good but predicts 44,800 psi where the test data shows 31,000 psi. This is one of those cases where the difference is much more than "typical" or easily explained. The good news is that if this test data was "real", 1680 gives expected velocities, but at lower than typical pressures. If I use this data as a basis, your 200 gr bullet would tend to push pressure up a little (say 2000 psi) but with your max test charge of 22 gr, I would expect your load to have a pressure a good bit less than the Hodgdon load, say 24,000 to 27,000 psi as a swag.

Thank You again Sir.

[Elpatoloco]

Just thought I'd put this here as well. I gave a buddy of mine a box of 50 of the loads I came up with. That MP slug is a winner. His son took this buck with it yesterday afternoon. Thanks for all the help fellas!

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