200gr cast in 357 Max/350 legend

[Elpatoloco]

Can someone point me in the direction of some printed data for a 200 gr cast in 357 MAX?

I am loading a 203 grain slug in the Legend and wanting to use the Maxi data as a starting point.

All my load data is written on the boxes of handloads, for stuff I currently load for and have settled on.

The 350 is new to me. I lost the majority of my manauls between a divorce and 2 moves. I currently have Lyman's 49th, and a couple of different Lyman cast handbooks. None list data for the 357 Max.

I also have a Lee. It does not list IMR-4227 which is the most appropriate powder that I can get my hands on for the application. I do not want to play with Win 296 with the increased air space between the cases. The Lee lists H 4227 for a 200 gr jacketed slug. No idea if IMR and Hogdon 4227 is the same. Ive never crossed the data for them.

I will Purchase the manual if anyone can point me to it.

Or Shooter's World Blackout Flavor powder. They have data for the 350 in this weight slug on their website.

I suppose the ex-wife needed the literature worse than I did.

Thanks,
Colby

[lar45]

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center has data for a 180 with 4227 powder.
You might be able to drop down a couple of grains and work up. Your seating depth might make a bigger difference than the 20gn of bullet weight.
Also use the search function for the 357 AR Max Rimless , there might be data there for a 200gn cast.

[hc18flyer]

Check out: https:www.reloadammo.com/357max.htm
M.D. Smith's Reloading Pages
hc18flyer

[hc18flyer]

My link didn't work. Google MD Smith's Reloading Pages and you will find it.

[P Flados]

I worked up 357 AR Max loads with 200 gr bullets in a 16" AR. The performance of this round is near identical to the 350L.

There is very little published 200 gr data out there. Just for discussion, I did find the Shooter World data for Heavy Pistol and Black Out at: https://shootersworldpowder.com/reload-data/

I noted that the SW test folks stopped well short of the SAAMI max for the round. The Blackout is "good stuff" and well suited for the 350L, but it is a shame that the test data stopped at 29,000 psi. The HP is on the fast side for a heavy bullet.

For you 4227, Quickload says you will hit max pressure using a 200 cast with just a smidgen of powder compression (102% for IMR). I am giving you the load info in this fashion as there are a lot of variabilities for case capacity, bullet lengths and seating depth. Regardless of seating depth, loading to no more than 100% fill is probably smart for an AR. If you are shooting an Encore or other stout break open, you might go for more.

I tried a number of powders and ended up liking Wc 680 (milsurp version of 1680) best.

[NSB]

https://www.shootersreference.com/re.../357-maximum/#

[Photog]

looking at QL, with a .358 barnes TSX ( I can't find a 200gr lead bullet in QL) at 100% case fill of IMR 4227, you only get 76% burn rate in a 16" barrel. This tell me that 4227 is too slow of a powder. At the above, you get 26kpsi and 1238 fps. again telling me that the powder is too slow. A full case of 296 is 37k psi and over pressure (maybe), and 90% case fill is 27k psi and only 82% burned. the 296 is real peaky in this application, so i would advise against it. 2400 is too fast for a full case.
Running through the powders in QL, the ones that look good at a full case (not going over pressure on a full case and burning better than 90%)
Lilgun and trailboss. I bet 300mp would be right on for best velocity, but will need a bit less than a full case.

This is one of those cartridges in between rifle and pistol and the range of powders is slim.

[stubshaft]

I loaded a number of 200 gr. bullets in my Sillywett shooting days for my 357 Maxi. Here is some of the data from "The Complete Reloading Manual for the T/C Contender".

[Elpatoloco]

looking at QL, with a .358 barnes TSX ( I can't find a 200gr lead bullet in QL) at 100% case fill of IMR 4227, you only get 76% burn rate in a 16" barrel. This tell me that 4227 is too slow of a powder. At the above, you get 26kpsi and 1238 fps. again telling me that the powder is too slow. A full case of 296 is 37k psi and over pressure (maybe), and 90% case fill is 27k psi and only 82% burned. the 296 is real peaky in this application, so i would advise against it. 2400 is too fast for a full case.
Running through the powders in QL, the ones that look good at a full case (not going over pressure on a full case and burning better than 90%)
Lilgun and trailboss. I bet 300mp would be right on for best velocity, but will need a bit less than a full case.

This is one of those cartridges in between rifle and pistol and the range of powders is slim.

Thats pretty disconcerning about the 4227. Ive read how much folks like it in the Max as well as the mag. If it doesnt give satisfactory results, I'll burn it in the mag.

I believe I have enough info to make a start at it.

I have all the 296 I could ever use. I am very skeptical about pulling a load out of the air for it.

Unfortunately the 1680 is no where to be found online or within a 200 mile radius of me as I hit every store I passed with work today.

I do have a bit of 2400 as well.

With all that said, I am not trying to push top end with this round. I believe that is a fools errand and I have more suitable rounds for more thump.
Thank you Gents!

[gumbo333]

Handloader magazine, Dec, 2023, #347 has article on reloading the 350 legend, AR15. I haven’t read the article but unfortunately see data for only jacketed bullets, 125gr, 147 gr, 150 gr, 165 gr & 170 gr. Writer maybe doesn’t know cast exists.

[P Flados]

looking at QL, with a .358 barnes TSX ( I can't find a 200gr lead bullet in QL) at 100% case fill of IMR 4227, you only get 76% burn rate in a 16" barrel. This tell me that 4227 is too slow of a powder. At the above, you get 26kpsi and 1238 fps. again telling me that the powder is too slow. A full case of 296 is 37k psi and over pressure (maybe), and 90% case fill is 27k psi and only 82% burned. the 296 is real peaky in this application, so i would advise against it. 2400 is too fast for a full case.
Running through the powders in QL, the ones that look good at a full case (not going over pressure on a full case and burning better than 90%)
Lilgun and trailboss. I bet 300mp would be right on for best velocity, but will need a bit less than a full case.

This is one of those cartridges in between rifle and pistol and the range of powders is slim.

The RCBS 200 is listed as ".358, 208, RCBS FN GC 35-200-FN". This bullet is listed as 0.900" long. It is a lot like the Lee 200, but my Lee is only 0.83" as cast, or say 0.84" with check. Seating the Lee to the crimp groove gives a 0.35" seating depth. The TSX is a 1.178" long solid copper, so not a good alternate.

My QL evaluation with the Lee 200 showed H110/296/LilGun as best, and then H4227s as next best. IMR 4227, 1680 and several others just below the second group.

For my Lee with a 0.348" seating depth, QL says 23.6 gr of IMR 4227 gives 100% fill, 1900 fps and 44,500 psi.

[mehavey]

I am loading a 203 grain slug in the Legend

Strongly recommend staying away from H110/W296 & Lil`Gun in an AR Legend
(timing/extraction/pressure "quirks")

Norma 200 is absolute cat's meow powder for the 200gr+ Legend (tho' now unobtanium)
But RL7 very very close #2)
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...87&postcount=4

[Elpatoloco]

Strongly recommend staying away from H110/W296 & Lil`Gun in an AR Legend
(timing/extraction/pressure "quirks")

Norma 200 is absolute cat's meow powder for the 200gr+ Legend (tho' now unobtanium)
But RL7 very very close #2)
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...87&postcount=4

Yes Sir, I've seen your posts on other sites.
I believe a lot of factory ammo is too hot as well.
Yesterday afternoon I was at my shop digging around in hopes to find some old manuals. I found a box full of ammo that I had purchased when I got the guns.
I have 7 or 8 boxes of Federal Power points. I bought piles of ammo for the 350 when I got the guns. It was dirt cheap. Anyhow.....I sighted the AR in with the night vision and shot several hogs. Then I noticed all the fired cases were split. About 6 months later, I grabbed up the ammo and went to hunt. None of the rounds would chamber. 85% of them split at the case mouth....right out of the box. I got in touch with federal and gave them the lot #. They told me no known issues and to send them the ammo back. Issued a RGA number and ups shipping label. Ups refused to pick up the package and the only Hub that will accept it is 75 miles away and only receieves packaged between 4 and 6 pm. I never got around within those hours.
I guess I can pull all those slugs, measure them and use or resize them.

[quilbilly]

I have that mold and used it in my 357 Max T/C carbine. It shot quite well accuracy wise but decided to keep the MV down because of the light weight of the carbine which has a very unpleasant vibration (not recoil) at an MV 's over 1700 fps. Using 2400 powder, I loaded it to about 15 gr. of 2400 for an MV of about 1580, adequate for my purposes and more fun to shoot regularly. I don't know if that will work in an AR platform but I suspect it will. The reason the MV of that boolit is higher than you might expect is because Alox lube makes the CB more slippery than jacketed in most cases.

[Elpatoloco]

Well, I lied to you fellas. I only have 6 boxes of Junk Federal ammo. Every single one of them split at the mouth while still in the box. A year after I purchsed them.

The bullets mic at .356.

I may run them through a .355 sizer. Pull the powder. Weigh several and get an average. Pull about a grain off each and load them into good brass.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[Photog]

all right, I found the rcbs boolit in QL. at 203gr and gas checked.
MY go to powders for this are Alliant 2400 (starting load at 12gr) for 1400fps. Thats where is would start, its not a full case, but don't think it makes any difference.
Or Power pistol at 8.0 gr for 1300fps. I found Power pistol will cycle a M1 carbine with 7 gr, so yes there is enough gas (if you have a pistol length tube).
I still don't like the looks of W296. at 17 grains you get 92% burn (which is fine) and 1600fps and 30k psi (which 296 needs to burn). but 1 grain more an you go up to near 35k psi, then 19gr gives you 41.6kpsi (over pressure). thats not a lot of room for error, and QL is NOT perfect, and powders vary a lot.
And then there is recoil of 200gr at those velocities from an AR - ugh!
I got 8 lbs of 296 and still have a hard time finding things to load with it. Its prety much a .30 Carbine only thing for me, but I'm looking at it for reduced 762x39 cast loads, and maybe 30-30 reduced loads, but I still by into the internet lore of the SEE problem.
My .02 is 2400, #9, A4100, 300mp would get best velocities, and Power pistol (or others in that speed)(if it cycles) would be best economy.

[P Flados]

all right, I found the rcbs boolit in QL. at 203gr and gas checked.
MY go to powders for this are Alliant 2400 (starting load at 12gr) for 1400fps. Thats where is would start, its not a full case, but don't think it makes any difference.
Or Power pistol at 8.0 gr for 1300fps. I found Power pistol will cycle a M1 carbine with 7 gr, so yes there is enough gas (if you have a pistol length tube).
I still don't like the looks of W296. at 17 grains you get 92% burn (which is fine) and 1600fps and 30k psi (which 296 needs to burn). but 1 grain more an you go up to near 35k psi, then 19gr gives you 41.6kpsi (over pressure). thats not a lot of room for error, and QL is NOT perfect, and powders vary a lot.
And then there is recoil of 200gr at those velocities from an AR - ugh!
I got 8 lbs of 296 and still have a hard time finding things to load with it. Its prety much a .30 Carbine only thing for me, but I'm looking at it for reduced 762x39 cast loads, and maybe 30-30 reduced loads, but I still by into the internet lore of the SEE problem.
My .02 is 2400, #9, A4100, 300mp would get best velocities, and Power pistol (or others in that speed)(if it cycles) would be best economy.

The 350L has a SAAMI limit of 55,000 psi. Yes QL is "not perfect" but folks seem to be able to work up loads in an AR for even wildcats without damaging the guns. If you have a chrono, and you are getting velocities that make sense, this really helps add confidence.

[Elpatoloco]

The 350L has a SAAMI limit of 55,000 psi. Yes QL is "not perfect" but folks seem to be able to work up loads in an AR for even wildcats without damaging the guns. If you have a chrono, and you are getting velocities that make sense, this really helps add confidence.

I have handloaded for 35 years and somehow never acquired a Chrono. I remedied that today.

[P Flados]

Congrats on the new tool.

For what is worth, I pushed 200 grn bullets from my 16" 357 Max AR to just over 2000 fps before dropping back down just a tad. This was with a couple of different powders.

[Elpatoloco]

Congrats on the new tool.

For what is worth, I pushed 200 grn bullets from my 16" 357 Max AR to just over 2000 fps before dropping back down just a tad. This was with a couple of different powders.

1600fps and I will be simply thrilled if it will cycle. Thats just an arbitrary number I am hoping for. Id just like the slug to upset some. Should whistle right through