Might need to stop going to deer camp.

[NSB]

I totally support your gun safety views. Now, I've been wandering around the Rocky Mountain wildness for many years where cell phones do NOT work, packing horses or chaining up and climbing two tracks without company, then going into timber with little more than a map with an X for where I'll be and when I'll be back (usually several days) for my wife, so going to a treestand in a four-wheeler does not sound like a party event requiring supervision TO ME.

Some cell phones do work in those areas. Apple has added a feature to iPhone 14 and up. Might think about getting one. Expensive? Yes, but what’s your life or someone else’s worth? Just something to think about.

[MaryB]

Last night, just before the end of legal shooting time, the camp owner downed a huge 9 point. I went over after a half hour or so.

Three of us got into the Ranger SxS to go see the kill and take pictures. I got in the back and did not check the seat…it was dark as well. I sat on something. Reaching down it was the gun used to harvest the deer. Reached over and opened the action. It was loaded. I did not check if the safety was engaged.

I cleared the gun and took it to the cabin. I did not want to make a scene while everyone was celebrating and high-fiving.

The owner left this morning and will be back on the 30th. I will talk to him about my concerns.

Frankly, I have steadily lost interest in deer hunting. At 73, the 25 lbs of meat is not worth the cost or effort. Told the camp owner a few weeks ago this would likely be my last year hunting. It seems God is sending me messages. Three safety incidents are too many to ignore.

25 pounds? How tiny are your deer??? Typical here is 125-200 pounds... fat corn fed deer here...

[Good Cheer]

Don, you and I have a LOT in common. I’m called “Mr. Safety”. I could write a book on what I’ve seen hunting the last 62 years (I’m old but still hunting and fishing). I’ve seen guys have AD’s inside club houses with their “unloaded” shotguns and the room was full of people. I had a friend die hunting alone when he fell from a treestand (boards nailed into a tree). He wasn’t missed for three days and his wife called the game wardens. Had a closed coffin due to animal damage to the corpse.
I literally could write a book on more and more of these things. I get a lot of heat about it, but I know from experience I’m right. I was hired part time a couple of years ago by a manufacturing company here in WNY that was on OSHA’s “watch list” for way too many accidents. I worked for them for eighteen months with ZERO accidents. They told me thanks, gave me a bonus, and one month after leaving they had a serious head injury because everyone stopped following the rules after I left. They wanted me back. I declined because it wasn’t upper management’s culture to do the right thing. They wanted a sheriff, not a culture change. You’re doing the right thing, don’t stop. Your life might depend on it.

There's a pretty good commentary on civilization in there.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Wife has an iPhone 14, no it does not work in many, many places in Wyoming. There are places where it works, drive a mile or three here and there, maybe, but nothing truly reliable for 'everywhere'. Lived in or near the Rockies since 1977, still many places without RELIABLE cell phone service, no matter what the phone companies say. There are satellite phones that USUALLY work, pricey with expensive subscriptions, a person just learns how to survive without holding hands, not being reckless, paying attention to details. Cell phones did not exist much before the 90's, we did not stay out of the mountains because we could not call for help. Lions and bears, oh my.

[Minerat]

Our rule is no loaded long guns in camp, including in the magizine, even blind mags. Pistols stay in holsters unless needed or being cleaned. When younger I did a lot of pheasant hunting, in Colorado you can have an unloaded gun in a car/truck if no shell is in chamber, magazines loaded OK. The great thing about the Browning A5 was the mag lockout. One of my buddies had a hole in the passenger floor board of his old pickup from an unloaded shotgun.

Sticking to your principals may be hard, especially when others seem to have little regard for safety. Maybe when you refuse to be around them they will change their attitude towards safety if they value your companionship.

[NSB]

25 pounds? How tiny are your deer??? Typical here is 125-200 pounds... fat corn fed deer here...

In 62 years of deer hunting in NY, PA, Mi, and OH, the average amount of meat from the vast majority of the 200+ deer I’ve harvested have yielded 40-45 lbs of meat. Some of the really big ones have given up 60-70 lbs of meat…..those are pretty rare. Very, very few hunters actually weight their deer. They use a guesstimate to determine their size. They are almost always wrong. I’ve spent enough time at deer check weight stations to verify my comments.

[Slugster]

I allow a family friend and his wife to hunt my property. They are both very safe with their firearms and follow basic safety, plus my rules. I trust them and that is not an easy thing for me. Used to be a member of the large range that was local to me. Member for over 20 years. Quit after being witness to way too many stupidities. Have my own 100 yard range now but sure do miss being able to shoot 400 yards at the other range.
Have heard that that range has RSO's now, but that they really are nazis and will dress you down or escort you to your vehicle in a new york minute for an infraction of the safety rules. Good for them!

[M-Tecs]

a person just learns how to survive without holding hands, not being reckless, paying attention to details. Cell phones did not exist much before the 90's, we did not stay out of the mountains because we could not call for help. Lions and bears, oh my.

A little common sense goes a very long way in regard to self-preservation. Same for accurately assessing your abilities or lack of abilities. I know people that really should not cross the street by themselves and others that are fine working by themselves for extended time periods in very remote areas. Others flat out amaze me. Specifically, I know a couple of special force types that would spend months in Afghanistan mostly by themselves with nothing more than the equipment they packed in on horses or mules. That is well beyond my abilities and comfort level.

[pietro]

.


IMO, ONE safety incident is one too many, nevermind three.

You can only die one time..........


FWIW, long ago I went hunting deer with guys like that........... ONCE !

I never hunted with them again.

Do what ya gotta do

.

[M-Tecs]

Some cell phones do work in those areas. Apple has added a feature to iPhone 14 and up. Might think about getting one. Expensive? Yes, but what’s your life or someone else’s worth? Just something to think about.

Still need line of sight to the satellite. My AK buddy uses a Garmin Inreach Personal Locator Beacon. In the area he is it may take several hours before a satellite is in position to receive a signal. Technology is get better but it's still not 100%.

Apple Snapdragon Satellite.

https://www.androidauthority.com/wha...llite-3310908/

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-64182383

https://www.thestar.com/business/in-...%2014%20models.

I do know that in remote AK Sat phones are not 100%.

https://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/...ridium%20phone.
A satphone is currently the device of choice when it comes to emergency communications gear that works anywhere in Alaska. You have two choices when it comes to satphones; the Globalstar system or the Motorola Irridium. There has been some talk about a Globalstar station in Alaska, however at this writing that has not come to pass. Because the Globalstar satellites are in a low orbit relative to the state of Alaska, coverage is reasonable in the southern part of the state, but becomes unreliable farther north. Your best bet is to go with the Motorola Irridium phone

[Handloader109]

We never deer hunted growing up, just too few deer. Did dove hunt. Shotguns always unloaded until we were out of truck and ready to hunt. Unloaded before we got back in the truck. Never loaded in any vehicle. No handguns at that time. I've never hunted with anyone else. But I won't go to the state managed range that is about 15 miles from me. No range officer and just no rules. Went a couple of times and just saw so much stupid stuff that scared me I stopped going. I think that you have to stand your ground, no one but you is ultimately responsible for your safety, and there is no reason to deal with stupidity. And loaded gun in any vehicle is stupidity. Even a 4wheeler. Stupidity. You very well could have shot someone by just sitting on the damn rifle. And I'd close your range. I've a little one, and we are the only ones shooting on it. Let others go elsewhere.....

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Ed K]

And I'd close your range. I've a little one, and we are the only ones shooting on it. Let others go elsewhere.....
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

I'll second that. I'll shoot with my brother and his very responsible 17 year old son and nobody else.

I originally experienced a lot of the crap mentioned previously. 25 years ago bought land and set up a private range. Guys say how "lucky" I am - ha! Anyone can do it if they exercise control over their wallet.

Over the years and after being ordered off my own land by hunters, finding trees cut for shooting lanes and others with steel screw-in spikes, finding game cameras and illegal bait sites I was getting pretty frustrated. The last straw was walking on my land with my black lab and coming across a neighbor (and fire warden and chairman of the town forest committee) who was visibly frustrated by me spoiling his hunt. With a 30-30 in his hands he warned me not to be out on my property at that time of year if I didn't want to be shot.

[MaryB]

In 62 years of deer hunting in NY, PA, Mi, and OH, the average amount of meat from the vast majority of the 200+ deer I’ve harvested have yielded 40-45 lbs of meat. Some of the really big ones have given up 60-70 lbs of meat…..those are pretty rare. Very, very few hunters actually weight their deer. They use a guesstimate to determine their size. They are almost always wrong. I’ve spent enough time at deer check weight stations to verify my comments.

Average hanging weight doe around here goes 150-175, bucks 225++++ record is 500+ pounds... we have BIG deer here!

[MaryB]

I had a ground blind just after a rise the deer were coming over to drop back down into a low spot to run in... sitting on my stool when I here a bullet hit the tree a foot over my head. Dude with an AR-15 came running over the hill after a little non legal button buck... in a shotgun slug only zone. I hollered, he took off for the parking area, I took the shortcut and beat him there and blocked his truck in. And got on the radio and called for backup from a friend.

Dude with AR points it at me telling me to move my truck, friend who was a MN state HWY patrol captain tells him to drop the rifle and get on the ground after coming up behind him. He was carrying his service pistol and his shotgun so not someone to mess with.

AR dude lost his guns, his truck, got fined for trespassing and illegal firearm during deer season... and lost hunting privileges in MN for life.

Same dude shot a guy in WI with an AR a few years later after an argument over a tree stand... He got life in prison...

[M-Tecs]

I had a ground blind just after a rise the deer were coming over to drop back down into a low spot to run in... sitting on my stool when I here a bullet hit the tree a foot over my head. Dude with an AR-15 came running over the hill after a little non legal button buck... in a shotgun slug only zone. I hollered, he took off for the parking area, I took the shortcut and beat him there and blocked his truck in. And got on the radio and called for backup from a friend.

Dude with AR points it at me telling me to move my truck, friend who was a MN state HWY patrol captain tells him to drop the rifle and get on the ground after coming up behind him. He was carrying his service pistol and his shotgun so not someone to mess with.

AR dude lost his guns, his truck, got fined for trespassing and illegal firearm during deer season... and lost hunting privileges in MN for life.

Same dude shot a guy in WI with an AR a few years later after an argument over a tree stand... He got life in prison...

This the guy? http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...untershooting/

[MaryB]

This the guy? http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...untershooting/

Yes that's the scumbag I forgot he killed 6... been a few years and I am not young any more LOL memory... whats left of it!

Around that time frame we had a LOT of problems from Laotians not following game and fish laws... see them fishing and they kept everything in any amount... one dude got busted for 30 northern pike, most were barely 12 inches... another had 200+ walleye in his freezer at home...

[JSnover]

You're not wrong.
"You could get someone killed" just doesn't seem to mean anything to some people. An uncle of mine worked at an indoor range and had a similar problem a long time ago. As he escorted the guy out the door he told him "if you want to kill yourself, go do it at your place, not mine."

[JSnover]

I worked for them for eighteen months with ZERO accidents. They told me thanks, gave me a bonus, and one month after leaving they had a serious head injury because everyone stopped following the rules after I left. They wanted me back. I declined because it wasn’t upper management’s culture to do the right thing. They wanted a sheriff, not a culture change. You’re doing the right thing, don’t stop. Your life might depend on it.

A friend of mine is in the same predicament right now. Culture beats policy every day of the week.

[JoeJames]

"Two days ago, I went to camp after the morning hunt. There was a gun leaning on the side of building with the bolt closed. I opened the bolt a round ejected. The gun belonged to the camp owner/leader. He told me it was safe because the safety was engaged. I gave him that *** look."

That made me think about how certain rifles have been known to fire when the safety was released, like many old Remingtons. That is a dern good reason for them to be kept unloaded, bolt open.

[Winger Ed.]

Remington had a big recall on a bunch of 700s, I think in the 80s after a few accidental killings happened
where someone let off the safety and it fired. (that doesn't say much for people's safety practices either)