Might need to stop going to deer camp.

[M-Tecs]

But the gun safety thing is bothering me. I plan to tell the guys today And that means, an open action and an empty magazine in the gun.

What do you folks think?

I agree with you 100% until I will "make a gun safe" without asking for permission. That will make things worse not better and possibly lead to a fist fight or worse. I am fine with being asked to show "safe". Someone else handling my firearm without my permission not so much. Also states like North Dakota do not have a case law and legally unloaded is an empty chamber even if the magazine is loaded.

Talk to the landowner about setting everyone down and establishing firearm handling safety rules that all can agree upon and follow. As to going out in pairs they are adults. You offered to go with them. Thats all you can do. You have no standing to do anymore since it's not your land.

[crappie-hunter]

Back in the seventies I was a police officer in a small dept. one day in deer season a individual that I new well pulled his car up to the station house very distraught and could barely speak, finally could understand that his deceased brother in law was in the front seat of his vehicle, he and several others were doing deer drives and in their hast to set up another drive same individual failed to unload his rifle while getting the vehicle and accidentally shot his brother in law in the chest causing instant death.
After a thorough investigation by Pa game commission officer and state police it was determined the incident was ruled an accident, don’t remember what the exact charges were but shooter plead guilty and among other sentencing guidelines he lost his hunting privileges for a period of 10 yrs. No jail time as I recall.
Gun safety should be the highest priority when handling a firearm.

[armoredman]

We don't really HAVE a deer season down here, so there really isn't a time when people are out sighting in rifles en masse, but I see enough people being unsafe that it sets my teeth on edge. if people are being stupid at the local outdoor range, I leave. I haven't been hunting in 30 years, but if I went with someone who was unsafe, and won't listen to corrective criticism, I would leave.
Alcohol and firearms are a deadly combination.
No, OP, you should stay safety conscious - no amount of "woulda, shoulda, coulda" will ever bring anyone back from the grave.

[Wayne Smith]

In your original post you stated that a member died falling out of a tree stand. If that did not wake them up to basic safety issues they are probably hopeless cases, who do not want to work at being safe. Yes, I said 'work at', and it needs to be emphasized that safety is work, they have to pay attention and work at being safe. It doesn't happen automatically or easily.

[Polymath]

This fall I called all the "pre-approved hunting parties" that asked for permission to hunt our land. a month ago I cancelled ALL hunting privileges from now on. First time in two generations.
Someone (I think I know who) had been shooting towards the neighbors place. No one got hurt or was there any damage but still not acceptable. The idiot had to shoot across a major highway to do this.

The problem is one guy get permission then bring his buddies who are idiots and then the whole thing goes sideways. Ruined it for everyone. The last guy I got a hold of and cancelled his privilege did not seem surprised at all so I suspect it was his kid or one of his kids friends.
The next time someone starts sniveling about farmers being unfavorable with hunters, I'm telling them this tale.
Is no one teaching their young folk how to respect and hunt properly?

[Polymath]

Back in the seventies I was a police officer in a small dept. one day in deer season a individual that I new well pulled his car up to the station house very distraught and could barely speak, finally could understand that his deceased brother in law was in the front seat of his vehicle, he and several others were doing deer drives and in their hast to set up another drive same individual failed to unload his rifle while getting the vehicle and accidentally shot his brother in law in the chest causing instant death.
After a thorough investigation by Pa game commission officer and state police it was determined the incident was ruled an accident, don’t remember what the exact charges were but shooter plead guilty and among other sentencing guidelines he lost his hunting privileges for a period of 10 yrs. No jail time as I recall.
Gun safety should be the highest priority when handling a firearm.

Just recently heard of a similar thing here for the second time. A guy at the range had a live round stuck in the chamber, drove home with the bolt closed on a live round and hit a bump. Enough for the firing pin to strike the live round and sending it through the roof of truck.
If a person does get a stuck live round, leave the bolt open until you can get to a gunsmith.

[WILCO]

Choose life.

Go when the stupid aren't there.

[country gent]

Any thing mechanical can and will fail usually a the worst time. The only real safety is between your ears. Bolts open, magazines empty or better yet if possible out of the gun. Something to consider is at high power rifle matches an open bolt indicator use is required. A simple flag with a long stem that slides in the chamber with the flag showing out of the ejection port.

Any machine has maim mutilate and murder built into it its up to s to use out heads to control it

[CBH]

Being safety conscious at all times is a rite of passage among true outdoorsman and a badge of honor.

[shooterg]

Our range(450+ members) has a required safety orientation before access granted . I tell every class we have 1% that do not believe any rules apply to them. We don't have full time RSO's but we have enough frequenting the ranges that little misbehaving occurs without consequences. Sometimes a "teaching moment", other times immediate expulsion until the Range Safety Committee decides what to do with 'em.
We do expel those who refuse to obey . Yup, I've been called a range nazi.

[Big Tom]

What you brought up sounds like common sense to me and if they don't get the basics, I would not even want to be around them - at least not when hunting/shooting. Safety first and they can be happy that there is at least one person who cares about nobody getting killed during an activity that is supposed to be fun (and not worrying if somebody accidentally may get shot...).

[firefly1957]

When I was younger deer camp was my grandfathers cabin my grandpa required all guns to be unloaded on the rack and none could come off the rack if we were drinking after the day was done . A cousin refused and was drunk bragging about his gun still being loaded while he took a leak I removed the guns bolt he got so mad he left and thankfully never returned!

[contender1]

Ok, first off,, you said it clearly; "Your range, your rules."

I own a gun range. It's private,, yet we do shoot USPSA matches here. We use the USPSA rule book for most of the safety guidelines. But I also have my own rules. So, when we have a match,, do something that's against the rules,, "Match DQ and no refund."

I'm also a retired NC Hunter Safety Instructor. I'm a NRA Firearms Instructor. I'm a certified USPSA Range Officer. And I'm the recipient of a gunshot wound due to negligence.
I've taught & preached hunting safety, including tree stand falls. I have a lot of info on people shot due to negligence.

They are not accidents,, they are the results of someone's negligence.

In fact, in USPSA,, the most common term is; "Negligent Discharge" instead of "accidental discharge" when a firearm is fired without the action being done on purpose.

The NSSF, the NRA, and just about every firearm organization preaches, teaches, and heavily promotes the basic gun handling safety rules.
Your range,, your rules, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, YOUR LIABILITY!!!!!

And as for the club property,, you are their guest,, and are to be expected to abide by their rules. If they do not have any set, posted and enforced rules,, then if you do enjoy these guys,, maybe you could point out the obvious. Safety SHOULD be all of their concerns. Strongly suggest they look HARD at a few legal terms that could cost them everything,, that is,, if they are the survivors of any unsafe acts.
My lawyer used (2) simple terms that I use often; "Deliberate indifference," and "Negligence." In a lawsuit,, those two things will be used HARD upon EVERYBODY at the camp, club or whatever. And yes,, there will be lawsuits. If a person dies,, the rest of the family WILL sue. If the injured party survives,, yet can't afford their medical bills,, they will sue! Friendship goes out the window when money is involved.

My suggestion is for you to have a CALM,, POLITE,, yet firm discussion with the club/property owner about HIS liability. In a polite fashion,, point out how he will be the one to lose the most of anyone gets injured or killed. Not just monetary, but up to the possibility of jail. Offer to HELP teach safety & SUGGEST that all members of the camp take a mandatory class on safety. See if you can get a lawyer to help explain the way the legal system will go after all of them if something happens.

At my range,, all shooters are required to read a copy of MY rules,, and sign that they have read them and will abide by them. Yet,, even my lawyer has stated it's not going to stop a lawsuit from being filed,, just assist in the long term of my expensive legal defense. And I could STILL lose a case or have to "settle out of court."

The best thing is to try HARD to be polite in explaining that we live in a different world now,, and people do sue for everything nowadays. Plus,, calmly point out the fact that people are killed all the time by negligent acts with a firearm. Heck, I just heard on the TV,, on a news program,, where a 3 year old got his mothers gun out of her purse, and shot his 2 year old sibling, killing him. Mother to be charged in that case.

I understand you enjoy a lot of the guys company, and want to remain friends. But it's HOW you approach the whole safety issue that can either make or break the friendships. Explain how they can lose the privileges of the use of your range due to unsafe actions. Explain how you do not want to be the one to see a friend die on your property due to another person's failure to be safe. And point out that you will join a lawsuit against someone breaking safety rules if someone gets hurt.

I do that all the time.

My range, my rules, and my liability. I don't want to lose my property, pay huge legal fees, or most importantly see anyone hurt due to unsafe acts.

[MaryB]

When I deer hunted we unloaded all guns before getting int he truck, after unloading passed it to a friend next to us to be double checked, then they went in a case for the drive to the next spot or back to base camp. We had one guy object to this. We took his gun away form him, unloaded it. Put it in the case and dropped him off at his house. He was never allowed to hunt with us again.

[M-Tecs]

When I deer hunted we unloaded all guns before getting int he truck, after unloading passed it to a friend next to us to be double checked, then they went in a case for the drive to the next spot or back to base camp. We had one guy object to this. We took his gun away form him, unloaded it. Put it in the case and dropped him off at his house. He was never allowed to hunt with us again.

In MN until recently all non-carry firearms transported in vehicles needed to be unloaded and cased. Recent changes to the MN firearms transportation law allows for transporting unloaded/uncased firearms in certain circumstances.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/97B.045

On a side note, I rarely see unsafe firearm handling with loaded firearms. The exception is LE. They tend to have some serious safety issues on the range.

Most of the accidental shootings I am aware of happened with “unloaded” guns by people who thought they could be reckless with what they thought was an unloaded gun.

I prefer to be around people that “Treat all firearms as if they are loaded” with the normal exceptions for cleaning, maintenance and dry firing.

My carry pistol is loaded 100% of the time except for cleaning and maintenance.

[rbuck351]

I no longer have to go to a public range as I now have my own. It's also been a long time since I have hunted with anyone other than a couple of close friends that also follow the four safety rules closely. In your shoes I would probably just not go to hunting camp with anyone not being a safety Nazi. As far as your range your rules yes. Someone using poor safety practices would be warned not to repeat their actions. If it was a severe violation or they repeated their action, they would be told to leave and they are no longer welcome at your range.

You have too much to lose to allow weapons to be mishandled at your range. Also being around people that will not follow safe gun handling rules is something I won't do. I am old but I would like to get older.

[Wag]

Don, you're doing the right thing. Keep on doing it.

--Wag--

[dverna]

Last night, just before the end of legal shooting time, the camp owner downed a huge 9 point. I went over after a half hour or so.

Three of us got into the Ranger SxS to go see the kill and take pictures. I got in the back and did not check the seat…it was dark as well. I sat on something. Reaching down it was the gun used to harvest the deer. Reached over and opened the action. It was loaded. I did not check if the safety was engaged.

I cleared the gun and took it to the cabin. I did not want to make a scene while everyone was celebrating and high-fiving.

The owner left this morning and will be back on the 30th. I will talk to him about my concerns.

Frankly, I have steadily lost interest in deer hunting. At 73, the 25 lbs of meat is not worth the cost or effort. Told the camp owner a few weeks ago this would likely be my last year hunting. It seems God is sending me messages. Three safety incidents are too many to ignore.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I totally support your gun safety views. Now, I've been wandering around the Rocky Mountain wildness for many years where cell phones do NOT work, packing horses or chaining up and climbing two tracks without company, then going into timber with little more than a map with an X for where I'll be and when I'll be back (usually several days) for my wife, so going to a treestand in a four-wheeler does not sound like a party event requiring supervision TO ME.

[NSB]

Don, you and I have a LOT in common. I’m called “Mr. Safety”. I could write a book on what I’ve seen hunting the last 62 years (I’m old but still hunting and fishing). I’ve seen guys have AD’s inside club houses with their “unloaded” shotguns and the room was full of people. I had a friend die hunting alone when he fell from a treestand (boards nailed into a tree). He wasn’t missed for three days and his wife called the game wardens. Had a closed coffin due to animal damage to the corpse.
I literally could write a book on more and more of these things. I get a lot of heat about it, but I know from experience I’m right. I was hired part time a couple of years ago by a manufacturing company here in WNY that was on OSHA’s “watch list” for way too many accidents. I worked for them for eighteen months with ZERO accidents. They told me thanks, gave me a bonus, and one month after leaving they had a serious head injury because everyone stopped following the rules after I left. They wanted me back. I declined because it wasn’t upper management’s culture to do the right thing. They wanted a sheriff, not a culture change. You’re doing the right thing, don’t stop. Your life might depend on it.