Might need to stop going to deer camp.

[.429&H110]

If we don't teach them, who will?
I have that rifle and I use it to teach the kids.
Seventeen years ago I bought a Rem 700 at Walmart for $200
.223 nylon stock open sights, will bullseye at 100 yards.
Really does have a nice trigger!
But, to teach the kids,
close the bolt on an empty! chamber
flip the safety on
pull the trigger three times
bang the rubber butt on the floor
release the safety
and it usually will drop the pin

They say guns don't kill people, but the 700 has killed a few people.
There are millions of 700s still out there with that trigger.

I get flack for owning the thing, and not changing the trigger out, but it's an eyeopener when it goes click.
For extra excitement it has a closed floor, no magazine, makes old men cringe.
It lives unloaded with the bolt open in the safe.

[Hannibal]

If we don't teach them, who will?
I have that rifle and I use it to teach the kids.
Seventeen years ago I bought a Rem 700 at Walmart for $200
.223 nylon stock open sights, will bullseye at 100 yards.
Really does have a nice trigger!
But, to teach the kids,
close the bolt on an empty! chamber
flip the safety on
pull the trigger three times
bang the rubber butt on the floor
release the safety
and it usually will drop the pin

They say guns don't kill people, but the 700 has killed a few people.
There are millions of 700s still out there with that trigger.

I get flack for owning the thing, and not changing the trigger out, but it's an eyeopener when it goes click.
For extra excitement it has a closed floor, no magazine, makes old men cringe.
It lives unloaded with the bolt open in the safe.

Would you keep a car that jumped into gear if it got bumped a time or 3?

Don't see the difference.

[.429&H110]

My 22 year old Tacoma 5 speed might do that without much bump...
I knew I would get cringe!
That rifle is on at 100 yards, open sights with a great trigger.
My s-i-law covets it upon my demise, soon enough,
he will change the trigger thread the muzzle and scope it for a suppressed varmint gun.
Meanwhile I don't hunt with the thing, it is a training aide,
for people who keep rifles chambered when not pointed downrange.
There are a million Rem 700s out there just like it.
Some might have new triggers, it's hard to know which ones.
Would you assume a Rem 700 is safe or unload it?
I like mine better with the bolt open, YMMV.

[.429&H110]

Thinking about it, there was a cabin in middle of nowhere AK that had my chambered Marlin 450 leaning in the umbrella stand by the door. The Marlin has a cross bolt safety that actually works, over the door in clips was an auto sluggun, wasn't mine, and might not even have been on safe. Everybody had a chambered sidearm, going to the privy, and the Karelian beardog knew his business. Kind of different rules up the Salcha river in bear country with a moose hanging. So YMMV.
Right now, that Marlin is in the safe with its bolt open.

[milsurpcollector1970]

I shoot at a private club with over 1000 members, they are strict there and will kick you out if you violate the rules or give one of the range masters a hard time.

I have no problems with that and everyone knows they are like that so I have yet to even hear about an incident like the ones you all describe.

[JoeJames]

If we don't teach them, who will?
I have that rifle and I use it to teach the kids.
Seventeen years ago I bought a Rem 700 at Walmart for $200
.223 nylon stock open sights, will bullseye at 100 yards.
Really does have a nice trigger!
But, to teach the kids,
close the bolt on an empty! chamber
flip the safety on
pull the trigger three times
bang the rubber butt on the floor
release the safety
and it usually will drop the pin

They say guns don't kill people, but the 700 has killed a few people.
There are millions of 700s still out there with that trigger.

I get flack for owning the thing, and not changing the trigger out, but it's an eyeopener when it goes click.
For extra excitement it has a closed floor, no magazine, makes old men cringe.
It lives unloaded with the bolt open in the safe.

There's a very good book on the subject: unSafe by Design?: Forensic Firearms Investigations
by H.J. Jack Belk and Bill Rogers

He goes into detail about the Remington two part trigger and how for just a few pennies more it would have been safe. But I was glad to read that my Remington 788 was cheap but safe.

[JSnover]

I get flack for owning the thing, and not changing the trigger out, but it's an eyeopener when it goes click.
For extra excitement it has a closed floor, no magazine, makes old men cringe.
It lives unloaded with the bolt open in the safe.

I lived with mine for almost thirty years, knowing it had that fault and just reminding myself to follow the rules and all would be well, and all was well. I liked the factory trigger and didn't plan to change it. Then the covid shutdown happened and I needed a project. As nice as those factory triggers were, there are lots better aftermarket ones that will solve the problem, shoot better, and are easy to install.

[Rapier]

Don, sounds like you are dealing with a group that does not believe in even the basic rules of safe hunting or safe gun handling. Someone is going to get hurt, I would make very sure it was not me.

[ascast]

Don you are correct in actions. Must be a hot button as you have 4 pages of talk in 3 days. I have similar problems with my crew. One spring I found two loaded 12 ga pumps in my shop, rounds in chamber. Both were on a side table. Bullet holes and broken necks are forever.

[dverna]

I sent an email to the camp owner. I offered two suggestions, First, I would not visit the camp during rifle season until after hunting was done and people had put away their guns. Second, no one can use my range unless I am there to supervise and my rules apply.

I will continue to help out at work bees as I have a tractor and some mechanical skills they need from time to time

He is gone for Thanksgiving and we had planned to get together on the 30th. We will talk then.

[MrWolf]

I sent an email to the camp owner. I offered two suggestions, First, I would not visit the camp during rifle season until after hunting was done and people had put away their guns. Second, no one can use my range unless I am there to supervise and my rules apply.

I will continue to help out at work bees as I have a tractor and some mechanical skills they need from time to time

He is gone for Thanksgiving and we had planned to get together on the 30th. We will talk then.

Good for you. Do it on your terms. Just not worth it which is why I prefer to stay home. I have plenty of room. Good luck.
Ron

[WRideout]

My wife and I recently took one of the ladies who cared for my mother-in-law to the pistol range. She owned a new, never fired, Glock 19 as well as a J-frame S&W revolver. At home we went through the safety course, and manual of arms with the Glock. She was very hesitant to operate the pistol until I had shown her how to handle it safely. I provided a few dummy 9mm rounds so she could get used to cycling the action, and advised her to keep the gun handy at home so she could pick it up once in a while and get more familiar. Then we went to the range where she had no trouble at all picking up the basics of shooting the Glock.

If I am a safety Nazi, so be it. I could not live with myself if I did not do a good job at it, and a tragedy occurred.

Wayne

[lightman]

Good on you for being the "Safety Nazi"! Keep on doing what you are doing.

[rbuck351]

I follow the four gun safety rules however many folks don't even know what they are let alone follow them. Because of that, I try not to be around others with guns that I don't know to follow those rules.

I have a very early Rem 700V in 223 that after a few years with my failure to clean the trigger, started to fire when the bolt was closed. It still has that trigger but it does get cleaned more often and has not fired without pulling the trigger since.

Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. The most important of the four rules is the one that is the most common rule broken. I will not be around folks that break this rule. If it is my range they will leave. If it's not my range, hunting camp or what ever, I will leave.

[Recycled bullet]

My wife and I recently took one of the ladies who cared for my mother-in-law to the pistol range. She owned a new, never fired, Glock 19 as well as a J-frame S&W revolver. At home we went through the safety course, and manual of arms with the Glock. She was very hesitant to operate the pistol until I had shown her how to handle it safely. I provided a few dummy 9mm rounds so she could get used to cycling the action, and advised her to keep the gun handy at home so she could pick it up once in a while and get more familiar. Then we went to the range where she had no trouble at all picking up the basics of shooting the Glock.

If I am a safety Nazi, so be it. I could not live with myself if I did not do a good job at it, and a tragedy occurred.

Wayne

^^^this right here is the way. It sounds like you taught her that the Glock safety is in between her ears and gave her the power to see that for herself.

[dverna]

At the meeting I am hoping to have, my approach is to show him how quickly a bolt action is opened….making it safe. Even with a magazine full of cartridges, (which I believe should be emptied), a gun cannot fire with the action open. If he insists an engaged safety is good enough, I am done. It takes less than two seconds to open a bolt and 5 seconds to remove the detachable magazine. I can live with the loaded magazine in the gun even though I know it is wrong.

I have been accused of creating drama and spoiling his camp experience but it was my butt sitting on a loaded rifle. BTW, the night the loaded gun was left on the seat of the Ranger, a 10 year old and 3 year old boy came to the camp. If the gun had been left there, who knows what might have happened. The 10 year old knows guns…the 3 year old…not so much.

I cannot tell from 10 feet away if a safety is engaged. I will not trust a safety anyway. I can tell if the action is open from 30 feet away. If asking to invest less than 10 seconds to be safe is creating drama, there is a lack of common sense.

Are there any words of wisdom you guys can share to help me make my point?

I was wrong to open the bolt on the gun standing against the wall. I had to open the action on the gun nestled against my posterior.

[curiousgeorge]

Don,
Stick to your guns, but for the sake of your friendship with the other parties, be prepared to meet with resistance and know when it's time to associate less with the group. Your last post above is probably your best approach.

I had a 170 acre farm that was a deer and turkey hunters heaven. A river bounded the back side with plenty of small mouth and catfish. Fixed up an old house for a hunting camp and had friends come to deer hunt on a regular basis. But my rules were the rules and had to be obeyed. No loaded guns in the house was first and foremost. No drinking unless all weapons were cleared and put in the gun cabinet in the back room. No weapons to be even in the rooms where we ate, slept, and socialized. One of my nephews showed up in the middle of the night one deer season and had been drinking. I took his rifle and locked it in the trunk of my car. The next morning when we were all leaving for the stands, he still wasn't sober, so back to bed he went and all weapons were removed from the house and locked in vehicles. Not one of the other hunters wanted to risk a half sober person with access to a loaded gun in their presence. I didn't ban him from the farm, but he got the point pretty quick when he wasn't allowed to hunt and discovered he was on clean up duty that weekend.

I truly feel your pain and hope you can help them to be more safety conscious and still be able to remain friends.

[M-Tecs]

Don you are in a tough spot. Showing him how to operate a bolt gun may come off as condescending? That will not help.

If you guys are friends, I would simply request (out of respect to you) that he requires chambers to be empty and bolts open in camp and in or on vehicles. If you are not friends not much you can do other than stating if the safety standards don't improve you will stop hunting with them AND you will stop any assistance you are providing as a worker bee/neighbor. Without negativity consequences people rarely change. If it was me that would include access to your range.

From your other posts it sounds like your land is adjoining or located very close. Is it within rifle range for a stray round? That would be about 3 miles.

For whitetail hunting there is no legitimate reason a round chambered in camp or in vehicles. If they can't show you enough respect to make the firearms safe around you and your property you are just being tolerated and used.

[MaryB]

We had 1 exception to a loaded shotgun(slug only where I am) in the house during deer season. Whoever drew the long straw and got the cozy seat by the upper deck patio door. It looked down on a ravine deer used to get to the creek. Sit in a nice soft chair with your sleeves rolled up, stocking feet, shotgun leaning on the wall by the door loaded with safety on. NO kids allowed in the house during the day, at night they would come to eat with us and see everyone but then guns were all in the gun room after cleaning and oiling, they usually needed to dry out so they didn't ice up the next morning. Fun and joy of hunting in southern MN early November! Often had fog or drizzle during the day, guns took a beating. One year freezing rain really made things suck, I pulled the trigger on a nice buck to only hear "click" because the firing pin was frozen solid in ice!

[MrWolf]

Don you are in a tough spot. Showing him how to operate a bolt gun may come off as condescending? That will not help.

If you guys are friends, I would simply request (out of respect to you) that he requires chambers to be empty and bolts open in camp and in or on vehicles. If you are not friends not much you can do other than stating if the safety standards don't improve you will stop hunting with them AND you will stop any assistance you are providing as a worker bee/neighbor. Without negativity consequences people rarely change. If it was me that would include access to your range.

From your other posts it sounds like your land is adjoining or located very close. Is it withing rifle range for a stray round? That would be about 3 miles.

For whitetail hunting there is no legitimate reason a round chambered in camp or in vehicles. If they can't show you enough respect to make the firearms safe around you and your property you are just being tolerated and used.

Agreed. If he is a friend then talking and not showing is the best move. Either way accept the fact things will probably change. Good luck.
Ron