Might need to stop going to deer camp.

[dverna]

I have had two incidents this year.

The first was on my range. I let the guys use my range to sight in. Three weeks ago was the sight in session. One guy wanted to load his magazine and not take the magazine out when he went downrange to check his target. I told him to single load and keep the bolt open after the shot. He refused to do so. It got heated. I told him, my range, and my rules; and if he would not comply to get off my property and not come back. The others were quiet, but I found out later they told the guy he was wrong when they got back to camp.

Two days ago, I went to camp after the morning hunt. There was a gun leaning on the side of building with the bolt closed. I opened the bolt a round ejected. The gun belonged to the camp owner/leader. He told me it was safe because the safety was engaged. I gave him that *** look.

I have been labeled "the safety Nazi" for a few years. It started when I advised the camp owner he should not go out alone to service the 20+ tree stands. Too easy to slip and fall. They never or rarely wear safety gear. I live beside the camp, and told him to give a call and I would ride along in the SxS in case something happened.

I also suggested if the guys were hunting alone to let me, or someone, know where they are hunting and when they get back to camp. If something happens, I can help or get help.

BTW, last week one of their friends fell out of a tree stand and died.

In the past, being the "safety Nazi" has mostly been good natured ribbing but I am getting tired of it and will not compromise on gun safety.

They are great guys and I enjoy their company. I cannot understand the stubbornness wrt what seem reasonable safety protocols...especially when it comes to gun safety. Am I being a grumpy old fart who is too anal?

I am an "honorary" member and pay no dues. I do not hunt the camp until after opening week when they typically are not there but help out a bit during work bees. I really appreciated being invited and becoming part of the "gang".

But the gun safety thing is bothering me. I plan to tell the guys today I will "make a gun safe" without asking for permission. And that means, an open action and an empty magazine in the gun.

What do you folks think?

[Recycled bullet]

I think you are being unnaturally patient with a hard-headed ignorant person.

You cannot control other people's actions, you most definitely can decide how you respond to the stupidity of others.

It sounds to me they are close losing the right to associate with you if you are even having this thought or discussion, patterns of behaviors must be demonstrated that meet minimum standards of safety.

[Electrod47]

Nothing can replace a strong "sense of self preservation". People, more and more, are rejecting any form of authority. Even if its to their own benefit. Buddy, you deserve better friends.

[Sig]

You can't fix stupid. Everything you stated seems like common sense to me.

[Mr Peabody]

I think you should keep talking LOUDLY about staying safe

[BLAHUT]

I have had two incidents this year.

The first was on my range. I let the guys use my range to sight in. Three weeks ago was the sight in session. One guy wanted to load his magazine and not take the magazine out when he went downrange to check his target. I told him to single load and keep the bolt open after the shot. He refused to do so. It got heated. I told him, my range, and my rules; and if he would not comply to get off my property and not come back. The others were quiet, but I found out later they told the guy he was wrong when they got back to camp.

Two days ago, I went to camp after the morning hunt. There was a gun leaning on the side of building with the bolt closed. I opened the bolt a round ejected. The gun belonged to the camp owner/leader. He told me it was safe because the safety was engaged. I gave him that *** look.

I have been labeled "the safety Nazi" for a few years. It started when I advised the camp owner he should not go out alone to service the 20+ tree stands. Too easy to slip and fall. They never or rarely wear safety gear. I live beside the camp, and told him to give a call and I would ride along in the SxS in case something happened.

I also suggested if the guys were hunting alone to let me, or someone, know where they are hunting and when they get back to camp. If something happens, I can help or get help.

BTW, last week one of their friends fell out of a tree stand and died.

In the past, being the "safety Nazi" has mostly been good natured ribbing but I am getting tired of it and will not compromise on gun safety.

They are great guys and I enjoy their company. I cannot understand the stubbornness wrt what seem reasonable safety protocols...especially when it comes to gun safety. Am I being a grumpy old fart who is too anal?

I am an "honorary" member and pay no dues. I do not hunt the camp until after opening week when they typically are not there but help out a bit during work bees. I really appreciated being invited and becoming part of the "gang".

But the gun safety thing is bothering me. I plan to tell the guys today I will "make a gun safe" without asking for permission. And that means, an open action and an empty magazine in the gun.

What do you folks think?

YOU must continue being the " Am I being a grumpy old fart who is too anal? Time to find safer friends and another place to hunt........
Same at my place; my rules; like it or leave......

[Hickok]

I totally agree with you Dverna.

Once that bullet goes out the barrel, no amount of "I'm sorry", "I didn't mean to" can ever call it back!

I made a deer hunter clear his gun before giving him a ride in my jeep CJ5 some years ago. He had a shocked look when I told him that, but this was the option, cleared rifle or NO ride!

[ShooterAZ]

People get killed every year because of the very things mentioned by the OP. Most aren't "gun accidents" at all, they are due to downright negligence. I have a long time friend who I had to tell that I'm not going to shoot with him any more because he was not being safe. I would not back down on gun safety, never ever. If the "gang" doesn't want to enforce safety protocols, I personally wouldn't want to hunt with them anymore.

[Tatume]

Both of my parents fought in WWII, and when I was young calling someone Nazi was serious business. People younger than me often don't have an appreciation of what my parents generation lived through.

At my local club we have rules that are routinely ignored. It bothers me no end to be down range and hear an action being operated. When questioned, the offender will protest "Oh, it wasn't loaded." How am I supposed to know that from 100 yards away? When other people arrive I usually pack my gear and leave.

Keep up the good work. The life you save may be your own.

[BLAHUT]

both of my parents fought in wwii, and when i was young calling someone nazi was serious business. People younger than me often don't have an appreciation of what my parents generation lived through.

At my local club we have rules that are routinely ignored. It bothers me no end to be down range and hear an action being operated. When questioned, the offender will protest "oh, it wasn't loaded." how am i supposed to know that from 100 yards away? When other people arrive i usually pack my gear and leave.

Keep up the good work. The life you save may be your own.

amen

[kerplode]

I'm completely over shooting with other people. I'm not going to catch a bullet because some jackwagon thinks it's OK to casually do unsafe things. My last straw with this was having some d-bag start cranking off rounds during a cease-fire while I was downrange checking targets. I yelled at him and he said "It's fine...I'm shooting here and you were way down there." There's no arguing with this level of stupid.

If I show up to the range and somebody is already there, I leave and come back another time. If I'm at the range and somebody else shows up, I immediately pack up and leave.

Gun ownership in this country will be legislated out of existence within the next 10-20 years because the majority of society, and therefore the majority of gun owners today are careless, clueless, useless narcissists who think the entire world revolves around them and they can't be trusted to act in a reasonable manner.

Don - you did the right thing. If I were you, I would take it a step farther and stop allowing these idiots on your property all together (and yes, they are all culpable). When one of them shoots themselves or somebody else you're gonna catch a lawsuit.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I feel for your situation, because these incidents are things were people shouldn't get heated. It's makes it even more difficult as you are neighbors/friends with this camp group. If they will not listen to reason, I think it's time to break ties with them...but that's a tough decision for sure.

[Hannibal]

Sounds to me like some guys who are too proud to admit a mistake and accept constructive criticism.

I hunted a friend's property for a couple of years. He was a moron concerning gun safety. Later turned out he was a moron concerning a bunch of other things too.

I don't even talk to that guy anymore even though I see him almost every day at work.

[Winger Ed.]

Maybe after they go to a few more of their friend's funerals they'll see your concerns in a more favorable light.

[DougGuy]

They likely have never been on a public range where they are taught range etiquette for one, and weren't taught range safety, weren't taught what you can and cannot do when the RO calls COLD RANGE.

They need a safety course that they can show proof of completion. A hunter safety course teaches SOME range etiquette via the parts of the course on gun safety.

If I was a land owner and people wanted to hunt or shoot, I would say show your proof of hunter safety course before I would give them permission to come on my property with a firearm.

NC law states that you can hunt on private land with written permission from the owner or caretaker of the property. It is your responsibility to carry that permission on your person while you are on private property.

[HWooldridge]

Better safe than sorry - it’s that simple. With regard to the question of letting someone know whether they are in or out of camp, we used to have two racks of nails with brass coins suspended on each one. When you left camp, you moved the coin to the other side. Was easy to glance at it and know who was still out hunting. If someone came back and left for town, the coin was moved to the “In” side.

[farmbif]

when accidents happen they usually happen very quickly and there is no turning back the clock. I have had too many life changing accidents in my time. I dont care what anyone else thinks if they want to be reckless and I take any and all safety precautions I can. I may never again go to a public range or hunting camp. one of the reasons I bought this rural place I have my own shooting range and plenty of acres to hunt on with plentiful game and dont have to worry how someone else's carelessness might cause injury or death.

[dverna]

Guys, thanks for sharing your views.

Everyone at camp is a good person. It they were jerks, it would be easy to walk away. We drink more than we should but only after the guns are put away. A new member thought it would OK to take a beer or two to the blind and not one member supported him. We never mix guns and alcohol.

The camp owner gave me 3/4 of acre of land when I raised concerns about a possible easement issue. Not many people would do that for a neighbor.

Like I said..."good people". This is what makes it difficult. Needed to hear what other gun owners I respect thought.

[georgerkahn]

dverna -- I do totally disagree with your referring to yourself as a "grumpy old fart"!!! Other than that -- you are 110% correct in your common sense pro-safe attitude! I have had a bullet whiz by my ear -- probably less than five feet distance, while hunting in the woods. I have seen more than once at the range when a fellow picked up his rifle with a discharge followed by an "oops"! Yours truly -- I am embarrassed to admit it, but it is a true happening -- I took an unloaded Ruger .22 revolver out of the safe to hand to my younger son, and -- force of (good!) habit I opened its gate and twirled the cylinder -- to SEE five unfired .22 lr's in it! (To this day I have no idea how it got into the safe loaded -- but it did! Hey -- I was a NYS Hunter Safety (firearms) instructor for 11 years, too.
One thing I stressed while teaching hunter safety is that EVERY time a bullet is sent down your barrel -- it's impossible to rewind the videotape of time and pull it back.

Re "jerks" at the range, I do not wish a message of communication turning into a social confrontation -- aware that the "jerk" has a loaded firearm in his hands and I'm quite close... Call me a "chicken" -- I generally either move to another range or call it quits for the day.
geo

[jim 44-40]

At my local range,I was glad to see young people out getting fresh air and enjoying the shooting sport.
It was short lived.Most but not all youngsters should have had Dad,Uncle or Grandpa with them to help them along with the Safety part of shooting.I avoid the range pre deer season like the plague