why-the-masses-fail-at-shooting-cast

[mrbill2]

https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/th...shooting-cast/

[Recycled bullet]

I've seen some automotive repairs that look like that

[Kosh75287]

GEE-whiz!!!

[jdgabbard]

I'm not surprised about this at all. I watched a video last night that featured a guy ranting about how everyone's lube recipes are wrong...except for his. And then went on to show off a VERY basic lube recipe that is very close to a recipe I found nearly 15yrs ago to be inadequate for anything but slow pistol rounds. The guy in the video also went out of his way to make several jabs at other's and their loading techniques....

Now I'm not saying that he didn't know what he's talking about. But I've found that a great many people involved in the various aspects of shooting sports think they're the subject matter expert, when in reality they don't know what the heck they're talking about. Psychology has a term for this called the Dunning-Kruger Effect (see below). In my experience, there are a LOT of people who claim to know what they're talking about that are residing on Mt. Stupid....

[phantom22]

[35 Rem]

As Jed Clampette would say, "Welllllll Doggies!"

[super6]

That reminds of an old joke, When we can see eye to eye I'm done!

[stubshaft]

When I first started casting and shooting bullets in the 60's there was very little mainstream information available to educate a newbie. Yes, the Lyman manuals were supposedly available, but not in my area.

My first bullets were cast from a Lee 150 gr. 30 caliber mold (that STILL casts great bullets) for my 30/30. I never knew there was such a thing as a "M" die and had no concept of the importance of expanding the case neck and proper neck tension. My loaded ammo looked exactly like the examples in the pictures. Load data was from the old tan colored IMR powder chart and my powder charges were what would be normal for jacketed bullets. Man, I wore out a number of bore brushes out scrubbing lead out of my barrel.

But, through trial and error, I was able to overcome those hurdles and finally manufacture and shoot some accurate cast bullet loads.

[Land Owner]

Many "fail" believing, at first, that the velocity of a cast boolit should be at or about its counterpart jacketed bullet velocity. Max speed is their "thing". The frustration of "slow 'em down", "slug the barrel", "fit is King", and getting the lead out in shooting cast dawns on them later. A little "light reading" about cast boolits will generally dispel the myths...but who reads anymore?

[jimb16]

The more I learn, the more I need to learn! Every time I think I have something figured out, fate throws another curve my way!

[poppy42]

I find it really amazing how many so-called experts there are out there making YouTube videos.lol The day I stop learning is the day I stop breathing! And just because you’ve been doing something for a gazillion years doesn’t mean that you know what you’re talking about. I have learned from people much older than me, and much younger than me.

[deces]

If by chance that loader is reading this, I have a few words. Don't give up.

[405grain]

I've met people at the range that are astonished that I'm shooting cast bullets. They'll tell me how horribly inaccurate cast bullets are, how they'll smear lead all over inside the bore, and what a mess they are to reload. When I strike up a conservation with them I learn what I already guessed. They only tried using cast bullets once. They don't cast their own, but bought the bullets from an online vendor or from a gun shop. When I asked them if they flaired the neck before seating, or did the seating and crimping as two separate operations I get the blank stare and confused silence. When I ask them what load they were using they tell me it's the same one they use for jacketed bullets. When I ask them it they were shooting gas checked or plain based in their rifle they say "whats a gas check?" Then, and this always happens, when I offer to give them some education about shooting cast bullets, I get cut short with their declaration that cast bullets are crap, and that they'll never use them again. Once, while one of these guys was walking away I asked him what he did to get the leading out of his barrel. He said "I sold the gun."

[NSB]

As a current “non caster”, I have one question. Now please don’t take this wrong, I’m being sincere. What have these “masses” failed to do? I tie my own trout flies and others buy them. We both catch trout. The differences is that they don’t sit at the table hour after hour tying flies and I do. They don’t buy expensive equipment (good hooks, vices, hackles, thread, various tools, etc) and end up with the same results. What is better about cast bullets over jacketed bullets in the end? Again, I tie flies and you guys cast bullets. So, are the flies/bullets better when we make them? I say “no”, but it’s fun to catch a trout on my own fly. It’s not a bigger trout, a better trout, or a better caught trout. It’s just a trout. How about cast bullets? Same end result? Maybe a lot of people just don’t want to put the time in with no better end result.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

Many "fail" believing, at first, that the velocity of a cast boolit should be at or about its counterpart jacketed bullet velocity. Max speed is their "thing". The frustration of "slow 'em down", "slug the barrel", "fit is King", and getting the lead out in shooting cast dawns on them later. A little "light reading" about cast boolits will generally dispel the myths...but who reads anymore?

Yes, this. I have a 44WCF load that I can shoot until the barrel is very hot on my rifle. Basically a case full of Reloder 7 and a 30-1 alloy bullet. No leading in the bore, zero, nada , zilch with a 1,400fps muzzle velocity. I have a friend I shoot with at lever action silhouette matches. He will not try cast bullets because he doesn't have time to be scrubbing lead out of his bore after every match. For me casting bullets is another way to make custom ammunition for my firearm and intended purpose.

[Land Owner]

He will not try cast bullets because he doesn't have time to be scrubbing lead out of his bore after every match. For me casting bullets is another way to make custom ammunition for my firearm and intended purpose.

He has not discovered that "Fit is King" in shooting cast boolits, or he would have learned - there is no leading.

I too appreciate(d) the discovery of casting my own as I could "shoot all day" for practically nothing, compared to jacketed bullet cost, primer and cases being equal. Powder is a little less in cast. Velocity is less, but impact is important to a meat hunter, so a large meplat makes sense.

Meplat (from the French word " méplat " meaning "flat surface of a cylinder") is the technical term for the flat or open tip on the nose of a bullet.

Hunters killed animals (and one another) for "a century" with lead and lead-alloy boolits before the invention of jacketed bullets.

[dondiego]

As a current “non caster”, I have one question. Now please don’t take this wrong, I’m being sincere. What have these “masses” failed to do? I tie my own trout flies and others buy them. We both catch trout. The differences is that they don’t sit at the table hour after hour tying flies and I do. They don’t buy expensive equipment (good hooks, vices, hackles, thread, various tools, etc) and end up with the same results. What is better about cast bullets over jacketed bullets in the end? Again, I tie flies and you guys cast bullets. So, are the flies/bullets better when we make them? I say “no”, but it’s fun to catch a trout on my own fly. It’s not a bigger trout, a better trout, or a better caught trout. It’s just a trout. How about cast bullets? Same end result? Maybe a lot of people just don’t want to put the time in with no better end result.

The loading of the cast bullets in the picture is the issue. The guy who loaded them does not know how to load cast. He didn't flare the cases prior to seating the bullets. No one is claiming that cast are better than jacketed, although they are just as suitable and accurate in some cartridges and rifles. Cast is definitely less expensive than jacketed. It is a hobby just like fly tying. I pursue both hobbies myself.

[405grain]

NSB: your question is easy to answer. What the masses have failed to do is read the instructions. But, not only that, have also failed to take advise. And when their efforts don't work they make a blanket condemnation of the whole process, ignoring the fact that thousands of other people are having success with it.

Lets put this in fly tying terms. Bubba decides to go fishing. There is a mountain of information in books and the internet all about fly fishing, but Bubba ignores all of it. Instead he goes to the arts & crafts section of a Walmart and buys a pack of colored feathers. Then he superglue's some feathers to a hook. Bubba doesn't bother learning how to cast with a fly rod, so he ends up catching branches from the bank and scaring off fish. In the end he gets frustrated and doesn't catch anything. After this one single experience he loudly proclaims to anyone that will listen (and many that don't want to) that fly fishing is a useless waste of time, and that only losers would keep doing it because it obviously can never catch a fish.

Now just substitute bullet casting for fly fishing and you'll see the problem.

[jdgabbard]

As a current “non caster”, I have one question. Now please don’t take this wrong, I’m being sincere. What have these “masses” failed to do? I tie my own trout flies and others buy them. We both catch trout. The differences is that they don’t sit at the table hour after hour tying flies and I do. They don’t buy expensive equipment (good hooks, vices, hackles, thread, various tools, etc) and end up with the same results. What is better about cast bullets over jacketed bullets in the end? Again, I tie flies and you guys cast bullets. So, are the flies/bullets better when we make them? I say “no”, but it’s fun to catch a trout on my own fly. It’s not a bigger trout, a better trout, or a better caught trout. It’s just a trout. How about cast bullets? Same end result? Maybe a lot of people just don’t want to put the time in with no better end result.

And I'll add, in addition to the responses from others, that in may ways the quality of a mass produced boolit is not going to be to the level of a home cast. The fact is that many times compromises are made where it concerns commercial cast. A good example of this is 10-15 years ago when the only cast boolits you could get were cast with essentially straight Lino or #2, sized to exact bore diameter, lubed with a very hard wax lube that didn't do it's job and only smoked, and were half beaten to hell and back when they arrived at your door. Sure, there are a LOT more options for commercial cast today, and many of them are fine boolits. But they still do not give you the quality and flexibility of a home cast boolit.

All the other stuff about taking the time learning the hobby and earning your knowledge are also factual. Cast is a VERY different animal to jacketed. It has it's own rules, tricks, and peculiarities. It's not necessarily better or worse in many regards. But can under certain parameters exceed jacketed, or even commercial cast, performance. This has been realized by many more shooters in the last 10-15 years with the buying frenzies than had been in the previous 40-50 years. We truly are living in the golden era of cast boolits....

[TNsailorman]

There is an old saying that I think has value in casting also. You get out of something the effort you put into it. Commercial casters have to maximize their time in order to make a profit. That can lead to shortcuts and other problems. Home casters are usually more interested in quality and put more time and effort into their casting. my .02 anyway, james