7/8 oz Lee Key Drive loads?

[ThaDave]

Howdy y'all, its been a while, life got busy and only recently got back into casting lead again.

I have some pure lead 7/8 oz Lee Key Drive and Lee .690 Cal Round ball (LRB) that I cast up and cant really find a lot of load data for them.. Rifle and pistol reloading I have experience with but shotgun is a little different. So far, Ive had good luck taking bird shot shells cutting open the crimp, dumping the lead bird shot and replacing it with the slugs and LRBs then roll crimping it down. These so far have worked "okay" out of my H&R with a rifled barrel... meaning they are not showing any signs of pressure and group about the size of my fist at 25 yards.

But I'd like to find some places to get load data so reload them without having to keep cutting open bird shot shell.

I currently have a copy of the Lyman 5th edition but there is no mention of these projectiles listed. Is it safe to sub out the published payload for an equal weight of another type as long as it ends up the same length or is that a no-no in shot shells? The Shells I have I don't see listed in the book too much either; they are the Win Super-X that were factory loaded with slugs before getting shot.

[Tatume]

Here you go:

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

Just select your gauge and shell, and you're off to the races!

[foesgth]

If you go to Ballistic Products and check the Load of the Day section they have several loads.

[longbow]

Your mould should have come with the load data below:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/att...5&d=1520587955

Here is a link to the BPI data:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/load14_04_25.htm

They have more data if you look for it. BPI also has load data for 0.690" RB's. For rifled gun you will have to find wads that will give a good fit to grip the rifling without shearing petals with the 0.690" RB's. Personally I have been largely unsuccessful using 0.690" RB's in smoothbore. Most wads I have tried are too thick so petals shear and the few I have found that do fit reasonably wound up with sheaed petals anyway I think becvause the plastic was to flimsy. I believe Federal wads are tougher plastic but I have not tried them.

Smaller round balls of 0.662" and 0.678" in wads have worked well for me in smoothbore but again, fit matters so you have to select wads accordingly and/or patch the ball to fit snuggly in the wad which is of course even more important in a rifled gun because the wad has to engrave and transfer spin to the ball.

Another RB option is 0.735" which Lyman sells. MP Molds sells a 0.732" RB mould as well. I have very good results using 0.735" RB naked over a hard card wad column in both snoothbore and rifled gun.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

The BPI data above is great, but I'd like to include the one I use which is considerably milder than above. AA Hull, Cheddite Primer, 18 gr Green Dot, Blue Claybuster Slug Wad, 1/8 card under the 1 oz. Lee Slug, Fold Crimp. Same Load for Round Balls and Lyman Slugs

This is essentially my standard Trap Load with the Slug substituted for the shot. Works great with a Rifled Choke Tube. See "What I did to my Shotguns" Sticky at the top of this forum for more info.

This was all came up with after touching off a Federal 1 oz high base Slug at 1610 fps! I wasn't' ready for it, and it hurt me, so I vowed to build up some round ball loads based on my existing Trap Loads. The other slugs work real well. Left target is 4 Lee Slugs thru one hole and a Windage correction to the center. Second Target is 3 Lyman Slugs thru same hole with two close flyers.

These are the cheapest Slugs you can load ,and they are great for plinking, 3 gun shoots on Steel Targets, and smaller big game. They are running about 1100-1150 fps. Please note: You need to use a fold crimp on these.

Randy

[longbow]

Randy brings up a very good point! Most "slug load" data is intended to get the highest velocity for a given slug so can be brutal to shoot. Most will let you know that you have pulled a trigger with unpleasant recoil!

Using Randy's load or any regular birdshot target load then subbing the slug for equal weight shot is much more pleasant to shoot. You may have to adjust the wad column to suit the slug but other than that it is a simple way to get functional non-shoulder punishing slug loads plus there is lots of load data.

Longbow

[Barry54]

I promptly knocked the center plug off my Lee 7/8 slug mold. They were sticking with mystery melt, and I was aggravated with it. One day I’ll drill and tap it to a larger size.

Does “pure lead” as recommended in the instructions help with the sticking? Or is it just to make a better hunting projectile?

[longbow]

My old style Lee 1 oz. mould was prety good when I got it. I had a bit of sticking but not much. A light deburring of the core pin solved what little sticking I was experiencing.

My new style 7/8 oz. mould on the other hand had serious sticking problems so I took it apart and the core pin had significant burrs on it so I used fine emery and lightly went over the drive key slot to remove burrs. That fixed it and was easy to do, especially since the new style mould uses a screw to hold the core pin in place instead of a riveted over pin that is part of the core pin, which is how the old style were made.

Both drop slugs as well as a Mihec mould drops boolits now... slugs just drop out.

I use ACWW for my slugs mostly because I have a bunch of wheelweights and not much pure lead. I think there are two main reasons Lee recommends pure lead ~ 1) pure lead will squish easily if the slug is shot through a choke; 2) pure lead will likely "slug up" at firing to fill the bore in the wad. The old Buckbuster slug actually stated that in their reloading data. That is to start at a given powder charge then increase until the wad petals sheared then back off a few grains and that is your best load. Of course the petals have to shear before you reach max powder charge/pressure for that to work. I am sure the Lee slugs will obturate/slug up some if cast from soft lead. That is a good thing for fit but not necessary (in my opinion anyway).

Longbow

[ThaDave]

The BPI data above is great, but I'd like to include the one I use which is considerably milder than above. AA Hull, Cheddite Primer, 18 gr Green Dot, Blue BPI Slug Wad, 1/8 card under the 1 oz. Lee Slug, Fold Crimp. Same Load for Round Balls and Lyman Slugs

This is essentially my standard Trap Load with the Slug substituted for the shot. Works great with a Rifled Choke Tube. See "What I did to my Shotguns" Sticky at the top of this forum for more info.

This was all came up with after touching off a Federal 1 oz high base Slug at 1610 fps! I wasn't' ready for it, and it hurt me, so I vowed to build up some round ball loads based on my existing Trap Loads. The other slugs work real well. Left target is 4 Lee Slugs thru one hole and a Windage correction to the center. Second Target is 3 Lyman Slugs thru same hole with two close flyers.

These are the cheapest Slugs you can load ,and they are great for plinking, 3 gun shoots on Steel Targets, and smaller big game. They are running about 1100-1150 fps. Please note: You need to use a fold crimp on these.

Randy

So one of the things I wondered about was the safety of using a different shell than what the load calls for. Swapping out bird shot for a slug is an old trick and that's what makes me think it would be safe to swap one shell for another and then work up slowly with the powder charge like I'd do with rifle or pistol reloading.

I recently had a .410 with a corroded case head fracture when it fired, the gun was completely destroyed and I got very lucky to only have a busted lip and a couple scratches (eye pro folks wear it), I can go into more detail but that is a story for another thread. So long story short I just want to make sure what I plan on doing is safe.

I have a good number of Winchester Super-X shells that I'd like to reuse instead of buying more until I can buy more, if that makes sense.

[longbow]

[QUOTE=ThaDave;5646608]So one of the things I wondered about was the safety of using a different shell than what the load calls for. Swapping out bird shot for a slug is an old trick and that's what makes me think it would be safe to swap one shell for another and then work up slowly with the powder charge like I'd do with rifle or pistol reloading.

NO!!

Shotgun reloading is different and all the components plat a part. Seemingly small changes to components can have large effects on pressure. Shotshell are not all the same design or internal shape or capacity. Basically there are compression formed hulls that are tapered and straight walled hulls that are not tapered and even then within those groups there are different basewads. It all affect how the powder burns.

Simply substituting equal weight payload doesn't change much except in general slugs have less gore friction that birdshot so a slug subbed for equal weight of birdshot is safe and will generate less pressure than the birdshot will.

Changing hull design can significantly affect pressure so don't do it.

The general rule with shotshell reloading is to use published pressure test load data and don't deviate. A simple change of primer can result in pressure increase or decrease of up to 3000 PSI. Not all 209 primers are created equal!

You can certainly drop the powder charge and work back up to the max listed powder charge but you cannot develop a load safely by picking a powder and slowly working up as with metallic cartridge reloading.

Longbow

[ThaDave]

OK so that is what I've been trying to find out.

I've been doing rifle and pistol ammo for many years but only recently got into shotgun reloading. With rifle and pistol it really doesn't matter too much if you use one brand or another but I know that the insides of shot shells are not all the same so that is what I was looking for. Never thought one primer to another could bump or drop the pressure 3K PSI. Going from a 209 to a 209A I know could bump it up, but 3k PSI is more than I would have thought. I'm here to learn so that is good to know

So I guess the follow-on question might be is there a cross reference chart that you could see if an off the shelf shell is a rebrand of another common reloading shell. I've been looking on the BP website but I don't see anything like that. Truth be told it would be in their better interest as a business selling these type of goods to keep that info close to the chest so as not to undermine their own sales.

[longbow]

The best thiing to do is to buy a shotshell reloading manual or two or three or as many as you can! There are so many componets available that it can be frustrating trying to get everything required for a given load.

Unlike metallic cartridge reloading, everything in a shotshell load affects overall performance. For trap/skeet loads ammunition is loaded to a set velocity within safe pressure limits but consistent target velocity is the goal. Pretty much everything in the recipe from hull, primer, powder, wad, crimp and payload affects how things turn out.

Some reading on primers and pressure:

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

Also scroll down about 1/2 way through and you will see how much crimp depth can affect pressure as well... up to 3800 PSI with a deep crimp vs. shallow crimp.

There arew a lot of variables that affect things:

- straight walled hull or tapered hull
- base wad thickness
- primer
- powder (no brainer there)
- wad ~ there are wads for tapered hulls and wads for straight walled hulls, some work in both but there is an effect; cushion leg length and stiffness which also can affect rpessure quite a bit between a long weak cushion leg and a short stiff or no cushion leg
- crimp type and crimp depth.

Most shotshell reloading manuals will show different tyoes of hulls and will likely show equivalents or from the recipes you will see same charge components and pressure. Most manuals will also tell you to use everything as listed in their pressure tested loads and to make no substitutions. When slug shooting it is common to use same weight payload like lee 1 oz. slug to replavce 1 oz. of birdshot. This is safe. Substituting wads is generally ssafe if you sub with a similar wad.

You have to take in to account the volume of the hull and the wad column to get a proper fold crimp. If the wad column is a bit short the crinp may push down and open in the middle letting shot dribble out. If the wad column is a bit too long the crimp may not go deep enough and opens up on you. It has to be very close and that is what the recipes do for you.

Many slugs are roll crimped so there the wad column length doesn't matter as much because you roll a bit deeper or a bit shallower. Than can be done with shot loads too.

Here is some reading on shotshell reloading and hull volumes:

https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/

https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/12-ga-2-75-hull-volumes/

For slug reloading I generally use straight walled hulls and I am not too picky about brand but the wad colum has to fit with a similar cushion leg to the recipe. I often use all hard card wad columns but have pressure tested load data for those. You can't safely take a recipe for a cushion leg wad and repace the cushion leg wad with a gas seal and hard card wads. Pressure will increase and depending on powder it can be significant.

The best way to start is to use published reloading data from a manual or powder manufacturer's site. You will find a very large amount of info for trap/skeet and field shot loads and a fairly small amount of info for slugs... that is high performance slug specific loads. As pointed out above by Randy you can safely use a 1 oz. birdshot load and sub a 1 oz. Lee slug or any other 1 oz. slug that will fit into the wad. You can also cut the petals off a wad and use a full bore slug of equal weight to the birdshot in the recipe. These will be 1150 to about 1300 FPS slug loads where if you look at the slug slpecific load data velociteis tend to run 1400 to 1600 FPS but these will be pushing pressure limits so load to the recipe! Exactly!

Good manuals to have are the Lyman Shotshell Reloading manuals (there are four or five editions, the latest edition would be the best) and Reloading for Shotgunners. I am sure there are others good ones as well. These manuals will show you the hulls and wads and the recipes are all pressure tested.

The powder companies like Alliant, Hodgdon, ADi and others have online load info or downloadable PDF's with both birdshot and slug reloading info. BPI and Precision Reloading have load data. federal has this:

https://www.federalpremium.com/on/de...ading-data.pdf

No slug data in there though unfortunately.

BPI has downloadable data sheets for a variety of slugs including 0.690" RB's for around $1 per sheet. They also have slug and buckshot reloading manuals but they tend to use their components so limited usefulness but good info.

If you keep your eyes open you will also find info like this:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...a-2-shotshell/

So again pressure tested and good to go.

I download anything I find that might be interesting and usable like the Slugs 'R Us data that has disappeared. I am sure Leon will bring it back when he is up and running with the new company.

If it is a reliable source and pressure tested I download it for future reference.

I should quit rambling along here!

The easy approach is to take Randy's advice and use typical shotshell target loads and sub and equal weight slug. This is safe and easy. If you want to have high velocity slug specific loads then use reliable pressure tested slug recipes EXACTLY as shown is my advice.

I should add that if a load recipe shows low pressure like 7,000 or 8,000 PSI then making minor substitutions is not really a big concern because it is unlikely you would wind up with an over pressure situation. You could wind up with a low pressure blooper though. If a load recipe shows 11,000 PSI you do not want to make any changes that could significantly increase pressure like a primer change and extra deep crimp!

Longbow

[poppy42]

Ok BPI is great, as long as you’re willing to buy all their stuff!!! A lot of what you don’t need! In addition be real careful with some of the loads! They are computer generated as to what they should do and some are not tested. I will not recommend another forum on here but I suggest you search around YouTube. There’s a gentleman out there it is quite a lot with buckshot and slugs.

[ThaDave]

^^^^^ See this is the kind of thing I can nerd out on and read over and over until I start to understand these things that I'm trying to learn. solid material from a reputable source. That is what I like to see and follow up on. I have a Lyman 5th edition Shotshell reloading handbook, and maybe I need to reread the first sections again. But I think I got a better understanding from those links than I did reading the book the first time. I don't really care to push a slug as fast as possible, I'd rather shoot it as accurately as possible.

I loaded some shot shells a couple weeks back where I read the load data printed on the bottle of Titewad for a the different recopies listed and settled on 18gr as a low to mid pressure option, used them same Winchester Super-X shells that were already used with buckshot from the factory and adding a pink Claybuster I loaded some CLRB for my BP pistol which equaled just under 1oz and filled the case nicely, crimped it closed and off to the range I went.

These shot well in a smooth bore holding about 4 - 7 inches at 15 - 25 yards respectively and showed no signs of high pressure, extracted easily and where very peasant on my shoulder. Now I'm wondering just how dangerous that actually was.

[longbow]

Probably not dangerous especially if you weren't running a max. powder charge and used an equal weight of shot but you should start with the correct components as listed in the recipe. If what you used matrched the recipe then no problem subbing equal weight buckshot for birdshot but if you used a different hull and wad... and primer? you don't know what the pressure was. By the time you are getting flattened primers or sticky extraction you are way over acceptable pressure.

From the Hodgdon site I get this from what I understand of your description of the load:

LEAD SHOT 1
Manufacturer Powder Primer Wad Grs. Pressure Vel. (ft/s)
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC Fed. 12SO 15.2 9,900 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC Fed. 12SO 16 11,100 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC Purple PC 15.5 7,400 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC Purple PC 17 7,700 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC Purple PC 18.5 9,100 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC Purple PC 20 10,200 PSI 1,290
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC Rem. TGT 12 15.3 8,700 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC Rem. TGT 12 16.5 9,200 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC Rem. TGT 12 17.6 10,900 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC WAA12SL 15.7 8,000 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC WAA12SL 16.7 8,200 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK CCI 209SC WAA12SL 17.7 10,400 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Ched. 209 CB 4100-12B 15.2 7,900 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Ched. 209 CB 4100-12B 16.3 9,000 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Ched. 209 CB 4100-12B 17.5 10,100 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Ched. 209 Rem. TGT 12 15.2 8,200 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Ched. 209 Rem. TGT 12 16.3 9,400 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Ched. 209 Rem. TGT 12 17.4 10,600 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Ched. 209 WAA12SL 15.1 8,300 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Ched. 209 WAA12SL 16.2 9,400 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Ched. 209 WAA12SL 17.2 10,400 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A Fed. 12SO 16 8,200 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A Fed. 12SO 17.2 9,000 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A Fed. 12SO 18.6 10,400 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A Rem. TGT 12 15.7 7,600 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A Rem. TGT 12 17.3 8,800 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A Rem. TGT 12 18.1 10,000 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A Rem. TGT 12 19.4 11,200 PSI 1,290
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A WAA12SL 16.4 7,300 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A WAA12SL 17.4 7,700 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A WAA12SL 18.4 9,600 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A WAA12SL 20.1 10,600 PSI 1,290
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A Windjammer 17.1 8,400 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A Windjammer 18.1 9,300 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fed. 209A Windjammer 19.3 10,600 PSI 1,290
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 616 Windjammer 16.6 8,300 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 616 Windjammer 18.2 9,600 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 616 Windjammer 19.5 10,700 PSI 1,290
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 CB 4100-12B 15.1 8,300 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 CB 4100-12B 16.3 9,300 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 CB 4100-12B 17.4 10,300 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 Rem. TGT 12 14.8 7,500 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 Rem. TGT 12 15.3 8,600 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 Rem. TGT 12 16.5 9,500 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 Rem. TGT 12 16.4 9,600 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 Rem. TGT 12 18.1 11,400 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 Rem. TGT 12 17.5 10,700 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 WAA12SL 15 7,100 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 WAA12SL 16.7 9,300 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Fio. 617 WAA12SL 18.3 11,300 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Fed. 12SO 15.7 8,700 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Fed. 12SO 16.5 10,000 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Fed. 12SO 18 11,200 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Purple PC 15.9 6,500 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Purple PC 17.3 7,300 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Purple PC 18.8 9,200 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Purple PC 20.3 10,400 PSI 1,290
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 15.9 6,900 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 16.8 7,800 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 18.4 8,900 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 20.2 10,600 PSI 1,290
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Windjammer 17.3 7,900 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Windjammer 18.3 9,400 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rem. 209P Windjammer 19.5 9,900 PSI 1,290
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rio G-1000 Rem. TGT 12 14.8 7,800 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rio G-1000 Rem. TGT 12 16.4 9,700 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rio G-1000 Rem. TGT 12 18 11,400 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rio G-1000 WAA12SL 15 7,500 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rio G-1000 WAA12SL 16.7 9,600 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Rio G-1000 WAA12SL 18.2 11,400 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Fed. 12SO 15.6 9,000 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Fed. 12SO 16.8 10,300 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Purple PC 15.9 6,900 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Purple PC 17.1 7,400 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Purple PC 18.5 9,000 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Purple PC 19.5 10,400 PSI 1,290
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Rem. TGT 12 15.2 8,200 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Rem. TGT 12 16.4 9,200 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Rem. TGT 12 17.7 10,200 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Rem. TGT 12 19 11,300 PSI 1,290
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 WAA12SL 15.5 7,300 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 WAA12SL 17.1 8,000 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 WAA12SL 18.5 9,600 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 WAA12SL 19.5 11,200 PSI 1,290
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Windjammer 16.6 8,400 PSI 1,180
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Windjammer 17.6 9,800 PSI 1,235
Hodgdon Titewad OUT OF STOCK Win. 209 Windjammer 19.2 10,700 PSI 1,290

I don't see the Win super x hull listed but BPI says it uses the same basewad as the Win AA HS hull but there may be diferences.

I don't see your combination in this listing.

Best to follow exact recipe except as noted subbing equal weight shot of slug for the payload.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

So one of the things I wondered about was the safety of using a different shell than what the load calls for. Swapping out bird shot for a slug is an old trick and that's what makes me think it would be safe to swap one shell for another and then work up slowly with the powder charge like I'd do with rifle or pistol reloading.

I have a good number of Winchester Super-X shells that I'd like to reuse instead of buying more until I can buy more, if that makes sense.

Win Super X hulls are nearly the same as AA hulls which are very close to Rem STS hulls. As long as you stay on the low end of Shot Shell Reloading You will find that you have a lot of Latitude. I use Win Universal Hulls which are good for 1-2 reloads for my 3 gun or class ammo where I can't pick up my empties. They are loaded with my Standard Trap Load which is normally done in Win AA hulls with up to 10 reloads before scrapping. All the same internal components only diff is the Cheap Throw Away Hull.

You don't need to be reloading slugs for 1400-1600 fps ! There is no practical use for such Reloaded Ammo. The only practical use for such ammo is hunting really Big Game or shooting at Perps about to run you over with their car! If you need to do that, just go buy some factory built slugs or buckshot. Then you are assured of being safe. Your shoulder won't be safe, but that is another discussion.

My point here is that if you are going to hunt Really Big Game you go buy a box of Brenneke Slugs for $10 and go hunt. The only way I'd ever choose to shoot a Polar Bear or Brown Bear with any of my Reloaded Slugs would be if I got caught out and that's all I had with me. Except I wouldn't get caught with out any, as I always carry a few Heavy Slugs with me when out and about.

Now going back to the lighter stuff,, you have so much latitude that it would be hard to screw up. All the things Longbow talks about do matter, however they must be considered in Context. If you are loading light loads then even a Hot Federal Primer that bumps the pressure 3000 psi is not going to kill you, However if you are loading rounds that are in the 12,000 psi range then those primers might just send you into orbit. Hint: Don't buy those primers?

Changes in Plastic wads from one MFG to another are probably not going to promote a significant pressure change. And especially if your proposed loads are going to be in the 8000 psi range to begin with.

I have loaded many thousands of shot shells, and every one of them has been a Low Pressure Load. For Trap and Skeet and Dove and Quail Hunting. If I am going hunting for Pheasants I buy a box of factory ammo for that pursuit, and that box can last for many years!

My whole point here is that 99% of people don't need to fire anything hotter than AA 1 1/8 oz. Trap Loads for Clays or Hunting. My 3 gun shoots use some more light shot loads and maybe a Few Lee Slugs or Round Balls which are again my Trap Loads with a different Payload. IE Lee, Lyman or .662 ball.) They are not dangerous in any way, other than on the receiving end?

As far as "Working Up a Load," you don't work up loads for shot shells ! You go to a loading manual and pick out one of the 18,000 listed Recipes for every hull known to man, that Does what you want to do, and uses most of the components you have or need to buy and put them together like that. All of those loads will have been Pressure Tested and will tell you what velocity and pressure they are generating. Making changes like a Claybuster wad for a Win AA wad will not change anything. And If you stay away from Federals Hottest Primers just about anything other than those will be safe in any load you choose. I use Cheddite Primers in everything now because that's all I could get for the last several years and they work just fine.

Anyway, Good Luck, It really isn't that scary.

Randy

[Lloyd Smale]

guess im lucky. for 40 years ive used whatever wad i have and when i want to load slugs or buck i weight then go to the loading manual look for the charge for the powder i want to use and use whatever primer i have and use any hull i have high or low brass or brand. i think shotgun loads are dummied down because there used sometimes in old cheap guns of questionable quality. i have a couple buddys that live in farmland and can only use a shotgun and their loads even make me cringe

[longbow]

If using birdshot load data and especially in the mid to low range of pressure it likely doesn't really matter but as noted, if you want to fold crimp the powder charge and wad column has to be the right height or your fold crimp won't be any good.

If you use a recipe for a large volume straight walled hull and try to put that into a compression formed/tapered hull it likely won't fit without a change of wad. If that recipe is an 11,000 PSi recipe you could get into over pressure as well.

Having said that generally slugs reportedly develop less pressure than same wight of birdshot due to lower bore friction. Tonyfromitaly once posted that in Italy it is common for shotshell slug reloaders to up the powder charge used for birdshot by 15% when a slug of equal weight is used. I am not saying "Go do that!", I am saying that apparently some people do successfully so if true or close to true then subbing a slug for shot should be completely safe regardless of hull, primer or wad because 15% powder charge is pretty large! So while seemingly safe, the only way to know for sure is to have the load pressure tested.

The simple fact based on Tom Armbrust"s pressure tesiting reports is that if you use a "hot" primer like Federal 209A and a deep crimp you could easily generate at least 3000 PSi more than the recipe indicates and maybe as much as 6000 PSI based on about ~3000 PSI variation between primers and ~3000 PSI due to deep crimp.

It is best to use published pressure tested recipes.

Play but play safe!

Longbow

[ThaDave]

Okay, I think I have a bit better of an understanding. I'm more interested in accurate than building high pressure than needed. So now it is a matter of finding something that shoots well in my gun and standardizing on it.

[longbow]

Your options for home cast slugs are pretty limited. The two big box stores are Lyman with their Foster style (stay away!) and their sabot slug, and Lee with their 1 oz. and 7/8 oz. wad slugs.

NOE and Mihec also produce clones of the Lyman sabot slug plus Mihec (MP Molds) makes that in a full bore version but it casts heavy at around 630 grs. so has to be loaded accordingly.

There are a ocuple of Russian mould makers that have a very good selection of mould designs for both wad slugs and full bore slugs. The benefit of a full bore slug is that it eliminates the variable of wad petal thickness and toughness.

Since you have the Lee 7/8 oz. mould you may as well use it but will have to sort out correct wad thickness so the rifling spin is transferred to the slug. Too tight and the petals will fail, too loose and spin won't be properly transferred. If you are looking for moderate loads then likely using the wads suggested by Lee in their load data but using an otherwise birdshot recipe should give you decent slug/wad/bore fit but not a hard recoiling load.

Also worth trying since you have the 0.690" RB mould is ball in wad but again, you need the right ball/wad/bore fit. BPI lists load data in their slug manual with a BPI wad (of course!) so that must work. A former poster here said he got excellent results using the 0.690" RB in a Federal wasd in his H&R Ultra Slug Gun. Apparently Federal wads are quite tough. I have not used them as they were not locally available. TRG3 was/is his handle. Here are a couple of threads with his load info:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...all-Takes-Deer
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...90-Ball-in-12g

The 0.690" RB is about 1 1/8 oz. so standard birdshot load data can be used.

Longbow