sticking cases on funnel driving me crazy

[oldsman]

the mighty die actually had left slightly more flare on the brass because I did not re adjust for each die . And note that Mighty dos put a coating on their dies and it excepts a bullet just like the the dda die
And a side note we prep on a cp2000 mark7 driven and load on a rl1100 mark7 driven and the mark 7 drive dos not like the sticky the DDA produces , thats when we started prepping the brass with m style type die and that problem went away . But all the tests were done on are xl650 press with fresh brass to get a hand feel and now the Mighty die is now set up on the rl1100

[JimB..]

Beauty, I might have to try one just for giggles.

[jednorris]

In another thread, the guy tumbled with some car wax added. That might work, if nothing else it is better than a liquid lube.

[Leadmad]

I`m having or had similar problems with sticking cases in the expander funnel I bought from Lou`s gunwork's it works like the M style Die and a nice step of .1 of an inch to seat the projectile in, I have 2 of these one set up for 38 special and the other .45 ACP and both are used in separate Square Deal press`s and both calibers the cases would stick (Some cases more or harder than others ). I wet tumble and for the longest time used the pins for about 45 mins with a mix of Dish wash liquid (Any type) Citric acid and a splash of auto dishwasher powder. The dishwasher powder really cleaned things up and I stopped using the pins approx 2 years ago and that's when the sticking stopped. With no pins it left a very light layer of carbon inside the case and I firmly believe it works as a sort of lubricant and allows the cases to release easily from the expander funnel.

All the best and Cheers

[jetinteriorguy]

I`m having or had similar problems with sticking cases in the expander funnel I bought from Lou`s gunwork's it works like the M style Die and a nice step of .1 of an inch to seat the projectile in, I have 2 of these one set up for 38 special and the other .45 ACP and both are used in separate Square Deal press`s and both calibers the cases would stick (Some cases more or harder than others ). I wet tumble and for the longest time used the pins for about 45 mins with a mix of Dish wash liquid (Any type) Citric acid and a splash of auto dishwasher powder. The dishwasher powder really cleaned things up and I stopped using the pins approx 2 years ago and that's when the sticking stopped. With no pins it left a very light layer of carbon inside the case and I firmly believe it works as a sort of lubricant and allows the cases to release easily from the expander funnel.

All the best and Cheers

The dishwasher powder sounds like a good idea, I think I’ll give it a try. I’ve been pretty satisfied with just Dawn and citric but if this helps a bit it’s worth trying.

[ioon44]

I use Hornady One Shot to stop wet tumbled brass sticking to expander funnel, for .45 I set about 200 of them in a tray with mouth up and give a light spray from two directions. When I dry tumble brass the carbon left in the case stops the sticking problem.

[Kenstone]

Well that's good to hear. Sounds like I may need something similar.

Have you tried cutting a relief into the expander diameter.
That will greatly reduce the case length that contacts the expander, and minimize the sticking.
Here's a pic:

You could chuck the expander in a drill, clamp the drill in a vise, and carefully cut that relief with a cut-off wheel in a Dremel type tool.
A drill press would work better if you have one. (a lathe would be even better)
Ideally, you would leave only about 1/8" length of the original diameter at the very end, like the pic.

The other end of the relief would be at the step, lengthening and blending that transition.
There's no "M" step in that expander pic. just a flare angle.
.
Edit: here's another pic of an "M" expander showing the undercut/relief:

Ignore the verbiage.
.

[dearslayer]

I use Hornady One Shot to stop wet tumbled brass sticking to expander funnel, for .45 I set about 200 of them in a tray with mouth up and give a light spray from two directions. When I dry tumble brass the carbon left in the case stops the sticking problem.

I've tried both methods with no luck. I've put off ordering the Mighty Armory expander because of the shipping, exchange, and brokerage fees but i'm gonna just bite the bullet sort of speak and order one.

[gloob]

Have you tried cutting a relief into the expander diameter.
That will greatly reduce the case length that contacts the expander, and minimize the sticking.
Here's a pic:

You could chuck the expander in a drill, clamp the drill in a vise, and carefully cut that relief with a cut-off wheel in a Dremel type tool.
A drill press would work better if you have one. (a lathe would be even better)
Ideally, you would leave only about 1/8" length of the original diameter at the very end, like the pic.

The other end of the relief would be at the step, lengthening and blending that transition.
There's no "M" step in that expander pic. just a flare angle.
.
Edit: here's another pic of an "M" expander showing the undercut/relief:

Ignore the verbiage.
.

Perfect explanation. This is what I did on mine, or at least I started. Even just one thinner groove down the middle is a big improvement. I figured that theoretically you could go just past the tip and stop just before the step, and I'll probably go ahead and make it closer to this picture next time I want to load this cartridge.

[dearslayer]

To be clear, are these the cut lines refered to?

Sent from my LYA-L0C using Tapatalk

[ioon44]

I've tried both methods with no luck. I've put off ordering the Mighty Armory expander because of the shipping, exchange, and brokerage fees but i'm gonna just bite the bullet sort of speak and order one.

Another thought is to check how much your sizing die is sizing your brass, too much sizing would create more pressure on the powder funnel, just something to consider.

On my 9 mm dies I back the sizer die up 1 turn (0.80") so the powder die doesn't have to work as hard and does not swag down my 0.359" Hi-Tek coated bullets.

[dearslayer]

Another thought is to check how much your sizing die is sizing your brass, too much sizing would create more pressure on the powder funnel, just something to consider.

On my 9 mm dies I back the sizer die up 1 turn (0.80") so the powder die doesn't have to work as hard and does not swag down my 0.359" Hi-Tek coated bullets.

Good point. I'll check that. I'm using Dillon Dies.

[ioon44]

I have got rid of Dillon dies that sized brass so much that when I loaded a bullet in the case it looked like a Coke bottle.

I am using Hornady die for about everything I load now.

[dearslayer]

I have got rid of Dillon dies that sized brass so much that when I loaded a bullet in the case it looked like a Coke bottle.

I am using Hornady die for about everything I load now.

I just recently purchased these dies but had I known they would produce a coke bottle effect I would not have purchased them.

[gloob]

To be clear, are these the cut lines refered to?

Sent from my LYA-L0C using Tapatalk

If I'm not mistaken, the entire area between those two lines is ground slightly smaller than full diameter. The end of the plug is tapered. But as soon as it gets to full diameter, it only stays full OD for a short "driving band." Then the plug is ground maybe 2 thous smaller (springback is just under 2 thous). Then it goes back to full diameter only for a short band in front of the even larger OD step flare. So the end of the plug fully expands the case, and the mouth gets step flared, but the huge area between those two parts of the plug don't drag and stick. The brass will springback a bit between the two full diameter parts of the plug, but the relief is deeper than the springback. So the brass will lightly touch and glide over the relieved area.

I believe Country_gent described this on the first page. He called the relief a "draft."

Just leave enough full diameter band at the tip in case you ever want to shorten the plug for some reason.

[Kenstone]

To be clear, are these the cut lines refered to?

Sent from my LYA-L0C using Tapatalk

No, the very end needs to be left at full diameter to expand the case. (Between the red lines.)
I extended the orange line (in red) to the point where the undercut should start.


Full diameter on the end (between red lines).
Undercut in the middle (between the green lines).

.

[dearslayer]

I have got rid of Dillon dies that sized brass so much that when I loaded a bullet in the case it looked like a Coke bottle.

I am using Hornady die for about everything I load now.

Well I backed up the sizing die one full turn and it made a noticeable difference in the coke bottle effect. It's only just barely noticeable now. Thanks for the tip.

[ioon44]

Just make sure your loaded ammo passes the plunk test in the barrel it is to be used in and make sure you don't have any bullet set back by applying hand pressure. I check set back by pushing the loaded round against the edge of my loading bench.

[ioon44]

I just recently purchased these dies but had I known they would produce a coke bottle effect I would not have purchased them.

I still have some Dillon dies that don't over size my brass, the ones that were a problem were replaced with Hornady.

Dillon customer service was not helpful with the issue of the coke bottle effect.

[dearslayer]

Just make sure your loaded ammo passes the plunk test in the barrel it is to be used in and make sure you don't have any bullet set back by applying hand pressure. I check set back by pushing the loaded round against the edge of my loading bench.

I actually pulled the barrels from 3 separate pistols to ensure they all passed the plunk test and all worked well. I haven't tried the set back against the bench but I definitely will. I do apply a separate taper crimp.