By volume, or by weight???

[indian joe]

Not needed for a target rifle and D.D. P.P. Bullet and zero compression in a unsized case fired from the rifle.

fit quite a bit more powder in that space was my point

Zero compression? How long do you take to pour a charge through the drop tube ? I think I proly dont do that slow enough

[jednorris]

Powder varies by brand and consistency. Since he makes his own Powder, does that not make every lot he makes charge different?

[indian joe]

Powder varies by brand and consistency. Since he makes his own Powder, does that not make every lot he makes charge different?

make a batch that lasts 12 to 18 months, blend it thoroughly, screen it vigorously, dry it properly, store it well, = no more variation problem than commercial (likely less !!!)

[jednorris]

Ditto to what 1903 said.

[Pilgrim1]

Commercial black powder of the same brand and granulation varies by lot also. Once you settle on a good load by weight or volume you have to adjust the charge with a new lot. Some are more dense and some are less dense.

[greenjoytj]

Commercial black powder of the same brand and granulation varies by lot also.

I agree with that statement.

Some are more dense and some are less dense.

True the density can vary lot to lot and brand to brand.

Once you settle on a good load by weight or volume you have to adjust the charge with a new lot.

Nope I disagree.
If a less dense lot or brand of black powder fuel is measured by weight it will provide the same amount of energy.
The only difference will be is in the increased volume of space the less dense fuel will occupy.
Even if the granulation size varied that would only alter the speed of the burn and when in time the peak pressure occurs, the overall energy released would be the same because the energy the fuel contains is locked in the fuels mass weight not in the volume of space it occupies.

[indian joe]

I agree with that statement.



True the density can vary lot to lot and brand to brand.



Nope I disagree.
If a less dense lot or brand of black powder fuel is measured by weight it will provide the same amount of energy.
The only difference will be is in the increased volume of space the less dense fuel will occupy.
Even if the granulation size varied that would only alter the speed of the burn and when in time the peak pressure occurs, the overall energy released would be the same because the energy the fuel contains is locked in the fuels mass weight not in the volume of space it occupies.

why disagree ? I thought that was what he was sayin .......we read things different I guess................

[1903.colt]

I get 80 grs. of Swiss or O.E. 1.5 with room to spare in a 45-70 slowly dumped from a 24” drop tube.

Very nice randy I also use a drop tube . Paper patch what gun are loading for Thank you Victor .

[elmacgyver0]

My guess is the whole volume thing came about because it would be a bit awkward for Daniel Boone to run around the woods dragging along a scale and weighing all his charges for his smoke pole.

[indian joe]

My guess is the whole volume thing came about because it would be a bit awkward for Daniel Boone to run around the woods dragging along a scale and weighing all his charges for his smoke pole.

If someone back then wanted to duplicate ole Daniels load there woulda been a set of apothecary scles not too far away OR they can just set down and whittle a measure till it held the same amount.
My beef in all of this is callin it something its not. Grains is a measure of weight - period! can you make a volumetric measure that holds 57 grains of Dupont no 2 (or whatever they are shooting) of course !!! but it needs calibrated somehow
Does it matter when we change batches ? for most proly not but at 1000yards I bet it do
Does it matter when we change brands (its all blackpowder isnt it ?) ...well try 70 grains of Wano up against the same weight of Swiss ? I never shot Swiss but last test I did Wano was 100fps slower than Goex and the Gurus tell that Swiss beats Goex, so 150FPS from a brand change dont matter? I think it do ....................

In the end all this matters little - the target tells the story and if ya happy with that ...........................
OTOH if you want to do better ? its one more little thing to consider, to try , and use or discard .

[Brimstone]

make a batch that lasts 12 to 18 months, blend it thoroughly, screen it vigorously, dry it properly, store it well, = no more variation problem than commercial (likely less !!!)

This. To put forth the argument that making powder is inconsistent from lot to lot (if you actually try) with your tools is akin to making the argument that reloading ammo at your bench will never match factory consistency.

To suggest the latter on any forum other than a leftist anti gun forum and you'll be buried under a rock slide of facts, records and record holders.
But, like that record setting custom rifle, its record setting hand loaded ammo, batch to batch consistency is all about the person using the powder making tools and ultimately, loading technique.

[hiram]

I load 45-70 by weight. Once compressed the volume in each case will be the same and you know the weight is the same because you weighed it.

[Yellowhouse]

It ain't rocket science! For ML use volume. For cartridge guns figure out the amount that fills the case to the base of the bullet, factor in your wad column and compression , if any. Then weight that charge!

[Randy Bohannon]

Very nice randy I also use a drop tube . Paper patch what gun are loading for Thank you Victor .

One Shiloh 1874 #3 30” , and one Shiloh #1 1877 32”, chambers are nearly identical.

[greenjoytj]

It ain't rocket science! For ML use volume. For cartridge guns figure out the amount that fills the case to the base of the bullet, factor in your wad column and compression , if any. Then weight that charge!

Unless for ML (muzzle loader) user the shooter chooses to weigh his power charges and put it into quick load tubes.
Then he doesn't have to mess around dispensing powder into a volume measure at the range.

[Edward]

It ain't rocket science! For ML use volume. For cartridge guns figure out the amount that fills the case to the base of the bullet, factor in your wad column and compression , if any. Then weight that charge!

Either cartridge (OR) muzzle loader for best accuracy (USE A DROP TUBE) and of course weight your charge and your bullet ! With cost of shooting why settle for less? For cartridge a drop tube gets more powder compacted and in a muzzle loader a drop tube gets every grain down to the ignition point , lots of powder grains get stuck in lands/grooves other wise . Short range not an issue but consistency is extremely important at LR and (again) if it costs more every time a trigger is pulled even @ short range why waste powder /lead , drop tubes are not much money and do make a difference accuracy wise ./Ed

[mack2]

Has anyone ever measured how much velocity one obtains per grain and then see how much affect this will have on vertical strings?

[indian joe]

Either cartridge (OR) muzzle loader for best accuracy (USE A DROP TUBE) and of course weight your charge and your bullet ! With cost of shooting why settle for less? For cartridge a drop tube gets more powder compacted and in a muzzle loader a drop tube gets every grain down to the ignition point , lots of powder grains get stuck in lands/grooves other wise . Short range not an issue but consistency is extremely important at LR and (again) if it costs more every time a trigger is pulled even @ short range why waste powder /lead , drop tubes are not much money and do make a difference accuracy wise ./Ed

a drop tube might be a viable plan for a long range target muzzleloader shooting slugs but I would need more than a little convincing its anything more than a timewaster at shorter ranges - open sights - round ball - lube and how you use the ramrod will make more difference
How is powder gonna remain "stuck in the lands/grooves " after you ram down a patched ball???????

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I weigh.