8x56R Questions

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I've not been here for a bit.

I cast balls for muzzleloaders, and I cast a couple different Lee designs for my .45acp pistols.

Recently, I acquired a Steyr-Mannlicher m95 in 8x56R, and I have questions:

First, I understand Lee makes a decent mold for a GC bullet. Can a gas check be installed with a Lee sizer? I've never done gas checks before.

Second, I was pan lubing but went back to tumble lubing with Alox. I made up a bunch of traditionally-lubed boolits once and they started turning white before I got around to shooting them all. Alox seems to protect that from happening. Does Alox work well at rifle velocities, or would I still have to lube the grooves with beeswax or similar?

Third, powder coating: How does powder coating work with velocities around 2000fps?

I'm pretty sure I can duplicate the factory 208grn loads with cast boolits. I'd like to experiment with driving lighter bullets a bit faster, say 150grn at 2500fps. I have some 150grn 0.323 flat-base j-word bullets left over from loading up some 7.92x57js rounds for a Gewehr 88/05. Do you think they'd obtruate enough to fill the 0.330" grooves (assuming they are, indeed, 0.330"?) If the barrel slugs bigger, would it work to resize 0.338" j-bullets down to whatever size it slugs to?

I really like this little carbine, probably as much as I like the Mosin. I just need to get some ammo made as I only have right now 14 rounds of surplus that I'm not crazy about shooting off.

Thanks for any help!

Regards,

Josh

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I can't answer all of your questions-- maybe a couple and some observations. I've owned several of these in the past, and currently still have two of them. The surplus ammo mostly dates to 1938-'39 and is corrosive. It will usually fire, but unless you're like "The Rock" (wrestler/actor) you're likely to find the recoil very stout! The clips for these rifles have become scarcer than the ammo, and the clip will drop out of the hole in the bottom of the magazine after the last shot. They disappear into the tall grass never to be seen again. A good solution is a piece of masking tape across the hole, then pick the clip back out of the receiver with your fingers. If you shoot the antique ammo you're going to find that it is Berdan-primed and difficult to reload, but it can be done with knowledge and persistence (search for an article on reloading Berdan cases by Member Larry Gibson). The brass can be made for 762x54mm Russian brass, but requires pricy special tools (ask me how I know!). A major problem with these rifles is it sometimes seems like no two of them have the same bore size. Nominally supposed to be .329", but one of mine, visibly worn is .336", and I've owned everything in between. I have two of the Lee molds which cast .329" but had no luck with them. I phoned the factory and chatted with a guy there who owns both rifle and mold and he said, "I haven't had any luck with it either." On the other hand, one day at the rifle range I spied a fellow who was shooting silver dollar sized groups with one. I asked him what the bore size of his rifle was and he said, ".329". They're really a cute little rifle with a unique action and if you've got a good one and can tame it they're a great woods and brush rifle. Your .323" bullets are unlikely to prove satisfactory, too loose in the bore. I used to have a Lee push through bullet sizer, but it didn't seat gas checks. Maybe the newer ones do-- can't say. If you have a short piece of wooden dowel and dish it out on one end you can sometimes seat gas checks by putting the gas check on a flat surface, inserting the base of the bullet, and pushing downward on the bullet nose with the dished out end of the dowel. You can flare the case mouths, insert the bullet with gas check, and then when you seat the bullet in the seater die it will usually squeeze down enough to stay on. You'll have to experiment.

DG

[15meter]

I've used the Lee mold with mine, not awesome accuracy but decent enough to ring dingers at the club. I've just pushed on the gas checks and used Ben's Liquid Lube, 2 coats, never had any leading. I shot them as cast.

I had good luck with the same boolit in a pair of 318 Westley Richards rifles. I think the 8x56R and the 318 W-R are the only two rifles that use a .329 bullet.

I'd be interested to know if there were any others. The 8x50R that the 8x56R was based on was .323.

[challenger_i]

Odd... Not disputing your findings, but my two 8x50's slug .330". I have a friend that has a Solothurn in 8x50, but it had seen a good bit of use before he acquired it, and the bore measurement would not be of any use to us. By the way: if anyone has a line on a lightly used Solothurn barrel...

[j4570]

At $35 per box currently, it’s going to be real hard to load for it cheaper if you don’t have brass. Both soft point and FMJ in stock.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...categoryId/257

Brass is over $1 each. And appears to be out of stock.

They are out of the Prvi 0.330 bullets.

I have used Speer .338 Sized down to 0.329 in a LEE push through sizer. Lube the bullets with imperial wax. It has to a somewhat newer 0.329 LEE sizer as the older ones the taper was too steep.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018523537?pid=982621

They are fun guns but do kick.

[ukrifleman]

I think it highly unlikely that .323 bullets would work in a bore that is designed to shoot .329 projectiles.
I suggest you slug the bore before deciding on a suitable bullet diameter.
The M95 requires a charger for loading, do not single feed rounds or you run the risk of breaking the extractor.
On a safety note, don't get your finger between the bolt body and head or you could get the Steyr equivalent of Garand thumb!
The Lee .338-220-1R bullet appropriately sized should fit the bill and yes, Lee push through sizers will seat gas checks.
I have never tried to swage down FMJ bullets but stuck with cast loads.
https://www.henrykrank.com/lee-mould...-220-1r-90372/

I tumble lube my cast bullets with Lee Liquid Alox and get zero leading.

[15meter]

Odd... Not disputing your findings, but my two 8x50's slug .330". I have a friend that has a Solothurn in 8x50, but it had seen a good bit of use before he acquired it, and the bore measurement would not be of any use to us. By the way: if anyone has a line on a lightly used Solothurn barrel...

Only 8x50R I ever loaded for was a William Evans double that had been rechambered from 30 Purdey. The gun still carried the original markings.

It most definitely was not a 30 Purdey. It did shoot 8x50R's using cast boolits sized to .325 beautifully. The suspicion is that it was rechambered to get away from being too close to 303 British. This rifle saw service in India and it was illegal to own a rifle in the Crown's military caliber.

Cast boolits loads from this rifle would shoot well enough that Jack would shoot a pair, I'd shoot a pair, Jack would shoot another pair and I would shoot the forth pair at 50 yards. About a 2" group. Not bad, 8 rounds into 2" from a double rifle with 2 shooters.

[Josh Smith]

Thanks guys.

I have several clips, seven or eight, thanks to the generosity of someone who used to own an m95.

I've already taken the entire thing apart and fitted the bolt properly to itself and the rifle. It doesn't look like they did it correctly when they force-matched the bolt, and the action is extremely slick now.

The 8x50r used a 0.323" bullet. The long bearing surface made it work, and this was typical of rifles of the time. For example, the original load for the Gewehr 1888, the 7.92x57 M88 load, used a 0.318" long bearing surface bullet in the 0.321" bore. I've read they did this to keep pressures down, but I'm not totally sure that's the reason, or the entirety anyway. Apparently the switch to bore-size projectiles came with boat tail bullets. They didn't have the bearing surfaces to grip the rifling well, and boat tails don't obtruate. This is why I wondered if the 0.323" flat base might work, upsetting enough to seal the bore. I might make a few and find out.

My dies just arrived yesterday, and I'm looking at different molds (partially why I'm back here ��) I found some high-antimony lead and assume I won the bid, gotta check. Next is slugging the bore, ordering some PPU ammo for the brass, and slugging the barrel before making a final decision on the first mold.

I really appreciate the help. Thank you.

Regards,

Josh

[fjrdoc]

This is an option for shooting single cartridges.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/31445274463...Bk9SR9azkfzuYg

[chrispy]

I found with my M95 steyr, it slugged at .332, so I opted for a Lee 338-220 1R projectile, then sized down to 334 using a custom made sizer. I had a mix of Berdan primed (ex mil) brass and PPU brass, as well as reformed 7.62x54r brass.
All worked well in my Carbine. Always used a Gas Check and stuck to the 10-13gn of red dot.
Was a hoot to shoot, but was a learning curve to get everything just right to feed and fire the cartridge.

[charlie b]

First, I understand Lee makes a decent mold for a GC bullet. Can a gas check be installed with a Lee sizer? I've never done gas checks before.

Second, I was pan lubing but went back to tumble lubing with Alox. I made up a bunch of traditionally-lubed boolits once and they started turning white before I got around to shooting them all. Alox seems to protect that from happening. Does Alox work well at rifle velocities, or would I still have to lube the grooves with beeswax or similar?

Third, powder coating: How does powder coating work with velocities around 2000fps?

1. Yes, you can. The Lee molds I have had allow the GC to be placed on the bullets by hand with a slight push. Then set them on the ram and push them through the size die. Works very well. An alternative is the NOE push through system. It uses bushings and you can get them in a wide range of sizes. You can also use a nose punch and push them through base first if you so desire.

2. Some people have had good luck with plain Alox, I have not. A simple lube is 50-50 beeswax and Alox (Harris). I've also used a stiffer mix with lithium grease instead of Alox (~60-40). Ben's Red also works well but takes more components and I stiffen it with carnuba. All are good to however fast you want to push them.

3. I have used powder coating to just over 2500fps with gas checks. I suspect it will protect your bore up to as fast as you can push the bullets.

Your ultimate vel will depend more on the quality of the cast and the twist rate in your bore. If it is 10 twist you will probably find a limit in the 2000-2300fps range.

[muskeg13]

A few observations:
1. I just came from a Wasilla Alaska Gun Show. There was one M95/30 Stutzen on display in externally very nice condition. I say externally because after seeing the $695 tag dangling from the trigger guard, I just chuckled and walked on. I purchased mine at the Wasilla High School gun show just a few years ago for $70 in good shape but missing a rear sight. I installed a Lyman receiver sight, so even when I got a "real" issue sight replacement, I never put it on.

2. My bore over .330, so money spent on the the Lee .329 mold was wasted. Likewise, money spent on the Lee push through sizer would have been wasted, except I opened the sizer to about .332 and use it to size down the Lee 338-220 like chrispy above does, and as also mentioned, using Imperial Sizing Wax, have sized several makes of .338 200gr jacketed bullets to .332. Just be sure to start with standard lead core .338 bullets, not a monolithic or thick jacketed bullet.

3. I install gas checks using the Lyman Gas Check Seater, a .338 sizing die in a RCBS Lubracizer. Go ahead and size and lube in the .338 die because filling the grease grooves with stiff lube helps maintain the grooves when running the boolits through the .330ish Lee push through sizer.

4. You can single load the M95 and not break the extractor if you're careful. The secret is to retract the bolt far enough to insert the rim against the bolt face, but under the extractor claw. Then carefully hold the cartridge in place as you ride the bolt forward until the nose of the bullet is well into the chamber. It's a bit slow until you get the hang of it, but it works and won't break anything. NEVER EVER try to drop a round into the chamber and force the bolt home. You're guaranteed to break the extractor because there is no room/tolerance for the extractor to flex and ride over the rim when the bolt head is about to lock up in the receiver.

[ak_milsurp]

I suggest the "old Feller" Frankenstein mold. From NOE

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[ak_milsurp]

Btw, Muskeg... I'm also in Alaska, (Chugiak), and was exhbiting with the "AMGA" milsurp rifle and "NFA"display...

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[Intel6]

I suggest the "old Feller" Frankenstein mold. From NOE

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That is what I use for my M95, the Lee bullet was too small to fit my rifle. I size to .334" for my rifle and it shoots real well in my rifle.


In this pic you can see L to R:

Bullet coated in Hi-Tek and sized with GC applied
Raw casting
Loaded round also showing how far out of the case I seat it.




My rifle with a clip of loaded rounds. This pic shows my first work with the bullet when I was still using regular lube. I would only fill the grooves that are seated in the case

[Tedly]

I used to shoot 8x56R alot , jacketed and cast. I don't anymore due to balance/ear issues. I never slugged the bore , just ordered the LeeC329-205-1R and poured ACWW then gas check them with regular .32cal Hornady gas checks , put thru a homemade .330 dia. die. I'd get groups the size of your hand with issue sights at 100yd. rested , all day long. Very light charges #5744. Jacketed is simple , PPU makes the readily available bullets thru Graf's , Hornady had an excellent full quality bullet since discontinued .

[Noah Zark]

Hello,

I've not been here for a bit.

I cast balls for muzzleloaders, and I cast a couple different Lee designs for my .45acp pistols.

Recently, I acquired a Steyr-Mannlicher m95 in 8x56R, and I have questions:

First, I understand Lee makes a decent mold for a GC bullet. Can a gas check be installed with a Lee sizer? I've never done gas checks before.

Second, I was pan lubing but went back to tumble lubing with Alox. I made up a bunch of traditionally-lubed boolits once and they started turning white before I got around to shooting them all. Alox seems to protect that from happening. Does Alox work well at rifle velocities, or would I still have to lube the grooves with beeswax or similar?

Third, powder coating: How does powder coating work with velocities around 2000fps?

I'm pretty sure I can duplicate the factory 208grn loads with cast boolits. I'd like to experiment with driving lighter bullets a bit faster, say 150grn at 2500fps. I have some 150grn 0.323 flat-base j-word bullets left over from loading up some 7.92x57js rounds for a Gewehr 88/05. Do you think they'd obtruate enough to fill the 0.330" grooves (assuming they are, indeed, 0.330"?) If the barrel slugs bigger, would it work to resize 0.338" j-bullets down to whatever size it slugs to?

I really like this little carbine, probably as much as I like the Mosin. I just need to get some ammo made as I only have right now 14 rounds of surplus that I'm not crazy about shooting off.

Thanks for any help!

Regards,

Josh

Josh, please see my response to your post about your M95 at the PAFOA Forum.

Noah

[chrispy]

I suggest the "old Feller" Frankenstein mold. From NOE

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Stock version is too small.

[dogmower]

I shoot the lee 205 grain, powder coated and sized to .332 over 42 grains IMR 4350 with a rem 9 1/2 primer. shoots well enough to hit my steel 9x13 inch steel plate at 200 meters if I'm doing my part. Guestimating the velocity at around 2,000 fps, maybe a tad more. Try that load, it's pretty close to the jacketed ballistics on the 208 grain round.