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Thread: Next Generation Squad Weapon on target for 2023

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Next Generation Squad Weapon on target for 2023

    https://www.armytimes.com/news/2022/...lding-in-2023/

    By next year, the Army expects to field its first true replacement for the squad rifle and automatic rifle in a brand-new caliber.

    The Next Generation Squad Weapon rifle and automatic rifle variants, chambered in 6.8 mm, mark the first substantial change to U.S. military small arms since the adoption of the M16 in 1964.

    The Army selected Sig Sauer to build the weapon and refine the cartridge earlier this year. The company won the Army’s Modular Handgun System contract in 2017, replacing the Beretta M9 that had been in service since the 1980s.

    Shooting farther with more punch: The Army finally found an M4 and SAW replacement
    Soldiers, special operators and Marines in the near future will carry a first-of-its kind rifle and light machine gun.
    By Todd South
    The current program value is slated at $4.7 billion for the weapon contract and another $2.7 billion for the associated NGSW-Fire Control, which was awarded to Vortex Optics and Sheltered Wings in early 2022.

    The weapon will replace the M4 and M249 Squad Automatic Weapon for the close combat forces, which includes special operations, infantry, scouts and combat engineers.

    But don’t worry, both weapons will still get their own names — the rifle will be called the M5 and the automatic rifle the M250. The Army’s so creative when it names things.

    The Next Generation Squad Weapon-Fire Control will be built by the Vortex Optics/Sheltered Wing partnership. The companies are scheduled to produce as many as 250,000 optics over the next 10 years. (Vortex)

    Also, non-close combat soldiers will still carry the M4 and M249 SAW for the foreseeable future. Sorry guys and gals, this one’s for the ground pounders and those pounding the ground with them.

    Cheryl Bielamowicz, NGSW program officer, told Army Times that the weapon was scheduled to begin another round of operational tests in September and, upon conclusion, was expected to field to units by early 2023.

    The rifle has a variety of features not found or improved on from the currently issued M4.

    It features M-lock handguards, a Picatinny Rail, an ambidextrous safety, a left-side charging handle and a collapsible buttstock.

    And those little details, the ergonomics, or fit and feel, make a difference, Brig. Gen. Christopher Schneider, head of Program Executive Office-Soldier, told Army Times.

    “Soldiers get out behind that weapons system and it is a matter of minutes and they’re proficient,” Schneider said.

    The Army selected Sig Sauer to build its Next Generation Squad Weapon rifle and automatic rifle, called the XM5, shown here, and XM250. (Sig Sauer)

    The NGSW-Fire Control is a computer-assisted optic that wirelessly links with soldier devices and includes aim correction, a first focal plane optic, a disturbed reticle, a ballistics computer and a laser rangefinder.

    Once fielded, the optic will be called the M157.

    Even in its most degraded form, no computer, just glass, uses a 1-8x variable optic that exceeds the performance of the existing M68 and ACOG optics now fielded, said Maj. Alexander Kipetz, NGSW-Fire Control assistant product manager.

    A quick peek through the scope shows an aim point at the desired range with left and right windage adjustments embedded. The device has every ballistic configuration for all weapons and calibers loaded. So, users could slap the NGSW-Fire Control on their M4s or crew-served machine guns, if needed.

    The optic provides cant, inclination, azimuth and temperature data to best match the shooter’s aim point, weapon and caliber combination to get rounds on target.

    “You’re putting rounds on target much faster, potentially, than you were in the past,” Schneider said.

    The Army selected Sig Sauer to build its Next Generation Squad Weapon rifle and automatic rifle, shown here, called the XM5 and XM250. (Sig Sauer)

    Army Times reported in August that the weapon will also include real-time weapon health and readiness through a monitoring system under development by Armaments Research Co.

    Poor performance with the 5.56 mm-chambered weapons at great distances in Afghanistan and concerns about Chinese and Russian body armor advances drove a report called the Small Arms Ammunition Configuration Study several years ago. That study identified the need for an “intermediate caliber” that fell between the 5.56 mm and 7.62 mm used in most NATO ground combat units.

    Sig Sauer MCX SPEAR, the civilian version of its new Next Generation Squad Weapon, selected in April 2022 by the Army as its M4/M16 and SAW replacement for close combat forces. (Sig Sauer)

    The 5.56 mm was too light and could not deliver lethal effects consistently past 300 meters. The 7.62 mm shot farther but fell off in accuracy and energy on target compared to newer rounds. But a simple switch to 7.62 mm for everyone was not in the offing.

    The heavier round in legacy weapons was too heavy and put up too much recoil to ensure accurate fire from all shooters.

    Developers dipped into the past by selecting a 6 mm-range caliber, which was used by the U.K. and Japanese militaries in the early 20th Century.

    For civilian shooters, the 6 mm is comparable to the .270 caliber round commonly used in North American deer hunting.

    Sig Sauer MCX SPEAR, the civilian version of its new Next Generation Squad Weapon, selected in April 2022 by the Army as its M4/M16 and SAW replacement for close combat forces. (Sig Sauer)

    But that is not the round that the Army designed. With input from the study, the Army Marksmanship Unit, Picatinny Arsenal and a host of other small arms and ammunition experts, officials narrowed down to the 6.8 mm projectile, designed by the Army.

    From there, vendors contributed weapon designs built with the new round in mind. Sig Sauer submitted an M4/M16 ergonomic-style weapon common to most assault rifle platforms.

    General Dynamics, which later handed over the contract to Lone Star Future Weapons, put up a bullpup design. The bullpup places the magazine well or feed behind the pistol grip in the buttstock of the weapon, which alters the weapons balance and shortens the overall length. It is a design commonly used in some foreign militaries but not traditionally used in U.S. formations.

    Textron Systems pushed a cased-telescoped ammunition using polymer casing to lighten the load but was unsuccessful in the process.

    The winner, by Sig Sauer, does have a lot of features, greater range and lethality. But it does come at a cost, fewer rounds carried and a heavier rifle, though the automatic rifle is lighter than the SAW it replaces.

    The Army's Next Generation Squad Weapon fires a new, intermediate caliber round, the 6.8 mm. (Sig Sauer)

    M5 shooters will lose 70 rounds and carry another 5 pounds in total weapon, optic and ammo load compared to the M4.

    M250 light machine gunners will give up 200 rounds and add 3.6 pounds compared with the M249 SAW load. The M250 is lighter, but the ammo is heavier and the new fire control adds 2.6 pounds to the system, according to officials.

    Both Sig Sauer and Lake City Army Ammunition Plant near Independence, Missouri, will manufacture the new 6.8 mm ammunition. Lake City is adding a new manufacturing line for that purpose. It’s expected to be at full capacity by 2025,
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I believe that your source is somewhat outdated. The rifle has been redesignated as the XM-7, because Colt has an M5 rifle on the market currently. An element of the 101st is currently performing operational testing, along with Rangers and at least one other unit, prior to a rotation to Romania.
    Service members, veterans and those concerned about their mental health can call the Veterans Crisis Line to speak to trained professionals. To talk to someone, call 1-800-273-8255 and Press 1, send a text message to 838255 or chat at VeteransCrisisLine.net/Chat.

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  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master



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    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Depending on where the next “war” is it will either be loved on seriously hated by troops, either way tactics and training will have to change some to reflect a drop in ammunition carried by each soldier thus shifting the ability to suppress the enemy from individual soldiers weapons to the GPMG, squad tactics simular to WWII British would be there best bet. Ie everyone learns to shoot that dam machine gun and everyone carry’s a little ammo for it..

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    So will the new standard serviceman’s rifle be semi-auto or select fire? Are they saying the 6.8 mm round will definitely penetrate Chinese and Russian body armor, or just do better than 5.56?
    Other than the cartridge upgrade and the new optics, is this new rifle / system a giant (as in $7.4 billion that will probably wind up at three times that projected amount) step forward? M-Locks and collapsible stocks are worthwhile updates that could probably be incorporated into current weapons. The advantages of 5.56 as a military cartridge were at one time highly praised despite some even then apparent shortcomings. The 6.8 reduces or negates most of those advantages, making it clear there is no perfect “one size fits all” cartridge.
    In the end despite an overwhelming superiority in equipment, logistics, technology and organization, we wound up getting run out of SE Asia and Afghanistan by for the most part, poorly trained and equipped peasants.
    On the other hand, if 6.8 takes off, as it will being the cartridge of choice for the top dog in NATO, there will be a lot of allies forced to spend billions to make it the new NATO round.

    While we’re at it,
    What do the statisticians say is the average number of US shots fired per enemy combatant neutralized in Iraq vs in WW2?

  6. #6
    Boolit Master gc45's Avatar
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    Make them all here using US Labor. More taxpayers pumping money into foreign labor markets is a disgrace.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by gc45 View Post
    Make them all here using US Labor. More taxpayers pumping money into foreign labor markets is a disgrace.
    That won’t happen. NATO might switch to 6.8 and a few might buy our new rifle but most of them will design and build their own. On the bright side, the firearms manufacturers will finally get to build a version M-5 or XM-7, and sell forty million civilian copies.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmi48219 View Post
    ......
    ......
    While we’re at it,
    What do the statisticians say is the average number of US shots fired per enemy combatant neutralized in Iraq vs in WW2?

    Interesting question.

    The development & selection of firearms, caliber, etc... often is relegated to people who ave never served; and worse - to those who are seeking to be "Developers" rather than "Problem Solvers". Our tactics for the service member on the ground get "Adjusted" to allow the service member/s to execute their mission; not necessarily at the optimum or least risk method.

    I do not know the comparison between WW-II rounds expended and our later efforts at warfare. A variety of sources make claims that in Civil War - 70 rounds per KIA. In the Zulu conflict by the British; it was reported to be 13 rounds per Zulu KIA. Supposedly in the During World War II it was estimated that 45,000 rounds of small arms ammunition was fired to kill one enemy soldier. In Vietnam the American military establishment consumed an estimated 50,000 rounds of ammunition for every enemy killed. And there are references to Afghanistan having 300,000 rounds per KIA. All of these send a message that the effectiveness of fire against the enemy has decreased. These were all supposedly based on Small Arms Expenditures; Small arms ammunition defined as the ammunition used by the sidearm, assault rifle, rifle and heavy machines.

    Army historian Colonel S.L.A. Marshall provided some insight associated with WW-II; and later the Korean War. It is reputed that Most (90% or greater) Service Members never fire their weapons in armed conflicts when exposed to fire; and many will either through subconscious or conscious decision will not shoot to kill or wound. It takes extensive training to overcome this Human (Civilized?) behavior.

    Much of that large number of rounds expended is due to tactics of "Fire And Maneuver" where fully automatic or massed burst/single fire rounds are expended to keep an enemies head down while others maneuver during their fire to take the Objective and either Wound/Kill/or Capture those at the objective. Many years ago; the USMC was focused on "Well Aimed Shots" for the individual Marine - supported by periodic Machine Gun fire or Artillery fire onto the Objective as a means of suppression. Not sure that philosophy is as strong as it used to be.

    If we are going to have tactics follow the Marine Philosophy I grew up with many years ago; the 6.8 may be a good platform. If not; the keeping to the 5.56 and the SAW and M16 variants would be a better choice because of the # of rounds a Service member can carry (Along with the expenditure of ammunition called "SPRAY AND PRAY"). Those I have talked to that were in Afghanistan told me that the use of "Over Watch" snipers for convoys and movement of personnel was quite effective - without the massive expenditure of rounds. But then again; I can harken back to my days a a Lieutenant where a Radio connected to artillery or an Attack Aircraft providing close air support was the favorite TO (Table of Organization) weapon.

    My personal opinion; either the M-14 or M-16 for Fire Teams with an M-60 or a M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) remains great choices. Need for a "New" Rifle/SAW in a new caliber; I don't see the need. More training can never be a mistake.

    PS - An excellent old but goody read is Colonel S.L.A Marshalls book; A soldiers Load and Mobility of a Nation. You can download and read a pdf copy fo the book at: https://mcoecbamcoepwprd01.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/library/ebooks/Soldier's%20Load_dated%201980.pdf It used to be on the Commandant of the Marine Corps Reading List; and was mandatory reading for Lt's through LtCol's in the USMC.


    Rambling thoughts that may or may not add to the discussion.


    PPS: For house clearing - I much prefer a 12 Gauge Shotgun; or a 9mm Uzi as a 2nd choice.
    Last edited by MUSTANG; 10-17-2023 at 06:32 PM.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
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    It isn't chambered in 6.8mm. That is just a bullet diameter. It is chambered in 6.8x51mm not 6.8 SPC or SPC II, or 6.8 Western, or Six8

    Amazing that the Army posted this. They'd never post 223 vs 5.56 Nato or 308 vs 7.62x51

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I sure wouldn't mind having one of those m157's after reading the description

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    more carry weight bothers me.

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