Model 94 30-30 at 100 Yards. How?

[pricedo]

I had to start wearing glasses to see at distance around 58 or so... Now at 73, even with glasses I can't see the front sight as well as then. Group size has suffered as a result. But, I still have my best results with tang peep and a Lyman 17A front with the flat post insert. I use this combo on a couple of Winchester 94s and my pistol caliber Low-Wall.
Attachment 318792

I hunt without glasses which is fine if I'm using an appropriate optic on the gun ... by the time I got the glasses out of my pocket and cleaned off and on my eyes and the rifle aimed there'd be nothing to aim at ... any buck smart enuf to have lived long enuf to have a decent rack would be long gone

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks Larry, I shoot the same bullet but not quite "Full Bore". I may need to up my load some to be able to use that sight picture. I tried a Unique load, and it grouped well but did not shoot to the sights in any position. I couldn't raise my sight far enough. I went to a 2400 load at about 1750 FPS, and it works well at the highest sight position but not using a 6 o'clock hold. I'll load a few at higher velocity with a rifle powder and check results.

Mike

If your factory rear sight has two screws on the rear of it it sounds like it is adjusted all the way down on the rear base. If so, loosen the two screws and slide it up. That will give you a considerable on target elevation increase. With the elevator slide set on the low notch you can zero at 100 yards using the sliding rear sight. Then you'll have full elevation adjustment left with the other notches.

[indian joe]

6 oclock hold is fine if you can do it
I spent a lot of time in the field with crosshair scopes and then went back to irons for my fun shooting - still struggle mightily through a match keeping 6 oclock -- I just wanna aim at what I need to hit ! ---keep drifting back to dead centre hold -- I get in the zone and muscle memory takes over - when I started shooting blackpowder thats what I did and its stuck with me since.

Visiting some friends on a ranch in Nebraska a few years back and they decided to have turkey for lunch - there was a mob of about 50 come out near the barn mid morning - so they hand me a nice little scope sighted 17 rimfire to do the harvesting - "wheres it hit?" ---"dead on where we are" ---- so we gonna eat this critter, I figure gotta head shoot him, "can we get a bit closer" (it was about 50 yards) --"nah they'll scoot back in the trees" ok so I wait till one is nice and still, head up, crosshair on his eye ---at the last instant I drop that down two inches and let it off - got him too - why do that? ----muscle memory or subconscious whatever -- back home the main glass sight rifle I have is a 22/250 thats sighted in two inches high at 100yards for some longer shots on 'roos (and occasional fox) anything in reasonable range needs to sight under for a hit -- in the last second my brain switched and I hit that turkey in the neck two inches under his eye - nobody told me aim for the big part so we sure we eat ........................

[Lloyd Smale]

Yup, right on Lloyd.....

Who needs the sights anyways....I can instinct shoot my ole winny thutty-thutty and hit a deer in the eye across a thousand yard canyon with the deer on a bounding run while I's at a full gallop with my trusty stead riding bareback and hangin injin style on the off side shootin under the steads neck....yup, who needs them sights anyways.......

youd laugh larry but when i was a kid id go to camp with dad and the old timers would check thier zero for season by putting a paper plate up at 50 yards and if the hit it it was good enough. watched my dads buddy who hunted with an m1 carbine that he hand drilled hps into military ball ammo actual miss the plate and hit it the second time and said good enough. they used to laugh at him. he usually got his deer but never shot once. you knew who was shooting because it was 4 or 5 rounds about as fast as he could pull the trigger. gut wasnt poor either. he owned a popular bar in town and had a 700 06 and a ruger deerslayer 44mag with an old bushnell dot site on it but all he used was that m1 with a 15 round mag.

[Larry Gibson]

Yup, seen lots of those. As a LEO in NE Oregon I "put down" quite a few wounded critters during and after every hunting season just wounded by such "nimrods"......nothing funny there.....nor to brag about.

[FergusonTO35]

I know a gent who is a brilliant hunter and spends many hours scouting, putting out food plots and cameras, and building brush blinds by hand. His guns and ammo are a total afterthought. His main deer rifle is a Remington autoloader .270 with no-name scope in flimsy see-through mounts. I asked him and he honestly doesn't know what bullet weight it is sighted in with. The one time I saw him sight it in (to use the phrase loosely) he set up a pizza box at about 20 yards and fired one round into it. He looked at the impact, adjusted his scope some, and called it good. I guess the saving grace is, he seldom shoots at anything more than 30 yards away and is very patient. Still, I'm kind of amazed at how detail oriented he is about everything except his guns and ammo.

[braddock]

Marble, works for me with 6 o'clock hold. It's a 92 btw, got a williams peep on my 94 30/30 had a red dot but suffer from astigmatism so sold it.
94 is the one with the red dot on.

FWIW, off of a rest at 100 yards I got 2.5" 3 shot groups with cast boolits in the 30/30, nearer 6" offhand. If I'm lucky

[FergusonTO35]

My two 94's wear Lyman receiver sights and aftermarket fine bead front sights. I accept the fact that my realistic range without a scope is about 75 yards and reserve the 94's for thick woods duty. Which, they excel at due to their light weight, trim dimensions, and shotgun-like pointability.

[Bazoo]

I have a winchester 94, made in 1970. I have experimented to figure out what works for me, though at the 70 yard mark, not 100. I was getting around 4" groups, but by changing the sights and targets, I was able to get consistently around 1.5".

The stock rear sight was not conducive to accuracy, at least not when paired to my eyes. The round sighting notch was too large for the size of bead I have, with too much light on either side of and below the bead, and the notch part was not defined well enough from the "horns". I replaced it with a Marbles semi-buckhorn rear, which has a smaller notch. I then realized I do not care for the white diamond that the Marbles sight comes with, so I reversed the panel. Having an all black rear sight is much better.

I tried various sizes and styles of aiming points, but I have settled on a neon green square on a plain cardboard backer. 4" for 70 yards is what I found works for me, but I'd guess 6" or even 8" at 100 would be correct. Making the aiming point as large as you need to see it clearly is key to shooting decently.

[FergusonTO35]

Another problem with the Winchesters is so many of them have the sights clocked wrong or even have the dovetails pointing in different directions. There is no excuse for that kind of defect, period end of story.

[mnewcomb59]

You need to shoot at a bigger target. It is much easier to find the center of a trash can lid than it is to find the center of a 1" orange sticker. The center of both targets is the same size, but the larger target allows you FOCUS ON YOUR FRONT SIGHT AND LET THE TARGET BE BLURRY. This is how you shoot open sights. With your focus on the front sight. If you focus on the target your sight alignment isn't aligned.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm planning to spend serious trigger time making small groups with my .22's from field positions. My accuracy with sights ranges from ok to downright terrible from day to day. Building muscle memory is all I can think of to improve it. Yes, I am well within minute of deer to at least 150 yards with a scope no problem. But, I really enjoy shooting with sights and I want to get better with them. If I could become practiced enough to consistently make palm of the hand (I have big hands!) groups at 100 yards I would be very happy.

[BLAHUT]

I see folks say they are shooting 2-3'' groups at 100 yards with their model 94's. Mine is (Mid 80's vintage) accurate at shorter ranges but the front sight more than covers a complete rifle target at 100 yards and I can barely keep it on the paper. Based on accuracy at shorter range I know the rifle can do better. So, my question is, are the guys shooting accurately at 100 yards doing it with factory sights? If so, what sight picture are you using? If using aftermarket sights, what are you using?
I am going to participate in some cast bullet rifle competitions at my local range and need to be able to hit 100-yard steel targets if I do my part.

Thanks
Mike

You can try a double peep, peep in back and aperture in front; otherwise a peep in back and a fine front sight post.....
Or use a scope...

[WILCO]

I should say: any accuracy claim from me refers to shooting from a rest…..

With a proper stance, I do "Okay" offhanded.
Last Marlin lever action that I shot, was offhanded with iron sights and reloads.
50 yds. and front sight dead on got me hits.
Pumpkin on a stick brought me flying mud and an occasional connection.

[atr]

That sight picture that Larry posted is the one I use. My open sights on the 94 along with aging eyes limits my accurate shooting to around the 75 yard range, and shooting from the kneeling position. I have practiced at 100 yds but found that my groups, if you can call them that, are too large and I don't want to just wound a critter.
best atr

[redhawk0]

I had some issues with the open sites as well. I used a red fiber optic front site with a green double dot rear. It helped a lot for seeing the sites and helps keep things on target. I only shoot 50 yards open sites...I figure if I site in 1" high at 50 yards for the 30-30...I'll be just fine out to 100. I went with HiViz....I'm happy.

redhawk

[Texas by God]

I’m looking at “The Perfect Adapter”mount to put the Burris FF3 on my 94.
I’m still pondering it, though.
I made a rear sight mount but I think I’d like this one better.


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[firefly1957]

My grandfathers "94" is in ownership of the fourth generation when I was a teenager I could hit a pop can on the berm behind the 100 yard targets every time with the gun and a Williams receiver sight . My son has the gun today and I have another 30-30 a 1953 Marlin 336 it shoots groups under 2 inches at 100 yards with cast bullets and is scoped .

I have heard some weird and funny tales from old hunters I stopped doubting most of them when I saw them reproduce the results !
Lloyd Smale my grandfather was born in Calumet in 1898 he sometimes carried a M-1 out deer hunting a five round magazine in it and a 15 round in his coat pocket . He always used hunting ammo with 110 grain hollow points never full metal jacket ammo. That I know he never got a deer with it and I consider it to light for deer hunting . One of grandpa's friends took a lot of deer with a M-1 carbine none during season he cut wood for a living and deer would often approach close while the chain saw was running and he poached them ,turkeys and who knows what else!

[FergusonTO35]

One big problem for me is, it can be difficult to see exactly what spot I'm aiming at even with a six o' clock hold. My eyesight is still good enough to where I don't need glasses for most things, but it's pretty common that my groupings can jump around because I am aiming at a slightly different spot each time and don't realize it.

[Larry Gibson]

Back before my cataract surgery I was in the position of not being able to use the iron sights at all. Reason was with barrels shorter than 26" I just couldn't see the front sight clear enough to focus on it. With enough lens to see the front sight clearly the target was totally gone. I began converting my shorter barreled rifles to "scout" configuration. I quickly learned the proper mounting of the scope was vitally important to proper use, especially for hunting. Here is the M94 Carbine I got for my 14th birthday. Yes, it has been refinished as it rattled around behind the seat of my stepfather's PU for many years before my brother gave it back to me. Mechanically it was in excellent condition but just had a lot of dings, dents and scratches on the exterior. I've put a post front sight and a Lyman receiver sight on it along with a Burris 1.5X scout scope in the Burris scout mount made for the M94. With 125, 130, 150 or 170 gr commercial jacketed it will still put 8 shots (magazine capacity + 1 up the spout) into close to 1 moa to 1 3/4 moa depending on the bullets used. My top end load with a 311041 over LeveRevolution runs 2200+ fps and will stay inside 2 moa all day long whether I'm using the scope or the receiver sight which I can now use again after the cataract surger gave me 20/20 vision in my right eye.