Quiet 45-70 loads

[fixit]

I've noticed a number of threads on the 45-70, and got to wondering....has anyone fiddled with the idea of cat sneeze sound level loads that would consistently kill a deer up to 100 yards?

[HWooldridge]

Try keyword “collar button”. Lots of reading material.

[M-Tecs]

I would go the other way for something to kill deer out to a hundred yards. I would want bullets no less than 300 grains with the 400 and 500 being preferred. Some loads bellow.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...iet-45-70-load

[Larry Gibson]

W/o the use of a suppressor, nothing is going to be an effective "cat's sneeze" load that will be effective on deer out to 100 yards. Perhaps to 50 yards though. I push a 210 gr Rapine 460210 at 950 fps out of my TDs. Loaded over just 6 gr of Bullseye it is relatively quiet. However, it loses accuracy beyond 50 yards. My load with the 2750 gr Rapine 460250 over 8 gr Bullseye runs 1050 fps and would, indeed, be effective on deer at 100 yards. However, the noise level is similar to a 45 ACP out of a 5" pistol.

[Recycled bullet]

Get the longest barrel that you can and then test a bunch of different powders and bullets.

Sent from my moto g power (2022) using Tapatalk

[Sgt H]

I am going to agree with Larry on the cat sneeze load and deer, wrong tool for the job. That said I load 12 grains of Unique under a 300-350 grain boolit. These run 1100-1150fps and are pretty quiet out of my 26" 1886 and 30" Sharps. Use these for shorter range gong matches out to 250-300 yards. My load for deer is the Lyman/Gould hollow point, cast soft over 30 grains of 5744 and is very effective.

[fixit]

I was actually contemplating something along the lines of a 405 flat point at barely subsonic speed, a fast powder that will burn out in 32 inches, (Buffalo classic), and a near dead soft bullet. I've fiddled with cat sneezes in the thirty caliber range, but the idea of a big heavy bullet that doesn't make a big bang is intriguing. I'm not looking for silencer level noise, but something that doesn't rattle the whole forest!

[Larry Gibson]

Try starting with Unique at 8 gr and work up to 10.5 gr. No filler or wad.

[firefly1957]

I have not I do load a Lee R.E.A.L. 200 grain bullet sized .457" over 5 grains of Red Dot (+ filler) I get 850 f/s and tight 25 yard groups basically making it a .45 acp load to light for deer for my thinking. It does shoot point of aim at 25 yards with my Marlin sighted at 100 yards with modern hunting load .

IF for some reason I needed a heavy deer load that was quiet a heavy bullet at 1000 f/s would be a good choice but remember you are going to have a rainbow trajectory .

[GhostHawk]

Red Dot, 300 gr bullet and start at 10 grains and work down to 6 or so.

Going to have some rainbow, but it should do it and be fairly quiet.

I have shot a fair amount of .444marlin at 6.5 grains of Red Dot under a 240 gr cast and it is not near as loud as a full case of slower powder.

[technojock]

I'd love to have a Collar Button mold but they always seem to be out of stock when I can afford one...

[Good Cheer]

If I still had a 45-70 I'd try out this 460-236-SP.
Working my way around to using it in muzzleloaders instead.

[Digital Dan]

Cat sneeze might be a matter of who hears what. 65 gr of Lord Black and a 500 grain bullet is not loud to the recipient if properly placed.

[Woodtroll]

Haha! I guess that could be true, especially if the distance was a couple hundred yards or more.

[elmacgyver0]

You need to buy a suppressor, buy it now and a year from now you can enjoy it.
I wish I had done it long ago, I didn't because of all the hype about them being removed from the NFA.
I finally realized that dog would never hunt, so I bought one that works on everything .45-70 on down.
Now I have two more in ATF jail.
Of course, if you are in one of the unlucky states, you're stuck.
There is always big bore PCP, but that may be loud too, I don't know, I have no experience with those.

[P Flados]

For fast powders, here is a sample of Quickload estimates. Note that I have the data sorted with lowest muzzle pressure on top.

Note also that I ran it at 1100 fps. Quickload has a problem finding a solution for some powders if the selected velocity is too low. To stay subsonic, you will probably need to drop charges between 1 and 2 gr. If I was doing this experiment I would start at say 0.5 below the charge shown and load a ladder down to find where the crack goes away. Then load say 0.2 grs below that to make sure individual rounds stay subsonic.

Bullet             : .457, 405, LYM LFN 457193
Useable Case Capaci: 54.841 grain H2O = 3.561 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.550 inch = 64.77 mm
Barrel Length      : 32.0 inch = 812.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps or 335 m/s
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N310                     36.1     10.6     0.69    1100   100.0    22844     540   2.976
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star            57.8     14.6     0.94    1100   100.0    21938     540   3.003
Hodgdon Clays                       44.3     10.7     0.69    1100   100.0    23604     544   2.945
IMR TrailBoss                       85.5     14.6     0.94    1100   100.0    20663     547   3.020
Norma R1                            44.9     11.5     0.74    1100   100.0    21220     560   3.003
Hodgdon TiteGroup                   27.6     11.4     0.74    1100   100.0    19642     561   3.025
Accurate Solo 1000                  39.0     10.9     0.71    1100   100.0    19309     564   3.024
Vihtavuori N320                     37.1     11.0     0.71    1100   100.0    18608     564   3.065
Alliant RED DOT                     41.1     10.3     0.67    1100   100.0    19541     570   3.032
Alliant GREEN DOT                   38.3     10.8     0.70    1100   100.0    18148     575   3.055
Hodgdon HP38                        27.3     11.5     0.75    1100   100.0    17255     576   3.084
Accurate Solo 1250                  37.8     11.4     0.74    1100   100.0    16404     579   3.114
Accurate Nitro 100                  37.6      9.9     0.64    1100   100.0    18310     581   3.050
Ramshot Zip                         27.2     11.6     0.75    1100   100.0    16865     581   3.096
Shooters World Sparta 100           37.6      9.9     0.64    1100   100.0    18310     581   3.050
Winchester 231                      30.3     11.6     0.75    1100   100.0    16865     581   3.096
Shooters World Clean Shot           25.2     10.7     0.69    1100   100.0    16596     584   3.093
Vihtavuori N330                     34.5     11.4     0.74    1100   100.0    15848     590   3.151
Hodgdon Universal                   33.8     11.0     0.71    1100   100.0    15621     598   3.142
Vihtavuori N340                     34.4     11.5     0.75    1100   100.0    14109     608   3.198
Shooters World Ultimate Pistol      21.4     10.7     0.69    1100   100.0    14085     615   3.191
Accurate No.2                       32.8     11.0     0.71    1100   100.0    13857     617   3.190
Alliant UNIQUE                      33.1     10.8     0.70    1100   100.0    13173     629   3.241
Ramshot Silhouette                  27.3     12.0     0.78    1100   100.0    12956     633   3.248
Winchester WAP                      27.3     12.0     0.78    1100   100.0    12878     634   3.251
Alliant HERCO                       35.9     11.4     0.74    1100   100.0    12045     655   3.303
Winchester 540                      24.1     12.6     0.81    1100   100.0    11769     655   3.312
Ramshot True Blue                   24.5     12.6     0.81    1100   100.0    11739     656   3.314
Hodgdon Longshot                    24.7     12.5     0.81    1100   100.0    11563     661   3.329
Vihtavuori N350                     33.3     12.3     0.80    1100   100.0    11398     665   3.345
Vihtavuori 3N37                     31.6     12.3     0.80    1100   100.0    11207     673   3.362
Hodgdon HS-6                        25.5     12.8     0.83    1100   100.0    11150     674   3.354
Accurate No.5                       22.5     11.8     0.76    1100   100.0    10520     703   3.392
Shooters World Auto Pistol          22.5     11.8     0.76    1100   100.0    10512     704   3.393
Alliant POWER PISTOL                27.7     11.1     0.72    1100   100.0     9252     772   3.515

[Earl54]

Have a TC 45 cal. maxi ball mould, cast of stick on ww, seated flush, 5gr bullseye in a 18 inch 45/70 is pretty effective out to 50yds on 120ish pound deer and hogs. And its pretty quiet.

[gc45]

Have killed (cleanly) two deer with lung shots at around 100yrds using 330gr grain Gould cast boolits and 10 grains of Unique. Both deere made about 5-6 quick steps before falling over and were dead when I walked to them. I have a friend who has killed many deer using an 11gr load, we both use antique Winchester 1886 rifles with 26 inch octagon barrels. Of course boolit placement is critical and both of our rifles and loads are just that, accurate and concistant shot to shot. Our ammo is loaded using a toilet paper wad on the powder.

[Seeker]

One of my favorite and economical 45-70 loads is 12gr of Bullseye behind a rcbs 405 gr boolit at right around 1100 fps.

[MT Gianni]

Paco Kelly had a lot of cat sneeze loads. The key is heavy for caliber and long barrels. He expected the max range to be 20-25 yards usefulness. I don't think you're getting to 100 yards without a can.