Been hand loading and making bullets for years. But I'm having a special problem with a g21 and kkm barrel
Shooting a 230 gr. Swc out of my lee mold. Oal is right, lube is right. Getting occasional key holeing and crappy accurracy. Know this load works with jacketed bullets 5 grs. Hp38 like ringing a bell. Could my alloy be to soft?
Last edited by jtwodogs; 10-06-2023 at 09:54 AM.
what's the boolit diameter?
What's the kkm barrel groove diameter?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001
Lead bullet after sizing is .452, jacketed is .451.
Hodgdon reloading manual has same specs for jacketed and lead. Have not slugged my barrel. The reason I asked about alloy softness when I started you could drop a bullet on laminate flooring and cause a flat place, those I even had an occasional going into battery issue
So I re did a batch with added solder. These at least go into battery and accuracy did improve a little but still crappy and the occasional key hole. Don't have a brinnel tester. Never slugged a barrel
Bullet is too small. Find a fatter one.
The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"
Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!
Perhaps you can tell us what the source of your lead is? That will help us guess about the alloy hardness. Tin alone does not do a lot to increase hardness, but if you have been making bullets for years, you already know that. But then you would also know how important it is to have an idea how hard the alloy is as well... Pure lead? Lead pipe and soldered joints? Roof flashing? Clip on WW? Mystery metal completely unknown?
Wheel weights mostly, but a mixed bag of whatever could be scrounged. I know my .450 marlin bullets are as hard as a politicians heart. Somewhere in there I've gotten some soft stuff. I know tin will not do it but wondering if if add enough 60/40 solder that's seems pretty hard if that would do it
Diameter and/ or BHN not correct. Adding Rotometals linotype fixes both.
Slug the barrel and know for sure. If you need a fatter bullet powder coating can bump up the diameter a little bit. If you were shooting undersized bullets the gas blow by could have given you some barrel leading. Check your barrel to see if it had streaks of leading in the bore. If it does, use the search function on this site to hear about good ways to remove it. Barrel leading will cause crappy accuracy.
One more possibly is the brass is sizing the bullet down. Pull one and check.
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I've shot a ton of cast bullets [185-235 gr] in a multitude of 45 ACP handguns, subguns, SSs, semi-auto rifles and several bolt guns. All of them were sized .452 or .451. Never had any leading or keyholing. It's either the alloy or the lube.
Try COWWs + 2% tin. Let AC 14 days before sizing or loading. If WQ'd wait 2 days/48 hours.
If you're getting leading what makes you think the "lube is right"?
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
Pretty sure it the softness. Just don't want to break down and buy the rotometal 30% antimony alloy by the time you pay for you could buy jacketed bullets. Lube was tumble lube alox always used it before with no problem. Think if I do try it again I will use powder coat
Broke down and bought a bar from rotometal of 30% antimony.
Right now I can barely scratch a bullet I'm throwing with my finger nail. Wonder how much of the bar I should add per lee melting pot. I want a hard bullet just for accuracy. Not worried about its terminal ballistic performance.
It is a common practice to check your load data from more than one reference. Lyman 47th reloading handbook shows the max load for the 230 grain LRN bullet at 5.0 grains of HP-38 and the max load for the Similar weight jacketed bullet as 5.3 grains HP-38. Your reloading experience would suggest that you back off your current load and work up to the accurate load that will cycle your slide. Since you are a long time reloader, you probably know that the cast bullet should be a minimum of .001" larger than groove diameter and possibly .002" larger. Using the actual barrel chamber for a gauge, drop a loaded round into the barrel with the muzzle pointed vertically down and it should fall into place. Then invert the barrel and it should fall out of it's own weight. This is the plunk test. While LLA does work as a bullet lube, it is not always the best choice in all barrels. If you have any soft wax lube, apply with your fingers to a sample and shoot for groups after you have adjusted your powder charge and see if that clears up the key holing.
Doing the "plunck" test after I initially had problems going into battery. Yeah I may back off a little but recoil with the 5 grains was super mild. Most of my years experience reloading has been with jacketed. I'm just wondering also about the match chamber of the kkm vs stock barrel. May not be that much difference.
I was going with the 5 grains because of all the literature I read about reproduction of military hard ball round sans the bullseye powder which seems to be scarce as hens teeth
I also noticed when I dropped the slide on a live round and then ejected it, there was the faintess mark of a semi circle ring right at the edge of the bullet brass intersection. I have loaded it shorter than the recommended 1.2 oal, and still get it. I'm wondering if I need to go even shorter ie right at the base of the trunk. Right now ther is probably 1/16th of an inch showing.
The sized bullets diameter should be a tiny bit smaller in diameter to fit the barrels fhroat.
Take a soft, large diameter , unsized bullet and with the barrel out of the gun, tap bullets into throat & muzzle. Measure.
Like this 9mm.
9MM Tapped in to throat.
If you are using this boolit with Lee's tumble lube and shooting it with a near MAX load, even in the low pressure 45acp, you'll probably gonna have problems. I've only had luck with that boolit with slow loads.
https://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-tl452-230tc
I think your issue is a combination of boolit design, lube, and load.
Good Luck.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001
Yeah I'm actually using the other lee designed. 45, but I think your right.
Would help greatly to know specifically which Lee bullet and what lube?
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
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