Occasionally key holeing and crappy accuracy

[jtwodogs]

[https://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-452-230tc
Lee alox "Mule Snot"

[243winxb]

Link dont work. Pick a number.

Now it works #7


Large BB- SOFT lead, = Skidding at muzzle.


How is the crown on the muzzle of this new barrel. Cut square?

[jtwodogs]

Crown seems to be perfect. Never had a problem with kkm barrels (new). As I mentioned previously it shoots jacketed bullets lights out.

[Dusty Bannister]

Is this the first straight wall Semi-auto pistol cast bullet reloading experience? Since I am understanding that you chose to use the same powder charge for the cast bullet as used for the jacketed bullet, did you change the taper crimp when you changed from Jacketed. If you did not, there is a lot less resistance with cast lead and you will result in over crimping and that reduces the bullet diameter no matter what you started with.

What is the micrometer reading at the case mouth on your cast bullet reload? Cast bullets play by different rules than jacketed bullets.

[Larry Gibson]

[https://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-452-230tc
Lee alox "Mule Snot"

Been using that bullet for the last few years in my own M1911, P14 and S&W revolver. Also, in my 2 Uberti SAs in 45 Colt and one with an additional 45 ACP cylinder. It also shoots quite well in my 45 Colt M1873 rifle and a M98 Mauser in 45 ACP. I've no problems with keyholing nor do I get any leading. All the bullets have been sized .452. My standard 54 ACP load with that bullet is 5 gr of Bullseye which is pretty similar to your load.

I suspect a bit harder alloy will help with the keyholing.

As to the leading, while I do not use LLA on that particular bullet, I do use LLA on other similar cast bullets. Are you using the LLA as per Lee's instructions? The key is to use a light coat that just give the bullet a golden hue. Then let that coat dry thoroughly before sizing. the second coat should also be a light coat and, again, let dry thoroughly.

[jtwodogs]

The more I talk about it, and the more input I get I'm almost convinced it's a hardness issue. At least that's first on the list to change of the list of variables.if

[dondiego]

Broke down and bought a bar from rotometal of 30% antimony.
Right now I can barely scratch a bullet I'm throwing with my finger nail. Wonder how much of the bar I should add per lee melting pot. I want a hard bullet just for accuracy. Not worried about its terminal ballistic performance.

I have had the best accuracy from softer bullets in the 45 ACP. Why do you insist on such hardnes?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The more I talk about it, and the more input I get I'm almost convinced it's a hardness issue. At least that's first on the list to change of the list of variables.if

well, time to buy some alloy. Let us know how it works out for your gun.

[TurnipEaterDown]

...
Right now I can barely scratch a bullet I'm throwing with my finger nail. ....

Puzzled by the "too soft" comments.

Of course, the testing method is rather uncorrelated, and clues on reloading process are almost nonexistent.

If you find that your accuracy does not improve w/ hardening the bullet, look into your loading setup - such as dies used, bullet size, seating, etc. What goes in isn't necessarily what comes out (in a manner of speaking).
If you are seating a cast bullet significantly larger in diameter than jacketed, and using dies for jacketed, you could be introducing issues in size, alignment, base damage, etc.

BTW: Common Binary Solder. The first number is Tin, second Lead for common solder. 60/40 -- 60% Tin, 40% Lead. Adding this is just adding Tin.

[bruce381]

do you use a lee factory crimp die? I have found for me they size DOWM my .4525 bullets to less than .451 = keyholes

[muskeg13]

STOP! Everybody is too kind. Why are you adamant against slugging your bore? Claiming to be a reloader and caster for a while, you should know how critical the bore diameter is to achieving accuracy with cast bullets. Don't waste everybody's time, including your own, speculating what the problem is until you slug your bore. If your bore to bullet dimensions are right, then, you can zero in other potential problems with lube and alloy hardness.

[fredj338]

Barrels can be funny. I have a BHP that is very accurate with jacketed & HP38/W231. When I tried it with equiv lead bullet, really crappy accuracy. Switching to Unique, shot better than the jacketed.
I have a friend that cant get his lead bullets to shoot well in his Glock using TG. With several other powders his accuracy is exc.
Try pulling a loaded bullet & measure, see it you are not sizig down during seating & crimping.
FWIW, I dont slug bores. I haev too many guns in the same caliber to bother with diff loads. I have never had accuracy issues with 0.001" or 0.002" over jacketed. That is 95% handgun loads.

[gwpercle]

Check your bore size ... it ain't rocket science , If I can slug a barrel anyone can slug a barrel .

Make sure your boolit isn't getting sized down when seating ...factory crimp dies will do it and taper crimping too much will do it and ...be sure and expand the case for a cast bullet with a M-die type ( NOE type expander is best) expander .
Even if the boolit is the correct size ... it can get squeezed down smaller during loading ... make sure this isn't happening .
Pull down one of your loaded rounds , use an inertia puller , and measure the boolit diameter... is it the right size .
Boolit size beats boolit hardness Seven Ways to Sunday ... I shoot 9mm luger and 45 acp with a 50-50 mix COWW and scrap lead , which has a bhn of only 8-9 with good accuracy and no leading ... But I go the extra mile to make sure the boolits don't get swaged down while loading .
Gary

[jimb16]

90% of the time, leading is caused by undersized bullets, not by soft lead UNLESS the velocity is just TOO HIGH. I find that unlikely. Slug the barrel. Size the cast bullet 1-2 thousandths larger. Make sure you expand the cases properly and bell or step the case mouth (M-die). Seat the bullet and use the absolute minimum crimp that you can get away with; preferably a slight roll crimp or very slight taper crimp. Your problem should disappear.

[hermans]

I've shot a ton of cast bullets [185-235 gr] in a multitude of 45 ACP handguns, subguns, SSs, semi-auto rifles and several bolt guns. All of them were sized .452 or .451. Never had any leading or keyholing. It's either the alloy or the lube.

Try COWWs + 2% tin. Let AC 14 days before sizing or loading. If WQ'd wait 2 days/48 hours.

If you're getting leading what makes you think the "lube is right"?

What Mr Gibson said......

[wv109323]

I don't think it is lead hardnes in the .45 acp. Soft swaged bullets work quite well in the .45 acp. One sure way to determine if it is lead hardness is back the load down to around 4.4 g. If you still get keyholes it is not lead hardness.
First thing I would look at is bullet diameter after seating. About all die manufacturers do not expand the case mouth enough for cast boolits.
A taper crimp of .469 to .470 is needed for best accuracy.

[popper]

Bullet size. Probably just undersize and you get some leading till it gets shot out. Tumbling bullet caused by undersized (lots of leading strips), poor accuracy til the leading gets shot out, rinse and repeat.

[jtwodogs]

Well I got my kkm barre⁷l back recut the chamber and throated for mne.
I still have to shorten oal to 1.82 to get it to ka-plunck in the chamber which I think is more a factor of my heavy powder coat. So I have dropped the load to 4.5 of hp38 on my 230 gr. Tc lee bullet. No more key holeing accuracy has improved but still have some flyers. No leading, barrel clean as a pin. Don't have a chronograph, but recoil feels substantial, assuming the shorter oal has increased the pressure.
I believe I increased the hardness by adding some high antimony from a bar I ordered from rotometal.

[Dusty Bannister]

Changing more than one thing at a time will only add to your confusion. So did you seat the bullet too long and then seat deeper until the case rim was even with the barrel hood, or did you keep crimping until the cartridge dropped freely in and out of the chamber when the barrel was turned from muzzle down to muzzle up.

[fredj338]

I doubt its bullet hardness. I shoot range lead with good accuracy but never used Alox. Now I only shoot PC bullets, alloy is even less of an issue but I still look for BHN8-9 for 45. Load a bullet then pull it & measure the as loaded dia & see if it is sizing down when seating.