Questions; .223 swaged bullets

[contender1]

Ok, I've been entering the world of swaging .223 bullets out of .22 RF brass.

A few stumbles & rookie mistakes,, but I've managed to make several bullets so far.

I'm using my RockChucker press, and Corbin dies. The point form die is a HP type.

My cores & jackets are looking very good, no problems.Once I get to the point forming part,, I see a few issues.

Issue #1; The HP often come out with what appears as a little cut-out or whatever on one small part of the HP hole. Instead of a complete round hole, it has a little dip, depression, or whatever you;d call it. As if a small part of the jacket is either missing of maybe folding into the hole.
Thoughts?

Issue #2; And I may know why this is happening. I seem to get a small "dent" in the jacket often. I'm THINKING it may be related to the amount of lube I'm using. When I go to form a bullet in the point form, I have a small amount of lube on my fingers, and gently roll the jacketed core between my fingers to coat it all around. And I truly do try to be conservative in the amount of lube I put on my fingers. But the dent always appears like a small "dot" near the top & never (from what I can tell,) the same spot.
Thoughts?

[Pipefitter]

What headstamp brass are you using for jackets? And what weight are you trying for?
Most of the rimfire jackets I have used weigh about 9-10 grains, you can try to increase the weight of the core to make a 62 grain bullet, which will bring the lead up to the point of the jacket. Your annealing temperature may have something to do with the folded tips. I have found that not enough heat in the annealing step will leave the brass too hard, causing folded tips and uneven point forming. Try sticking with one brand of Rf brass and experiment with different annealing temperatures to start (and keep notes on what works and what doesn't).

As for the dents in the finished bullet, yes it can be too much lube in the die or on the bullet. There is a fine line between too much lube (dents in the finished bullet), and not enough lube (a bullet stuck in the point forming die). Generally, if you don't have rough extraction when you eject from the core seating step you should already have enough lube on the jacket to point form.

[MUSTANG]

To ride on pipe fitters comments - I use a spray on Lanolin lube for my 22LR swaging. (91% alcohol with liquid Lanolin as the lube). For me that avoids all the lube dents. For .30 caliber work I lube with a "Bag Balm" I get at the pharmacy, very slight amount on thumb and index finger; roll brass/copper jacket between the thumb and finger for even lubing.

[contender1]

Thanks for the thoughts.

I have separated my RF brass by mfg. It happens to all brands. I'm going for the 55 grn bullets, and have zero issues with my cores & such. In fact,, weighing my jacketed cores,, they are pretty uniform.
Annealing them,, I use a Lee casting pot, dipper type, with a steel lid. I have a thermometer that I watch the temp with. I stir my brass around and make sure it all gets a good dose of heat. I'll have to see if I can make some adjustments there. Too bad I've already got several hundred cored cases ready to point form.

I'm using Corbin swaging lube. I squeeze just a SMALL dab onto a finger, and rub my fingers together, then roll several bullets between the fingers until my fingers get to feeling "dry." I've had a few stuck cases,,, and it's no fun to remove them. But I also understand the "too much lube" attitude too. Kinda figured it may be my issue.

My Corbin point form die has a thin "rod" of about .060 diameter to make the HP in the bullet. I was thinking of trying to remove it, and try forming a few bullets w/o the thin rod.

Thoughts about this?

[deltaenterprizes]

Are these new CH dies?
I only remember CH making pistol caliber swaging dies.

[contender1]

Oops,, my mistake.

My mind was thinking one thing,,, and I typed something else. Not CH,, but Corbin dies.

I told ya I was new to swaging,,,! (Picture an embarrassed newbie.)

[SSG_Reloader]

That thin rod isn't for forming an open tip, it serves as the ejection component of the system. It actually can create a problem if the ejection pin contacts the lead or if the jacket closes in around it. This can cause a stuck bullet. The open tip of these projectiles only close so far which is pretty much up until the ejection pin hole size. The jacket should close in to that diameter (the metplat can't get any more pointed that that. It's maxed out in relation to the size of the ejection pin diameter) and then the ejection pin should contact the jacket to most efficiently eject the bullet. It's probably .062" which I believe is standard for their ejection pins. As another example, a .308 requires a little larger ejection pin to easily eject a projectile. So say a .081 pin for .308, this is the smallest metplat you could achieve on such a 308 die like that.

DO NOT REMOVE THAT AND SHOVE A SEATED CORE/ JACKET UP INTO THE PF DIE. YOU WILL LOOSE YOUR ABILITY TO EJECT THE NEWLY FORMED BULLET.

[contender1]

SSG Reloader,, MANY thanks for the knowledge. This is why I ask questions first. (Usually!)

[SSG_Reloader]

I've also found 2 issues that can result in the tips having folds. A) not enough annealjng was done and B) not enough support or lead. If you make lighter bullets and the lead does not creep up closer to the tip as you form the ogive in the point form die, there isnt enough support during the process and the jacket can fold in. This would obviously be related to lighter bullets of course. If you lead is creeping up closer to the tip though, usually 55 and above, this probably doesn't apply and look to your annealing. I had the same folding issue when I started but it was fixed when I evenly annealled the jackets but then came accross the issue again when I tried making light bullets using untrimmed jackets. It's all a learning process.... but super satisfying to me.

[contender1]

Thanks.
I haven't had much time lately to delve into experimenting on what may be the cause. Dern work & other stuff cutting into my fun time!
My annealing was done in a Lee pot, and I figured I had it plenty hot & long enough because I had a few cases I had to trash due to deformation after annealing. But I will keep all this in mind, and try different things to see what I'm doing wrong.

[MUSTANG]

Thanks.
I haven't had much time lately to delve into experimenting on what may be the cause. Dern work & other stuff cutting into my fun time!
My annealing was done in a Lee pot, and I figured I had it plenty hot & long enough because I had a few cases I had to trash due to deformation after annealing. But I will keep all this in mind, and try different things to see what I'm doing wrong.

If you have an electric Range and oven; the self cleaning mode is where I would try some 22LR annealing (not your whole hoard - just 40 to 50). AFTER deriming; heat treat these 22LR jackets in the self clean mode. Then do your core swage and then point form. I used to do it this way - but then we had a power surge that killed all the transformers and circuit board devices in the house; stove controls were killed. So, I replaced the electric range with a Propane Range, which also acts as a third back up heat source for the Montana Home.

Keep in mind that the self cleaning gets very hot. I would NOT use an aluminum pan; go steel for holding the brass 22LR derived cases for heat treating.

[contender1]

I may have had too many cases in the Lee pot when I was annealing them. I'm going to try & do a smaller batch next time.