PCP on order

[jsizemore]

Thanks for the heads up on the FX No-Limit Rings.

I've had the Avengex for a little better than a week. I wanted to shoot the gun a little so we could get used to each other. The only changes I've done to the rifle is to adjust the regulator and hammer spring adjustment. They are the key to tuning the rifle. I've only shot the 14.5gr RWS Superdome in it so far and I'm pretty sure the rifle doesn't like them. Groups are terrible. The best 10 shot group is 1.558" at 30 yards. The worst is double that. The RWS pellets have worked fine in my Theoben break barrel but the Avengex is a different animal. The front part of the pellet has a diameter of .217 which seems to be standard groove for air rifle 22 barrels. My old batch of pellets have a skirt dimension of .2225" and the newer is .2254". That seems to be a bunch of swageing in the chamber to me. Throat in the barrel seems to be pretty abrupt like most of the pistol barrels we see today. The barrel air transport hole has a pretty jagged saw tooth pattern on one edge from burrs being pushed up when drill punched the hole and the burrs were busted out. Didn't appear that any time was taken to clean the bore after the manufacturing processes. I spent 5.5 hours cleaning and smoothing the bore. The crown still showed burrs on the edges of the lands where the band saw had cut it to length. Patches left fuzz with every pass until I got the JB bore compound to do it's thing. The barrel is real easy to remove and clamp to the bench. Barrel and shroud come off as one piece. Teslong showed every thing that was going on in there.

Now for the good part. The rest of the rifle is a gem. I found everything easy to operate and worked like it should. When I stopped shooting to reload the mag, the reg pressure would creep 150 psi but that didn't mean the shot didn't go to group. After the first shot reg pressure stayed right on for the rest of the string. Did matter if the cylinder was at 4k or 2K. Trigger was the same shot after shot. The rifle has little to no recoil. Once set on the bag you only need to steer the rifle with your thumb and do your trigger work.

I've got some JSB Jumbo Heavy 18 grain pellets coming which I hope will make my group woes go away. It may sound like I don't like the rifle. I like it a bunch and look forward to shooting it. Extreme spreads are never more than 20 fps and standard deviations are single digit. So far.

[dverna]

Don’t discount the Crosman Premier pellets. Cheap but accurate in many guns.

Good luck

[jsizemore]

Today's update and it's a good one. I cleaned the barrel after shooting last night and stuck the Teslong in there after I was done. I referenced everything from the muzzle end lands. It's got 12 so the clock thing works good. The image of the air transfer hole in the barrels chamber stuck in my mind. The hole was drilled through the leade of the throat. It is through most of one land. Where the 2 meet there's a sharp break like a 1911's feed ramp and chamber junction. I thought about it possibly displacing part of the skirt on those wide bottom RWS pellets. Stopped by the Home Depot after breakfast to pick up a 3/16" wood dowel and a 1/8" brass rod. I stopped by the PO to pick up my JSB exact jumbo heavy diablo 18gr pellets that had been delivered. At the house I seated a JSB and then used the 3/16 dowel down the muzzle to knock the pellet out of the chamber. It didn't look too bad but was off a liitle. I marked the pellet skirt with a sharpie and seated it. Looked like 1 land mark was a little off from the ones on either side. Tried another and it did the same thing. I removed the barrel and touched up the edge between the land and air hole with a kratex polishing tip on the dremel It already had a bit of curve from previous use. I spent maybe 2 SECONDS touch that edge to get it down to look like a 1911 throated for SWCs. Flushed and patched the barrel then reinstalled and checked a pellet. It looked better so I reinstalled the scope and shot a couple groups. I didn't shoot any groups with the JSBs before the polish job. I turned the reg to 1750 and turned 1.5 turns in on the hammer spring after recharging the cylinder to 4k psi. First group was .340. Second was .303. At 30 yards.

The skirt diameters on the JSBs are .003" smaller than the RWS I had shot. I can't really say if what I did made a difference, All I know is it shoots like a different rifle. More better.

[jsizemore]

Rifle still doesn't like the RWS Superdome.

[chutesnreloads]

Been nice to try the JSB pellet before the modification. You know the superdomes aren't happy in it. Definetely try the Crosman pellets as Don suggested. They're inexpensive and shoot well through a lot of different guns. Funny thing in my experience is they don't do as well in the
Crosman/Benjamin guns.
In all my non-Crosman guns, The Crosman Premier pellets shoot 2nd or 3rd most accurate of all the pellets I've tried. I'd need to shoot a LOT
more groups and do a LOT of measuring to be absolutely sure if they're 2nd or 3rd place. They're near as good as the best shooters enough that I only use the more expensive pellets shooting longer shots or IF I shot competition where score matters. There are THAT good.
Try 'em

[jsizemore]

I setup a temporary bench (2 x 4 sawhorses and 6' piece of 1 3/4" x 16" lam beam) at the back of the house. Pasture fence is exactly 30 yards. Been shooting a little everyday to get used to the Avengex. Past 2 days shooting has been on hold because of the tropical storm that moved through. 14.3 Crosman Premiers showed up yesterday. Got the Hawke 4-12-40 AO mil dot scope mounted too. Found a set of Millet windage adjustable weaver style high 1" rings at the local gunshop. $3.16 out the door missing 2 ring screws which I have plenty. I like 'em because you can keep the scope optically centered (windagewise anyway) so turret adjustments are .25 moa. After getting them on by equal turns out and in on the milled picatinny base on the receiver, it was only 1.5 moa off. That's pretty darn good. Elevation had to be brought down 2.75 moa at 30 yards. With 42.75 moa up and 42.75 moa down (advertised 50 up/ 50 down) I think I got enough elevation adjustment.

I got a sweet spot for the reg (regulator) pressure and HS (hammer spring) turns in shooting the JSB Diablo 18's. Tried quarter turn less and more but didn't hep. 1750 on the reg and 1.5 turns in on the HS. Rifle started shooting 2/10" groups. Said what the heck, try the Crosman Premier 14's at the same setting. I figured the 2nd and 3rd shots didn't even hit the paper. The rest of the 10 shot mag opened the group to .25". As I kept shooting the gun or me (most likely) would leak one out to a .3-.4" groups. Started shooting pellet holes and the groups got really small. Switched back to the JSBs to test the scope. 4 moa up, right, down and then left with a shot after each adjustment. Made a parallelogram. Did the knuckle rap after each adjustment before the shot and it made a square. At least using the reticle for a square.If you ever owned a Leupold target scope you know it's a must. Do that or turn a couple moa pass your setting and then turn down to your final setting. That's on instructions from Premier reticle when them and Leupold still got along. I used a pellet hole for a target with one of the mil dots. 3 shots went in a hole and #4 was .5" out and #5 was .5" further. I was thinking " What the heck?". Looked at the reg gauge. It reads 1500. My set pressure is 1750. Check the fill pressure and it's 1500. Ran low on air. Charge with the compressor. 4 minutes 1500 to 4000. Go back outside with a full mag and shoot into the 3 shot start of the previous group. Shoots .13" group. Shoot another pellet hole 10 shot group and it goes .107". I ain't stupid, I quit while I'm ahead.

For the coming week I'm gonna spend some time shooting over the chrony and on the 100 yard range. I didn't have much hope after shooting the RWS Superdome but the advised JSB and Crosman pellets have done the trick. Thanks for all the advice.

[dverna]

I enjoy reading stuff like post 26. It takes a lot of shots to know what really works and what is a fluke.

BTW, jsizemore, I bought a couple of different RWS pellets and they were some of the worst performers in my DayState and DAR. I was very disappointed. But I understand different guns "like" different pellets.

In my case, the JSB 15.9's and Air Arms 16.0's were outstanding. But for what I do (plinking and maybe taking an occasional squirrel or chipmunk), the cheapo 14.3 CPHP's at less than 1/3 the cost are what I ended up stocking up on.

Sounds like you have a fine rifle and that you know how to shoot. PERFECT combination!!!

[jsizemore]

PA has the JSBs for 22.99/500. If you buy 3 you get the 4th free. That's $69 + $5.52 tax + $8.99 shipping. Total $83.51. That's like 4.2 cents/pellet. Which is less than I'm paying for primers nowadays. CPs are about 2.7 cents each. 2 pellets cheaper than a primer. I used to buy them by the box when I practiced with a FWB 601 and 603. I don't think I spent 1/2 cent each. And then my eyesight succumbed to middle and old age. Thank goodness for rifle scopes and PCP.

[dverna]

PA has the JSBs for 22.99/500. If you buy 3 you get the 4th free. That's $69 + $5.52 tax + $8.99 shipping. Total $83.51. That's like 4.2 cents/pellet. Which is less than I'm paying for primers nowadays. CPs are about 2.7 cents each. 2 pellets cheaper than a primer. I used to buy them by the box when I practiced with a FWB 601 and 603. I don't think I spent 1/2 cent each. And then my eyesight succumbed to middle and old age. Thank goodness for rifle scopes and PCP.

Watch Amazon for sales on CPHP’s. I bought over 20k. Normally limited to four tins at a time but I am patient. $6.24/500 last time I ordered some. Shipping is free but I have Prime.

[chutesnreloads]

Glad it has come together for you.
The only RWS pellets I've tried are the wadcutter MeisterKlugeln sp?.
The guns that like them, really like them.

[jsizemore]

Talked to Ted from Pyramyd Friday around 5. We talked till after 6. He's a competitive air gunner at a few disciplines. He helped with my questions since I'm new to PCP. I told him about the site how much other members like Pyramyd. I told him about the pellets I've been using, 22cal JSB 18 dome, CP 14 dome and now HP. He said for competition lots of folks shoot the JSB 25s. There's 2 styles so he was going to send me a tin of each to try at longer distances, 50-100 yards. Thanks Ted.

Seems that regulator creep is fairly common even in the high dollar rifles. Most run 2 regulators to minimize the creep especially during a string for record. Seems most clear the gun of higher plenum pressure before they shoot for record. Guess I've got some more time on target and over the chrony to figure the reg pressure and hammer spring settings. Darn?

From all the shooting I've done so far the rifle has developed a little drag in the second stage of the trigger pull. The trigger lever is made of aluminum and the second lever is steel. Where the aluminum and steel levers interface, the aluminum developed a chip in the surface. I figured I could stone those surfaces, grease with moly and adjust to lighter spring tension. Did the first 2 but the trigger adjustments were already set to minimum. I put it back together and it shot fine for a while but the drag is back. Time for some hammer polishing and spring trimming.

[jsizemore]

Today I addressed the lack of a crown on the barrel. I pulled the barrel and got it clamped to the bench. Started with a 1/4" acorn nut with some valve grinding compound. It cut very slow. Off to the Lowes to pick up some stuff for work and made a trip to hardware for some #8 and 10 acorn nuts and some 6" all thread to act as an arbor. Back at the house the #8 seem a better fit for the 22 cal barrel. Half hour later things were looking real good. I had cleaned the barrel before I started and after crown work. Took it outside for some 30 yard target work. Things looked OK but the wind wasn't cooperating. Figured I do some chronograph work.

The first shot of each string was always high and faster since the reg leaks a little. While I'm loading the mag and tending to the chrony the pressure would rise 125 psi over the 1750 reg set pressure. When I threw out the first shot (I used it for my aim point) the 9 remaining shots of the string were pretty impressive:

Group #4-956.7 FPS Avg- ES -5.8 smallest group .313
#5-960 FPS Avg- ES-3
#6-954.7 FPS Avg- ES-5.6
#7-947.6 FPS Avg - ES4.8 largest group .526
#8- This string didn't have enough cylinder pressure to maintain regulator pressure. Velocity started at 951.7 and it was a straight decline to the last at 924.7. All these were shot with 14.3 Crosman premier domes.

Each group was no more than 2 pellets high. Wind was the thing. I wanted to look at velocities and didn't want to wait the wind out and have the reg pressure leak higher than set. I'm gonna check the JSB 18's tomorrow.

I stuck the Teslong down the barrel to check it's condition. Muzzle looked great. The land whose leade is interrupted by the transfer port looks to be shaving a little lead. The ones on either side of it also show some slight lead too. The earlier clean and polish I did on the barrel last week makes barrel cleaning a breeze. 8 patches with the Patch Worm and Ballistol and it's done. I got to come up with a fix for the trigger lever.

[jsizemore]

I shot the JSB 18s this afternoon. The wind only laid down a couple times and never through an entire string of 10. The interesting part was there was no thrown first shot. Even when the 1st shot was 125 psi higher than the rest. All groups were .362-.550. I shot 9 groups. Starting cylinder pressure was 4000 and the final group started at 1500 and ended at 1375. That's with the reg set at 1750. That was one of the half inch groups. The gun shot so many 888 +/- 2fps readings on the chrony I quit recording them. Occasionally I'd get a 4 or 9 as the last number to let me know the chrony was still working. Twice in the first group it hit 890. Thing is it went 90 rounds and still shot to group and maintained velocity below 1500 psi and the set pressure. I think it's time to try 1250-1500 reg pressure. The rifle seems to like that pellet. Maybe it will go over 100 rounds before it needs to be refilled. No sign of lead chunks in the bore with the Teslong. First patch through the bore was pretty snug. By the fourth it was sliding through easily. Teslong showed no need to use bore solvent.

I've got an old horse stall about 30 yards from a willow oak that's starting to drop acorns. White oak acorns and the pear trees are pitiful this year. Saw some crows under the willow oak today when I went for my bike ride. Maybe the Avengex would like a little play time.

[jsizemore]

Work and wind got in the way of shooting the past couple days. I got stuff taken care of this morning and the front is finally over us so the winds died down.

At the end of the last shooting session I noticed that below reg pressure grouped pretty good. Set the reg at 1250 and shot some. Nothing special happened. I forgot to turn the hammer spring tension down. Went from 1.75 to 1 turn in. All the shots with JSB 18s went into the group with groups between .4 and .5 with the air cylinder between 4K and 3K psi. Below 3k groups went to .3. Loaded some Crosman Premier Dome 14.3s. Air cylinder pressure was 2.2K-1.5K. Groups were right around .5 with the occasional flyer. Shot a total of 90 rounds on the single fill. Reg air pressure stayed at 1250 the whole time. A couple of groups stuck as one clump in the wood backer when I pulled the target.

I got some heavyweight diablos from Pyramyd to test. Should have some good weather this weekend. Next Saturday is opening day for deer rifle season.

[chutesnreloads]

I'm one that enjoys working up a load. Doesn't matter if it's a powder burner or air power. Just enjoy the discovery of what THIS rifle shoots best.
Advantage of pellets is the lower cost so end up shooting more at the same time gathering more data.
Another heavy pellet you may want to try is the Beeman Kodiak or H&N Barracuda 21.14 gr. Think they're the same pellet under different
packaging. They look and weigh the same and shoot to the same spot for me

[alamogunr]

Referring back to Post #6, as a beginning airgunner, I've just relied on the chambering of a pellet to straighten(sort of) the distorted skirts. Is the tool mentioned still available?

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK,,, I want to dispel a myth about the Avenger Barrels with no crown on them. The barrels are cut off with a Wire EDM Machine, All of the lands and grooves are "EXACTLY" the same length which is the purpose of "Crowning the Barrel" in the first place. That is why they don't Crown them in the conventional sense. It is an unneeded operation that would only add to the cost of the gun. There were no burrs or other Irregularities on mine under a 10X loupe and the reason I knew they were cutoff using Wire EDM is because I worked around it for 8 years. That is what the finish on the end of the barrels looks like using that process..

Crowning the Barrel only screws that up as you are not going to get Perfect Concentricity using the Brass Screw Lapping method or any other method. There was nothing to be gained there since it was as close to perfect as anyone can get to begin with. Finding the best Pellets or Slugs to shoot would be a better use of time, and my gun improved dramatically with just cleaning the barrel which was filthy from the factory!

Kind of funny how a $350 gun can shoot with $2000 guns. Maybe they know something about building them that we missed?

This can be witnessed by the videos on YouTube showing Pellets going thru the same hole in real time shot from un modified guns. (One of the main reasons I bought mine !).

Lots to be gained by figuring out what Regulator Setting works the best for these guns and getting the pressure curve (IE: Velocity) as consistent as possible and leaving the rest of the gun alone. If the Regulator is leaking send it back to Pyramyd and have them fix it. I have a friend who is a Top Bench Rest Shooter. His Velocities over a string of shots will vary less than 2 Fps!, and his best was .5 or 1/2 foot per second. That yielded a 10 shot group of .975 at 600 yards or .16MOA. !. He told me that "velocity consistency" was the key to success. His powder charges are thrown to +/-.001 gr. or literally +/- one granule of powder. He didn't win that shoot because someone beat his score?

I filled my gun to 4300 psi 2 months ago, and it still has 4000psi in it after 2 months of sitting in my shop where ambient temps swing 30-50 degrees from Day to Night, and now it is getting cold and was only 60 degrees in there when I just checked it for this post. It was 100F in there last week and swung from 70 to 100F each day for the last month. This "Temperature Cycling" would easily account for the Pressure loss.

I can understand how some like to work on their guns, I work on guns all the time, its one of my Hobbies.. I can't understand fixing something that ain't broke.

Just go shoot it at something with it, maybe do a Airgun Silhouette Match? That's pretty challenging?.

My .02

Randy

[jsizemore]

Thanks for the clarity on the barrel crown. The couple burrs I saw and stripped lead were obviously a optical delusion on my part. I probably shouldn't believe my lying Teslong. I did look at it before and after an extended time cleaning the manufacturing crude from the barrel. The rifle went back to PA because the tank/cylinder leak got worse. Like 500 psi in 30 minutes and 1500 psi overnight. There was some loss of temp in the tank temp from the initial fill. A very unscientific test was to feel it with my hand. It was luke warm at the initial fill and house temp (74F) at the 30 minute check. Rifle stayed in the house (still 74F) overnight. I found a substantial leak around the tank gauge connection to the receiver. A complete O-ring and seal set comes with the rifle. There were gouges in the receiver threads and a small hole in the sealing surface. From the position of the hole and the limitation of the seal surface I didn't figure it would last. I used wood toothpicks to remove some thread sealant that had been used on the initial seal.

Anyway, PA has the rifle and I'm on the list for another. Tech help said more rifles will be here 10/23. PA customer support didn't say if they checked the rifle only that they were sending it on as defective. That could mean it went down the hall to Air Venturi, or to the importer or who knows.

I really enjoyed shooting the rifle. Can't wait to varmint hunt with it. Maybe I can work on another silhouette grand slam. The ones so far I got shooting lead.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Do you have a pic of the end of the barrel on your gun? If it had a Mottled finish, it was cut with a Wire EDM, and it would look like it was grit blasted on the end.. There should not be any burrs. If it was done with a Cutoff Saw/Milling Cutter, it would have lines across the end of the barrel and probably would have some burrs. Maybe they changed the process cuz Wire EDM is slow? I got my Avenger last year this time which means it was probably made Summer of 2022. Outfits change the way they do things some times to speed things up and save money.

I cut all the 3/8" O1 Guide Rods for my Hand Presses on a Bridgeport Mill set up with an Angle Head and a 6" dia. Slotting Saw. It takes about a minute to mill thru and there is a significant burr left on the cutoff part when it drops that I cut off with side cutting pliers. I then have to deburr the ends on a Scotch Brite Wheel to get rid of the rest of the burrs so they will fit into the Aluminum Top and Bottom Plates, and smooth the ends out so they look better. The reason why I use this process is because the Rods end up +/-.001 the same length.

But, good you sent it back. I paid the $10 or $20 to have mine tested before it shipped and it still had 4,000psi in it when I showed up at my house. I still wonder why they don't clean the barrels out before they ship them. Mine took several patches to get all the Black Goo out.

I'd definitely tell them to test the new gun out before shipping it to you. Might save some future annoyance?

Randy

[jsizemore]

I didn't take any pictures. The Avenge-x took so long to get to the public I took it for granted that it was a supply issue for some components. The barrel is indexed in the shroud for quick caliber changes and the muzzle is about 3" back from the end of the shroud. Could be barrels were the hold up and they changed their normal procedure to get them to customers. When I do the brass acorn nut, fine valve grinding compound, 600 garnet compound,and finally JB compound, it takes better than an hour. More time cleaning and looking then grinding and polishing. I stop as soon as I get a clean line at the edge of the grooves at the muzzle. When I was done I shot a number of pellets and checked with the Teslong after each shot. Looked good after I was done. 10 shot groups were very ROUND. Extreme spread was around 6fps, except for the first shot after a mag refill. I DO like the rifle and want another when they get it to me. Nobody's perfect.