The 40-70 Sharps Straight Challenge

[Chill Wills]

The 40-70 Sharps Straight Challenge is not to shoot better than me or the next guy, but load and shoot it well, and share what is working for you.

The 40-70 can be a stinker. It is an old-time favorite of hunters and found regularly in old match rifles as well. 330gr and 370 grain bullets were the norm.

I have two rifles chambered for it and kinda sorta tamed one of them years ago. It is the 14.5" twist Sharps but don't shoot it much. It is an Axtel 1877. My other 40-70SS, a Winchester 1885 with an even faster twist has really been a puzzle. I dug it out of the very back of the safe where it has been for years and I am going to try again at a silhouette match tomorrow.

What do you have that is working? Don't be a lurker. Let's hear it.

[Randy Bohannon]

My Shiloh 1874 40-70 SS 32” barrel has done well with a Steve Brooks Money Bullet @ 410 grs. 410” and 70 grs. of Swiss 1.5. Next best was a Lyman Snover 410 grs. and 65 grs. of Swiss 1.5.
I have more 40 cal moulds than any other for one rifle things got better with Jamison brass, should have bought more than 100 pieces.

[Abert Rim]

Good luck Chill, and I look forward to your report. Been years since I had one on a rolling block action. Didn't really shoot it enough to make it sing.

[BLAHUT]

A 45/70 roller, 30" barrel, 500 gr .459-500 Lee, pure lead, 41 grs blackhorn 209, mag primer, about 1200 FPS. A 45/70 guide gun, 515 gr Lee flat point, pure lead, 27 grs 5744, mag primer, about 1200 FPS. A 45/60, 515 grs Lee flat point, pure lead, 30 grs blackhorn 209, mag primer, about 1200 FPS. All shoot real accurate for me....
Would love to find some jamison 45/60 brass ???

[Randy Bohannon]

A 45/70 roller, 30" barrel, 500 gr .459-500 Lee, pure lead, 41 grs blackhorn 209, mag primer, about 1200 FPS. A 45/70 guide gun, 515 gr Lee flat point, pure lead, 27 grs 5744, mag primer, about 1200 FPS. A 45/60, 515 grs Lee flat point, pure lead, 30 grs blackhorn 209, mag primer, about 1200 FPS. All shoot real accurate for me....
Would love to find some jamison 45/60 brass ???

Has absolutely nothing to do with the question asked.

[BLAHUT]

Has absolutely nothing to do with the question asked.

[What do you have that is working? Don't be a lurker. Let's hear it.] YAP; you are right ??????

[Lead pot]

My first 74 Shiloh was the .40-2.5 (70) I shot it for several years and it was a little temperamental when I first got it. Back then I used mostly the Lyman and Saeco as well as the RCBS moulds.
I had Steve brooks make me a Snover nosed paper patch mould and it started to show me that this rifle and came to an attention we could agree on and I had a few others made by Paul Jones.
I found the longer that ogive radius got the harder it was keeping a good finish at the Gongs so I went back to the blunter nosed shorter ogive radiuses and this work out good for me.
One night I got a call from Dave Gullo and he asked me some questions for making PP moulds and I told him what I liked and later Jim called me again and we came up with the design of the 3 in the photo and it turned out to be a very good shooter. Then the 4 on the right I had BA make and the first three shoot very well in the .40-70 with a 1/16 ROT and the .40-65 14 ROT.
The forth shoots well in the 14 ROT but falters in the 16 at longer ranges.
Those dimples are where the ogive meats the shank and that is where I hold the patch. For a slower twist I like the ogive farther up front.
My .40-2.5 I like the .405 Win brass. The wall thickness is just right for the PP. Shoot, clean and reload. They never need a die for the next reload.
A lot of shooters get their moulds by weight of the bullet. Think length for your ROT and not weight. Your alloy temper will change the weight but not the proper length for the ROT.

Kurt

[Chill Wills]

I shot the 40-70 SS in a silhouette match today. I thought it was a mild day until it was time to sit in the spotting chair and coach Dan, my shooting partner. Everyone’s overall scores suffered due to the mysterious unseen conditions. So, …I am not sure this was the best indicator of accuracy BUT, that is the good news. The load worked about as well as any today, shooting a 24 with the match winning score being a 25. I started on Turkeys shooting a 7, * but shot one out of order or would have been an 8, and finished on Pigs with 10 of 10. The rams were trouble with all of us having some high/low issues.
If it wasn’t for the last offhand Chicken, a hit, I would have been skunked!
I am optimistic! This Buffalo Arms heavy, as in 460 grains, and for Kurt- 1.515” long bullet, seems to have a future in this 40cal 13 twist barrel.

[Lead pot]

1.515 would work in my 14 twist. What is the BA mould number ? For a 1.5" bullet at 460 gr the alloy must be close to 1/20? that should lay the rams down in fair shape.
I will shoot a silhouette match next weekend and I think I will pack the .40-70 along with the .38-50 Hep.

I think Henry the Gremlin plays games with me on the Pigs I get more turkeys than pigs usually

[Chill Wills]

https://www.buffaloarms.com/409-460-...m409460c3.html

[Lead pot]

I like the profile but it has too many rumble strips LOL

[Chill Wills]

I stopped with the PP bullets. No advantage for me.

[Old-Win]

In 2002, I got my order for what was to be my first and only black powder cartridge rifle. It was made by Ballard in Cody and one of their first high walls and in 40-70 Sharp Straight. Ron Long did a lot of the work. As a rookie, it took me quite a while to get it to shoot. I don't know if it was because it was a 40-70 or I was just that green at what I was doing. Here's a few things that I did find out and actually got it to shoot quite well. It came with a chamber mouth of .430" and I was using stretched Buffalo Arm brass. I found that neck turning the brass helped a great deal in accuracy and I'm not sure whether it was because it gave me a couple more thousandths clearance or whether it was because i trued up the neck of the brass. Probably a little bit of each. The next thing that helped quite a bit was I had a taper crimp die taken out by Bob Stillwell in Texas which just next sized the case down enough to where it put a 1/2 " straight section on the neck of the case rather than a straight taper all the way from the rim to the end of the case. That seemed to help quite a bit too. It helped with bullet run out. Steve Brooks advised me to have him make a bullet 1.5" long for a 16" twist. I found that when shooting it in long range matches the holes were oblong at 900 and a 1000 yards. Went to a bullet 1.45 in long and that helped straighten out the holes but not completely. Finally went to a bullet 1.41" long and now I was punching round holes in the paper. All this time my accuracy was improving but I don't know if it was because I was just learning how to shoot these things or whether some of the stuff I did helped as well. Bob

[Lead pot]

Bob,

I shortened mine up also but I used the lathe and just kept cutting the mould down to almost the pin.
This is the same profile as Chill's rumble strip but ironed out
It's a very good performer to the 1000 yard in my 16 twist 74 .40-70. It weighs 416 gr with 1/20 T/L

[Deadeye Bly]

My 40/70 Is a Shiloh '74 Sharps with a 14" twist 32" long barrel. I've had good luck with a Brooks 416 gr Creedmoor style bullet with 59 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss. The 1st time out on silhouettes I shot a 29 but have not done that well since with it. I mostly use the BACO stretched Krag brass. I've got some Hornady 405 brass and had to turn the necks. Mine have a lot of weight variation and I sorted it into 2 weight groups. I use the 405 brass on chickens with a 370 gr Saeco bullet with 53 gr of 1 1/2 Swiss. I miss a lot of chickens so it is OK. I've got a Brooks 441 grain Creedmoor style bullet that is 1.42" long. I shot a long range match with it with 67 gr of 1 1/2 Swiss. At 800 yds I was right there with the top shooters. I never missed at 900 but could only put one in the black. I had 2 misses at 1000 but shot a better score than at 900. I would like to try it again at long range but the match is in Aug lying out in the hot sun and you don't have a spotter/coach. You are entirely on your own and by the time you read the conditions, get in the rifle, find the right target and shoot, conditions have changed. I tried the 441 bullet on rams in KY with limited success. Since I got my 40/50 SS the 40/70 has not gotten much work.

[Chill Wills]

The rifle I have is set up for the 405 Win brass shortened to 2.5" as well. I think this reduces the capacity compaired to the stretched Krag brass Buffalo Arms used to sell. That might be a good thing.
I agree, it would be fun to try this 40 at long range but like you, the hot summer sun keeps me from enjoying the match so I quit shooting Creedmoor. My little brain gets baked and I don't even shoot as well as I can in that state.
Much more shooting and load testing is needed to have an idea what will work best with this bullet. BTW, I started using .090" wads and very hard alloy that may be a help with this bullet's long unsupported nose.

[Don McDowell]

If you guys have that midrange match in Cheyenne, it would be interesting to see what the bullet holes look like in the 600 yard target. Or at least shoot Cody's 500 gongs when you can go out and look at the imprint in the paint.

[Gunlaker]

Interesting Michael. When I was shooting midrange in Worland I did pretty well with my 1.4" long money bullet in both 1-16 & 1-14 twist .40-65's. I know it's only a 40-65, but Bryan Y, would generally shoot a few points higher than me. He was using a slightly heavier and slightly shorter bullet in a 1:14 twist 40-70 Shiloh. JIM409410M5. Lots of powder capacity. I have the mold and have even cast the bullets but haven't shot any yet.

I've always wondered what it was about the 40-70 that gave it a bad reputation. Is it a brass uniformity problem? Or do they generally have chambers with unusual and tricky throats? Or too much powder for the bore diameter? I'm too chicken to try and find out.

Chris.

[Randy Bohannon]

The BACO stretched Krag brass caused me lots of frustrating days on the silhouette range, I finally figured out why ? My rifle would shave off a wee bit of brass on some but not all cases closing the action which told me the stretching of the brass was inconsistent and never going to the winners circle. I then bought some Rocky Mountain Brass when they were in Cody. That stuff was so soft 65 grs. of Swiss 1.5 would swell the case and wouldn’t chamber. Then Jamison made some 40-70 SS brass and bingo really good brass but I only bought 100 pieces not knowing they would be kaput not long for the world. I have 500 pieces of the RP stretched Krag brass I think is useless for competing .

[HWooldridge]

The BACO stretched Krag brass caused me lots of frustrating days on the silhouette range, I finally figured out why ? My rifle would shave off a wee bit of brass on some but not all cases closing the action which told me the stretching of the brass was inconsistent and never going to the winners circle. I then bought some Rocky Mountain Brass when they were in Cody. That stuff was so soft 65 grs. of Swiss 1.5 would swell the case and wouldn’t chamber. Then Jamison made some 40-70 SS brass and bingo really good brass but I only bought 100 pieces not knowing they would be kaput not long for the world. I have 500 pieces of the RP stretched Krag brass I think is useless for competing .

Can the Krag brass be trimmed?