tube magazine blow ups

[ebb]

Can any of you guys link me to pictures of tube magazine detonations of ammo in the tube with pointed bullets. There is a discussion on another site and many are down playing the danger. I would like to post pictures but cannot for the life of me find any.

[Froogal]

Can any of you guys link me to pictures of tube magazine detonations of ammo in the tube with pointed bullets. There is a discussion on another site and many are down playing the danger. I would like to post pictures but cannot for the life of me find any.

And I'd like to know if those bullets were actually POINTED bullets or if they were round nose bullets?

[JoeJames]

I saw an episode of Forgotten Weapons where the tube in a Henry type repro blew up when there about 5 rounds in it - flat nose bullets. But he let the magazine tube follower slam down on the rounds. He was lightly injured. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDuoj7KR-CA&t=678s

[Rockindaddy]

My friend Kent Lomont who mentored under Elmer Keith took a Winchester Model 71 receiver and rebarreled it to 450 Alaskan. The recoil on this Model 71 was violent with full house loads and heavy jacketed flat point bullets he was loading. One day while he was shooting, the magazine and forearm exploded. His left hand needed extensive surgery to reconstruct it. For the rest of his life until he passed away he had limited use of his left hand. When we talked about it he thinks there was a high primer, not fully seated that went off even with a flat point bullet. Two cartridges detonated in the magazine tube. Elmer Keith's 1886 Winchester 45-70 pet load was 53grs of 3031 and a 400gr Speer flat point. I have shot this load in a Marlin 1895 45-70 for over 40 years. But the 450 Alaskan is a much more powerful round than the 45-70 Govt. Don't think I need the punch of a 450 Alaskan (348 Winchester Base) in a lever gun tube magazine. Personally, I would never load a pointed projectile in a tube magazine rifle. I shoot Marlins, Winchester, 11mm Reichspatrone 1871/84 rifles, a Remington Keen in 45-70, and Swiss 11mm Vetterli's. All have tube magazines.

[Froogal]

I have shot many, many round nose .38 special and .357 magnum in a lever action rifle with NO incidents. Quite a few of the shooters in our cowboy action group also shoot round nose bullets with never an incident of any kind.

Maybe because we all load on the mild side?

[dverna]

I might be wrong, but I am not aware of any commercial ammunition used in lever action calibers that has a pointed bullet except the FTX and is a "soft" polymer tip.

The majority of old timers "know" not to use a pointed bullet in a tube magazine. Maybe newer reloaders have not heard the "old wives tale" and may do it but the younger crowd seems more interested in stuff like 6.5 CreedLess than .30/30's. It is doubtful many pointed bullets get reloaded in lever action calibers.

[Bmi48219]

I always wondered about the Remington 30-30 Accelerator round that had a 55 gr. pointed lead tip jacketed .223 bullet in a sabot. It was available in the late 70s - early 80s. Can’t recall if there was a warning on the cartridge box but I don’t doubt some would have ignored it.
I gave a box to a friend in 1990.

https://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/arms...tor_am_640.jpg
https://ammo-art.ch/images/stories/v.../IMG_91734.jpg

[tunnug]

I seem to remember some 30/30 pointed rounds specifically made with soft rubber points to get the accuracy/velocity of pointed rounds without the danger of detonation in the tubes.

[longbow]

There are many threads here on this same subject:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...pointed+bullet
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...pointed+bullet
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...pointed+bullet
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...pointed+bullet
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...pointed+bullet
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...pointed+bullet
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...pointed+bullet
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...pointed+bullet
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...agazine+blowup

Not arguing that it can't happen but I shot thousands of Lyman 457124's out of my Marlin 1895 and never had an issue and these were mostly loaded to 1895 max. load level so substantial recoil.

I will admit that was mostly through ignorance in that I never thought about it. These days I would opt for an RNFP

Since I read some of these threads I decided to see if I could get a primer to detonate by using an ACWW cast NOE 316299 (clone of the Lyman 314299) round nose bullet and a hammer. I donned some safety gear, got some pliers to hold the cast bullets and a hammer then put a primed .303 British cartridge in my vice and proceeded to hammer. I was unable to set off a primer after many attempts. In fact I wan't able to even badly deform a primer but the boolit noses mushed. My conclusion was that a primer is not likely to be set off by recoil with a round nose bullet of ACWW being jammed into it.

Now, if the bullet was more pointed and made out of linotype and in a heavy recoiling cartridge it might be a different matter.

However, I have said it before, it there was any significant chance of a round nose bullet setting off a primer in a lever action gun then factory ammunition would not ever have round nose bullets loaded because the liability would be too great yet:

Hornady makes round nose bullets for .30-30
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010477433?pid=382697

and Remington makes factory loaded ammunition using what appear to be round nose bullets
https://arsenalforce.ca/products/rem...62B1C13326F58F

Most of these have flat points but Remington and Winchester show round nose bullets as factory loads
https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/be...o-for-hunting/

Also, as an observation, I do not recall seeing reports of tube magazine blow ups using factory ammunition, just reloads. Could it be a high primer? Could it be a large pistol primer in a rifle cartridge?

Not trying to poo poo the seriousness or possibility of a chainfire happening in a tube magazine but personally I doubt that a large radius round nose bullet of ACWW or softer lead will set off a primer under recoil of anything up to hot .45-70 anyway.

YMMV

Longbow

[Hick]

Some years back the Mythbusters show tried very, very hard to make rounds detonate in a tube magazine with pointy bullets-- and they couldn't do it. I have read of a couple of other cases where people tried and couldn't. My personal opinion is that it can happen, but you need to load the magazine tube to the max so that the magazine spring is "bottomed out." If you don't load the tube to the max, then when you fire the rifle the recoil just makes the ammo slide forward in the tube under the pressure of the magazine spring-- which isn't enough to set off the rounds. The trouble, of course, is that none of us wants to test the theory in our own firearms. In my case, I shoot flat nose and round nose in my levers, but when I shoot spire point bullets I load them singly in the chamber.

There have been one or two cases of reported 'magazine' blowups where the receiver was blown out and the stock blown off. Can't find the sources-- but I have to say that since the mag tube is weak, if you damage the receiver it is more likely a double charge not a magazine tube problem. For some reason blaming it on the bullet in the magazine seems more 'convenient' than admitting to a reloading error.

[Texas by God]

Why give Murphy a head start?


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[hangman1]

When I was young back in the early 70's .I had a marlin 336 in 35 Remington and shot a lot of the 150 gr. pointed remington bullets at woodchucks . never had any go off in the tube maybe I was just luckly .

[stubshaft]

I have shot tens of thousands of rounds through lever guns. I've always heard about this and been fearful of it, but NEVER seen it.

[Hannibal]

All this over a guy shooting a lever action at 1K yards with pointed bullets he loaded individually.

Oy!

[muskeg13]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...be%20explosion

Here's another thread to view, with pictures. While it didn't occur with pointed bullets, it certainly did happen. Play down the danger if you like. In my gun safe there is a jar containing a former front tooth and bullet and case fragments, plus the blown up magazine tube. They are a reminder every time I open the safe door that safety can't be taken for granted.

and another: https://levergunscommunity.org/viewt...hp?f=1&t=45773

By the way, my incident involved a Rossi Puma (M92 clone) .44 Mag, loaded with 6 rounds in the magazine. The load was 200gr Flat Nose plain base commercial cast that was supposed to be a soft alloy suitable for black powder loaded in new unfired cases over 10gr Unique with Federal 150 primers.

[muskeg13]

I saw an episode of Forgotten Weapons where the tube in a Henry type repro blew up when there about 5 rounds in it - flat nose bullets. But he let the magazine tube follower slam down on the rounds. He was lightly injured. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDuoj7KR-CA&t=678s

Good video. Thanks for posting. Actually Ian may have it wrong concerning the Henry open tube construction making the effect of the explosion worse. If the tube had been solid and encased by a wood forearm, the gas generated by 2 exploding rounds would have been contained in the tube and not be allowed to bleed out through the follower slot. This could have been much worse, as it was in the case of my explosion. With no where for the gas to go, all the rounds in the mag tube could have gone up. When I reconstructed my rifle after the explosion, I drilled a series of 1/8" gas relief ports the entire length of the forearm, thinking if there was ever another explosion, I'd rather deal with wood splinters than metal fragments.

[FergusonTO35]

My friend Kent Lomont who mentored under Elmer Keith took a Winchester Model 71 receiver and rebarreled it to 450 Alaskan. The recoil on this Model 71 was violent with full house loads and heavy jacketed flat point bullets he was loading. One day while he was shooting, the magazine and forearm exploded. His left hand needed extensive surgery to reconstruct it. For the rest of his life until he passed away he had limited use of his left hand. When we talked about it he thinks there was a high primer, not fully seated that went off even with a flat point bullet. Two cartridges detonated in the magazine tube. Elmer Keith's 1886 Winchester 45-70 pet load was 53grs of 3031 and a 400gr Speer flat point. I have shot this load in a Marlin 1895 45-70 for over 40 years. But the 450 Alaskan is a much more powerful round than the 45-70 Govt. Don't think I need the punch of a 450 Alaskan (348 Winchester Base) in a lever gun tube magazine. Personally, I would never load a pointed projectile in a tube magazine rifle. I shoot Marlins, Winchester, 11mm Reichspatrone 1871/84 rifles, a Remington Keen in 45-70, and Swiss 11mm Vetterli's. All have tube magazines.

To each his own, but if I needed something with that kind of power level I would just go straight to a bolt gun. For me at least, a lever action should be light and handy with modest recoil.

[458mag]

If you have an accurate pointy bullet load for your lever gun use it. Just dont put more than one in the tube. One in the chamber one in the tube and make the first shot count.

[sukivel]

If you have an accurate pointy bullet load for your lever gun use it. Just dont put more than one in the tube. One in the chamber one in the tube and make the first shot count.

That’s a poor man’s double rifle!


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[missionary5155]

But if it works then Bully for the poor man being smart enough to use well what he has.