Lyman size die and top punch compatibility.

[Kyle M.]

After ten years of pan and tumble lubing I’m looking into a lube sizer. Mainly looking at used Lyman 450’s and 4500’s. Will the current Lyman 4500 sizing dies and top punches fit the older Lyman lube sizer models? I was just going to buy a brand new Lyman 4500 and the sizing dies and top punches I currently need but it seems nobody has a Lyman 4500 in stock. Hence me perusing the used market.

[Mk42gunner]

They are supposed to. RCBS and maybe if you can find any, Lachmiller are also supposed to be compatible with Lyman 450's.

Some older dies may have issues, but that may be with the set screw holding of the 45.

I have a mix of Lyman and RCBS H&I dies that I use with no problems in my RCBS Lubamatic. I have yet to lube a boolit with either of my Lyman 450's, so no real help there.

Top punches should work for any of them, but my most used top punch is a one inch long section of ¼" rod. It seems to work with most anything I put under it without deforming the nose, as long as the alloy is as hard as air cooled wheel weights.

Robert

[Randy Bohannon]

I have had trouble with new dies from Lyman for my 4500 with the dies being to big at the retaining hex nut thus not allowing it to be tightened. Two different new .408” dies that are oversized and returned and no .408” size die from two different suppliers.

[georgerkahn]

After ten years of pan and tumble lubing I’m looking into a lube sizer. Mainly looking at used Lyman 450’s and 4500’s. Will the current Lyman 4500 sizing dies and top punches fit the older Lyman lube sizer models? I was just going to buy a brand new Lyman 4500 and the sizing dies and top punches I currently need but it seems nobody has a Lyman 4500 in stock. Hence me perusing the used market.

I have a small assortment of Lyman, RCBS, SAECO top punches; three Lyman 450's and one Lyman 45 -- and all of MINE are 100% interchangeable vis shank size! For what it is worth, if I was a'looking for another -- I'd go for another Lyman 450. Perhaps, used on this site -- do a WTB? Just my thoughts... Good luck.
Oh -- one btw -- maybe because I live in the north and size in the basement -- a heater is pretty much a necessity to complement the lub-sizer here.
geo

[metricmonkeywrench]

Yep, all the Lyman and RCBS dies and top punches will generally interchange well. I have a the 3 Lyman models and actually prefer the 450 over the 4500s. I in the 450s I have both the earlier "hook" type and the straight lever like the later model. Both styles work equally as well with an edge to the straight lever.

[Kyle M.]

Thanks everyone for the answers. I ended up buying a used 450 and a new .452 and .459 sizer. And the appropriate top punches for my molds. Hopefully everything works together.

[georgerkahn]

Thanks everyone for the answers. I ended up buying a used 450 and a new .452 and .459 sizer. And the appropriate top punches for my molds. Hopefully everything works together.

In my opinion, you made a wise decision! Congrats and good luck. In my case, the lub-choice was another decision (I pronounce it, "Dee-sis-eee-own") needed to be made, and perhaps (just a guess) like many others I have more than one 450 for this reason. I keep plain-Jane Lyman in one; Orange Magic in the 2nd; and, the Blue lub purveyed by Magma (Star people) in the third. The first time I wished to switch from one lub to another in SAME 450 kind of "blew me away" with the many, many bullets that get lubed from a teeny amount still in it!
I also mention perhaps the need for a heater. You might find it's too much effort for you (and often the tool!!! -- they do break) pumping the lub. I spent the big bucks (actually, "medium bucks" as I bought mine used) on Lyman electric heaters built for the 450 series. However, a good friend has a 60watt light bulb next to his, and claims the heat from this is "just right".
There is a bit of a learning curve to lub/sizing. (Wait til you get into the Star's -- I have three of these as well) BUT -- be patient and in very short time you should be turning out perfectly sized and lubed bullets!
geo

[Harter66]

I have a pair of old Herters lubesizers.
Although there are 3 varieties the most common and last version uses the now standard H&I dies (so called because of the assembly diagram numbers being H and I from the Lyman) .


With a clever bushing the second version uses them as well but will require a little handy work for nose punches and a base plunger assortment.

The last one will use the Seaco threaded dies but they are slightly under sized

I only have about $80 in 2 of the Herters lubesizers . Both came with an H&I die and top punch so even if I couldn't use them I got dies and top punches .
The most recently purchased example has a brass bushing for the smaller Lyman/RCBS H&I dies . I will be having a steel replacement made as I will eventually mangle the brass example installed .

The lone Lyman is decaled as a 45 but in general is a 450 . I didn't pay much for it either .

I learned paper patch to avoid buying tools for and gas checks . Then I realized I was buying custom size dies for the paper patch and splitting sizes to accommodate lubed bullets as well . I have about 18 push through dies . Nearly as many "standard" H&I's live with me now also .

Don't put it off . Just buy the lubesizer. The RCBS and Lyman are more parts available than the Herters lubesizers but there's nothing wrong with them that the typical 5 min fiddle won't fix and seal up . Just in case cost is a driver for you like it was for me . In the immortal words "if I'd known then" ........of course I wouldn't have learned to shoot plain base bullets in rifles pushing 2000 fps , paper patching , how ridiculously easy gas checks make 2200 fps , and dread thumbing lube in even a few bullets .

[gwpercle]

The older 450 dies work smoother ... I believe they have more polishing done to them . 4500 dies work in my 450 but I try to polish them to get any rough edges off .

Seating stem/nose punch ... use a flat stem to seat any boolit with a flat spot on it
Fill any punch with epoxy putty ...sand stem flat = flat punch .
Custom fit a punch to a boolit nose with a small ball of epoxy ... it's easier to modify a stem than find some stem to fit a NOE , MP or other custom mould ...
Even Lee moulds don't have punches you can buy to fit their boolits ...
besides everyone is " Out of Stock" ...get whatever stem you can and custom fit it with epoxy putty ...a small ball in the nose then insert boolit ...8 hrs. = perfect fit !
Gary

[Jal5]

Mk42gunner described using a one inch piece of 1/4’ rod as a top punch for multiple calibers. Would that work on the lyman 45 too? Has anyone tried it? A picture would be helpful too.
Thanks
Joe


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[Shopdog]

I like the 450's. Don't want to get into the weeds,too far.... so will sorta keep this short;

One of the benefits of an in/out vs push through is you can "stop" the depth on the 450... to a very high degree of precision. Sayin,in a lot of examples,you can leave the body as cast,only "sizing" or crimping the GC if so equipped.

Another,very slight tangent to the discussion is the small leade in bevel on the H die's. Manufacturing being what it is(a race),this uber critical area is hard to dial in as a,one size/taper fits all. It shows up as; the longer and skinnier the bullet,the more the leade in plays a role in the bending moment of the tool. Sure,blame the die maker... not really fair because,sometimes a short,more abrupt leade is what we want.... sometimes a longer more gentle leade works better. Only mentioned as a heads up....mainly see issues with long and skinny.

Enjoy your new process... they're a lot of fun.

[Wayne Smith]

Mk42gunner described using a one inch piece of 1/4’ rod as a top punch for multiple calibers. Would that work on the lyman 45 too? Has anyone tried it? A picture would be helpful too.
Thanks
Joe


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The shaft of the top punch is 1/4". So simply cut a chunk of 1/4" rod and slide it in, with a touch of lube to hold it in. You have his 'universal top punch' - I did this years ago and still use it. This is for an RCBS and a Lyman 450, I don't know of the 45 but I think the top punches are universal mounting size, so it should work fine.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Mk42gunner described using a one inch piece of 1/4’ rod as a top punch for multiple calibers. Would that work on the lyman 45 too? Has anyone tried it? A picture would be helpful too.
Thanks
Joe


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Yes...that will work in a 45.
If you don't have 1/4" rod laying around, a cheaper DIY version is a 1/4 bolt with a non threaded shoulder area. Cut it to size and even do a little redneck machining with a drill press to shape the hex head for a larger nose on the TP.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thanks everyone for the answers. I ended up buying a used 450 and a new .452 and .459 sizer. And the appropriate top punches for my molds. Hopefully everything works together.

That's good news. You'll have to report back to let us know how the 450 is working out for you. I've owned a bunch of different lubesizers and while I prefer the 45 and it's design, I've had three of the 450s...all were a good sizer.

[Kyle M.]

The 450 showed up today and looks hardly used. It has about a half a stick of Lyman Alox in it and came with 3 more sticks. I'm glad to say it looks like this lube will flow at room temp in my reloading room but only time will tell. It also came with the ratcheting tool, wrench for the sizing die cap and the allen key for changing the top punch. It is the straight handle variety. My sizing die and top punch won't be here until Thursday so I won't be able to try it until then. I'm currently only loading .45-70 and .45 Colt both with flat point bullets so I may try the universal top punch thing. I went with the .459 sizing die first as I shoot the .45-70 more and I have a lot of .45 Colt bullets already tumble lubed and ready to go. I always find vintage and new old stock reloading gear interesting and I have no idea how old these sticks of Alox are but they're in cardboard boxes marked $2.50.

[Jal5]

Thanks guys for that tip on the 1/4” universal top punch. I will give it a try soon.

Good luck with your new 450 lubesizer sounds like a good find.


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[Kyle M.]

I got my sizing die and top punch today. I ran 25 405gr .459 bullets through it as a test and I have to say I wish I'd have bought one of these 10 years ago when I started casting. Now I just need to go tumble some brass so I can load up some test rounds.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The 450 showed up today and looks hardly used. It has about a half a stick of Lyman Alox in it and came with 3 more sticks. I'm glad to say it looks like this lube will flow at room temp in my reloading room but only time will tell.

SNIP>>>

I always find vintage and new old stock reloading gear interesting and I have no idea how old these sticks of Alox are but they're in cardboard boxes marked $2.50.

The Lyman alox should not need heat to run through a lubesizer, until your room gets down to 65º or colder.
One little trick to using any wax based lubes, if your room is a little bit cool, is to preheat the boolits.
The Lyman alox lube in cardboard is probably from 70s or 80s. Shelf life? The beeswax/alox combo will last forever.

I got my sizing die and top punch today. I ran 25 405gr .459 bullets through it as a test and I have to say I wish I'd have bought one of these 10 years ago when I started casting. Now I just need to go tumble some brass so I can load up some test rounds.

Yep, there is nothing much more satisfying that running a well adjusted lubesizer.

[45DUDE]

I saw the post too late. I have a couple of nice spare 450's and .459 lube sizer. RCBS dies work and the old 45 dies will fit but have no 0ring and they will leak in a 450. Lube holes are in different places in some dies but you can plug the extra holes with lead shot.

[old turtle]

I have a Lyman 450 which i purchased about 1960. I have sized sized at least 15,000 bullets of all kinds through it. The only problem i had was the wood on the handle cracked and came off. I put some Marine Tex in it, slid it back on. This was about 45 years ago. no problems since. You can not go wrong with this unit. One thing you might wish to do is get a number of the sealing o rings as they will out on the dies you use a lot. Enjoy.