9mm and 45 not worth reloading?

[Lloyd Smale]

i load piles of 9s. i stiil have 6- 5 pound kegs of pr200 (aa2) brass? free or at least cheap and i have THOUSANDS of them. cast bullets cost me nothing so loading them takes between 3.5 and 5 grains of powder and a primer (that i stocked up on before the prices skyrocked) even at todays primer costs i can load them at under (way under) 15 bucks a hundred. now if you are the type that considers 50 round at the range once a month shootin maybe its not worth the bother but im at the range 3 times a week for 8 months of the year and easily go through 500 rounds a week and thats a slow week. ill even say this. i can load 9s so cheap that i rarely bother with 22lr anymore

[muskeg13]

I was lucky to start casting and reloading at the same time 48 years ago. Even though I occasionally buy jacketed bullets, except for .22LR and some shotgun, I haven't purchased any factory rifle or pistol ammo for over 20 years. I load and cast for over 2 dozen calibers, mostly because I like to. It's my hobby. I even got a .22 Hornet to be able to cast and load if .22LR became unavailable, which it did. On a practical note, I started a stockpile of primers and powder during the Clinton shortages in the early 1990s, and really expanded it after Obama was elected in 2008. I'm not affected by ammo shortages or the threat of government taxation. I also broke down and bought a 9mm to put to use the thousands of discarded cases that I've picked up off of ranges for years. Each time I come back from the range, I have many more empty reloadable cases than what I expended myself. So thanks to those of you who feel that 9mm and .45 ACP aren't worth reloading.

[fredj338]

At current component cost, i can load any service caliber for about 9-10c each using my cast/coated & range brass. How is it not worth reloading? Many point to time, well just buy better gear. On my 650, 600rds an hour is loafing along, so time isnt a big factor. $100/1000 for 9 or 45, pretty cheap shooting.

[Lloyd Smale]

At current component cost, i can load any service caliber for about 9-10c each using my cast/coated & range brass. How is it not worth reloading? Many point to time, well just buy better gear. On my 650, 600rds an hour is loafing along, so time isnt a big factor. $100/1000 for 9 or 45, pretty cheap shooting.

should be a "like" button here

[charlie b]

Currently 9mm is only $240 per 1000. So you save a bit over 50%. Again, if you shoot a lot it makes a difference. When I am only shooting a couple hundred pistol rounds per year (if that much) it doesn't.

I even have all the components on the shelf. Just not worth my trouble to set up the press to save $15-$30.

[dverna]

Very few people have any business experience…most have no business sense.

If you believe your alloy is free, you are in that group of business ignorance. 25 lbs of alloy has a value…it is not “free”. Likely worth about $30.

Do you believe the primers you bought for $20/k are only worth $20? Same for powder…I had $10/lb powder I sold for a wee bit more than $10. Even your free range pickup cases have some value….$25/k?

All that to demonstrate if you think your reloads are $100/k, you are delusional.

I use $75/k for primers, $1.50/lb for alloy and $45/lb for powder to determine the cost of reloads. I value my time at $15/hr. I do not cast or reload for fun. I have better ways to have fun. I manufacture pistol ammunition primarily for cast savings

And speaking of time, I use decent equipment. Dillon 1050 for loading pistol ammunition, Master Caster to cast, and Star lubersizer. It takes me 5 hours to produce 1000 rounds if I cast my own bullets.

When I was shooting 20k rounds a year, I bought pistol bullets. Back then I was paying $50/k for 9mm and .38 bullets by buying in lots of 20-50k. The cost of alloy was $20/k. Spending over 3 hours to save $30 on 1000 bullets did not make sense in the circumstances I was in.

[armoredman]

Well, my alloy WAS free, given to me by a buddy who was doing a range cleanup, given to another buddy who smelted it down into useable ingots for plinking loads. So maybe someone else paid for it, it was free to me. Same with brass, same buddy gets range pickup .223, .308 and 9mm for me in a bucket. Free to me, I didn't pay for it. My primers, well, some I paid for, some my wife paid for, some a buddy gave to me, so the ones from those two are, again, free to me. Checking, nope, not delusional. I see you don't reload for fun, that's cool - I enjoy it, a productive and fun hobby that is relaxing to me. Also, I don't cost my time - if I want to make money, I'll go work overtime. Otherwise, time I spend reloading would be wasted watching TV, playing computer games, cooking, (never a waste of time, love cooking, too), or something else that doesn't make money. But hey, everybody has their own thing, of course. And no, I don't have a lot of business experience - I work for the state. My job has nothing to do with business.

[fredj338]

Currently 9mm is only $240 per 1000. So you save a bit over 50%. Again, if you shoot a lot it makes a difference. When I am only shooting a couple hundred pistol rounds per year (if that much) it doesn't.

I even have all the components on the shelf. Just not worth my trouble to set up the press to save $15-$30.

100%, reloading isnt for everyone. If i only shot 50rds of ammo a month, i would not likely reload. I reload for everything i shoot but 12ga. Even if it was 20rds a year for deer season, i would reload for it. I already uave the gear, setting up to load is just a few minutes.

[fredj338]

Very few people have any business experience…most have no business sense.

If you believe your alloy is free, you are in that group of business ignorance. 25 lbs of alloy has a value…it is not “free”. Likely worth about $30.

Do you believe the primers you bought for $20/k are only worth $20? Same for powder…I had $10/lb powder I sold for a wee bit more than $10. Even your free range pickup cases have some value….$25/k?

All that to demonstrate if you think your reloads are $100/k, you are delusional.

I use $75/k for primers, $1.50/lb for alloy and $45/lb for powder to determine the cost of reloads. I value my time at $15/hr. I do not cast or reload for fun. I have better ways to have fun. I manufacture pistol ammunition primarily for cast savings

And speaking of time, I use decent equipment. Dillon 1050 for loading pistol ammunition, Master Caster to cast, and Star lubersizer. It takes me 5 hours to produce 1000 rounds if I cast my own bullets.

When I was shooting 20k rounds a year, I bought pistol bullets. Back then I was paying $50/k for 9mm and .38 bullets by buying in lots of 20-50k. The cost of alloy was $20/k. Spending over 3 hours to save $30 on 1000 bullets did not make sense in the circumstances I was in.

Well if i don't pay for something, its free, regardless of its value. So yes, one can say their ammo cost this otpr that based on $$ out of their pocket. I dont pay for pistol brass or alloy for casting. My gear was bought decades ago & amortized over 8-10k rds a year. That isnt business ignorance, just reality my friend.
Nope i am way past reloading for fun over 45y reloading. I do enjoy bullet casting & coating but resizing is like reloading, something to just get finished.

[sixshot]

So what does a person do with their time, just stand in a corner, play on the computer, talk on the phone? We all have to have a worthwhile hobby & I think most people on here must like to cast & shoot. If you are trying to put a value on it everyone can do it a different way but I can tell you one thing, shooting factory ammo isn't the way to do it. That is unless you've hit the lottery or something, most of us try to spread the money around a little, maybe even share with our wives or help the kids with school. If you are going to be a shooter you had better learn to reload........ I think.

Dick

[trapper9260]

It is worth it for me to load my own , as for casting for 9mm , I use most of the same boolits that I use for 357 mag /38spl . in 9mm. It is one of my hobbies and what I like to do. How I like to spend my time is up to me like anyone else . When things was dry and everyone was worry about buying ammo when it was hard to find .I still had all I wanted and more if I wanted. I was at one time going low on 22lr and I came up with a cartridge to fill the space since I use them on the trap line. Then when the 22lr price went down and easy to get at the time I got what I needed. Since it is the only one I do not load for. Also load your own . You do not need to buy different ammo to see what will work the best for your use. You just load so many and see what it gives you and go from there. Some of us can not buy factory ammo that easy . When you load your own you have it there . Oh by the way as for primers and powders you can use them in other cartridges also some of the cast boolits. As for the dies . once you have them , it is not a thing you need to get all the time. Same as the molds. It works for me.

[Lloyd Smale]

all comes down to how much you shoot. i have toys that cost much more thn my ammo. side by side atvs snowmobiles a boat 4 vehicles and only two of us in the house. they to me are hobbys. my obsession is shooting. if i could make gas or make a snowmobile or an atv as good myself for half the price id be out there turning a wrench and complaining. i could probably buy every toy i have for the money ive saved over the last 50 years by casting and loading my own ammo. went to camp last weekend and two of my nephews were there. between the 3 of us we shot one of those tall coffee cans of 9mm. probably close to a thousand rounds. add to that 500 rounds of 556. wonder what that would have cost me to buy? i dont value it at todays prices because i was smart enough to buy components when the were much cheaper and have a stock pile big enough to load till im to old to stand behind a dillon. heck ive probably got enough ammo loaded and sitting here that i could probably never have to load again for any caliber and honestly havent pulled the handle on a press in over a year. Now if i had to replace any of my components then it would be valued at todays prices. like i said i get joy out of knowing i made my own. its like the difference between making a pan of lasagna or buying more expensive frozen Stoffers that isnt as good. your NEVER going to get the best accuracy out of a gun without working up loads. so reloading 9s gives me better ammo the factory at half the price and gives me the ability to go to camo and sit 1500 rounds of ammo on the bench and make memories that are priceless. if i would have had to stop and buy it they might have seen 2 boxes of each.

[BobT]

I don't shoot enough 9mm to bother reloading it but .45 ACP is another matter. I love shooting my .45s and I cast and reload for them. The cost is not really something I consider too much, the quality of what I can load myself is my main motivation. Reloading is a hobby for me and I find it relaxing and enjoyable to the point that I have actually burned through ammo just so I could reload the fired cases. For my pistol and revolver ammo I try to find a single bullet that works well in any of my guns for that caliber. For me, yes, it's worth it to reload either cartridge but even though I have a tool head set up for my 550B for 9mm I just don't use it.

[Four-Sixty]

I don't worry about the economic benefits of reloading anymore. The benefits of reloading for me are;
1. If I am reloading, I am not sitting on the couch streaming something I really don't care about
2. If I am reloading, I am not reading the news (propaganda) wasting my time being upset over something I have no control over
3. After I've reloaded, I have ammo to shoot up, so I have an excuse to get outside, into the great outdoors, where I get to meet other passionate people.

Talking about the cost of powder, primers and lead only completely ignores other intangible benefits of reloading. But, who even cares what I think?

(Oh, one more thing these threads don't consider. A budget. We all have a budget. When all you do is break down component cost, you forget we have a budget we are constrained by. Example: if you have $250 for ammo a year for example, you can buy around 650 rounds of 9MM. If, on the other hand, you have access to a range, free 9MM brass and lead, plus the tools to cast and reload, you can reload 2,000 rounds a year.)

[35 Rem]

I would think the crowd on this site wouldn't be overly affected by current component prices since most are prone to buy large quantities during the good times so they don't have to during the shortages. I can shoot 45 ACP for about 5 cents a round with the components on hand now that I've got a berm in the yard so that bullets can be recovered and used again and again. Got 10lbs of surplus powder a few months ago delivered for $214 and have 13K or more primers that were all bought for somewhere between $20 and $30 per 1,000. Have a lifetime supply of brass so that is basically free like the bullets. There is no way factory ammo is ever going to sell for a price that can compete with my loads. Now I agree that if you are just starting out and have to buy powder at $65/lb and primers for $95/1,000 and lead at multiple $'s a pound the cost savings of loading your own starts to dwindle fast.

On to the point of the OP about loading ammo that performs more like the costlier factory ammo to sort of make the reloads "worth more". I guess that all depends on how you look at the value. Of course you can cast a flat nose bullet (which is usually more effective) just as easily as a round nose (usually less effective) so you might as well do the more effective bullet. These in turn more closely simulate the more expensive factory defensive ammo. So far I do try to do that with my 44 Magnum and 45 Colt cast bullets but not the 45ACP. With it I was striving for absolute reliability and cheap fun shooting.

[Lloyd Smale]

I would think the crowd on this site wouldn't be overly affected by current component prices since most are prone to buy large quantities during the good times so they don't have to during the shortages. I can shoot 45 ACP for about 5 cents a round with the components on hand now that I've got a berm in the yard so that bullets can be recovered and used again and again. Got 10lbs of surplus powder a few months ago delivered for $214 and have 13K or more primers that were all bought for somewhere between $20 and $30 per 1,000. Have a lifetime supply of brass so that is basically free like the bullets. There is no way factory ammo is ever going to sell for a price that can compete with my loads. Now I agree that if you are just starting out and have to buy powder at $65/lb and primers for $95/1,000 and lead at multiple $'s a pound the cost savings of loading your own starts to dwindle fast.

On to the point of the OP about loading ammo that performs more like the costlier factory ammo to sort of make the reloads "worth more". I guess that all depends on how you look at the value. Of course you can cast a flat nose bullet (which is usually more effective) just as easily as a round nose (usually less effective) so you might as well do the more effective bullet. These in turn more closely simulate the more expensive factory defensive ammo. So far I do try to do that with my 44 Magnum and 45 Colt cast bullets but not the 45ACP. With it I was striving for absolute reliability and cheap fun shooting.

youd be surprised at how many dont share our train of thought. i get guys all the time asking me to sell them primers and powder and bullets. not poor people either. some that have more disposable income then me. the real tools are the ones that offer a pidence because they know i bought them cheap and are to tight to pay todays prices. some of my friends even tried that game. at first i caved and sold them some. then i tired of it and told them id do it at todays prices and only to friends. then i finally clamped down and told them to go one line and find their own.

same with cast bullets. in the past i gave them away by the coffee can, even loaded ammo. but had to stop that too because it beats the hell out of this old body to cast coat and size a coffee can full of bullets. i think they believed the lead fairy came at night and made them. i sure tend to get fewer visits these days but to me thats a good thing. ive even offered a couple of then access to my loading room to load their own and have told a few they can even use mt lead and cast their own. ive yet to have a single one of them take me up on that offer.

i even had one tool that came over during the 22lr shortage crying that he wanted to take his son to camp shooting. i asked him how many he needed and he said two bricks. i put them on the table and he picked them up and started to leave without even offering to buy them. i said nicely "hold on. i need 20 bucks a brick for them" his reply was how much a box. i told him im not selling them buy the box, take the bricks or forget it. he sat one back on the table and gave me 20 bucks with a scowl and took off without even saying thanks. i heard through a mutual friend that he sold 5 off them at work for 5 bucks a box and kept the other 5 and made money off of it and that friend told mt also that his kid has no interest in his camp or shooting. that was my breaking point for 22 shells.

had a couple others ask later and i said yup for 20 bucks a box of 50! none of then showed up after the call. aint my fault if you didnt have enough components to keep you going for 5 years minimum. im sure theres guys here like that too. they dont bat an eyelash at buying a new gun or some chrome for there harley or pickup but will go into the store and come out with one or two packs a primers

[fredj338]

youd be surprised at how many dont share our train of thought. i get guys all the time asking me to sell them primers and powder and bullets. not poor people either. some that have more disposable income then me. the real tools are the ones that offer a pidence because they know i bought them cheap and are to tight to pay todays prices. some of my friends even tried that game. at first i caved and sold them some. then i tired of it and told them id do it at todays prices and only to friends. then i finally clamped down and told them to go one line and find their own.

same with cast bullets. in the past i gave them away by the coffee can, even loaded ammo. but had to stop that too because it beats the hell out of this old body to cast coat and size a coffee can full of bullets. i think they believed the lead fairy came at night and made them. i sure tend to get fewer visits these days but to me thats a good thing. ive even offered a couple of then access to my loading room to load their own and have told a few they can even use mt lead and cast their own. ive yet to have a single one of them take me up on that offer.

i even had one tool that came over during the 22lr shortage crying that he wanted to take his son to camp shooting. i asked him how many he needed and he said two bricks. i put them on the table and he picked them up and started to leave without even offering to buy them. i said nicely "hold on. i need 20 bucks a brick for them" his reply was how much a box. i told him im not selling them buy the box, take the bricks or forget it. he sat one back on the table and gave me 20 bucks with a scowl and took off without even saying thanks. i heard through a mutual friend that he sold 5 off them at work for 5 bucks a box and kept the other 5 and made money off of it and that friend told mt also that his kid has no interest in his camp or shooting. that was my breaking point for 22 shells.

had a couple others ask later and i said yup for 20 bucks a box of 50! none of then showed up after the call. aint my fault if you didnt have enough components to keep you going for 5 years minimum. im sure theres guys here like that too. they dont bat an eyelash at buying a new gun or some chrome for there harley or pickup but will go into the store and come out with one or two packs a primers

I have shooting buds that didnt see 2020 coming. Some were paying $200+ for 1000 primers end of 2020. They all know i had plenty but i never submitted to the pressure of selling. I did get some spp from an old friend who stopped shooting & sold them to friends at my cost of $40 per, he had paid $20. I could give bullets away too, but while i enjoy casting, it is work & time.

[justindad]

What Don is getting at is opportunity cost. If someone gave you 100 pounds of lead, you have an opportunity to sell it for $200-$300.
*
Suppose you can:
1) make 1,000 rounds per hour (casting, loading, everything)
2) buy equivalent 1,000 rounds for $500
3) make soap and sell it for a net profit of $600/hr.
If everything used to create those 1,000 rounds is free, you are still losing $100/hr making your own ammo. It would make more business sense to make & sell soap. Then you would have 1,000 rounds plus $100, not just 1,000 rounds.
*
Now if you enjoy making ammo &/or hate making soap, then consider that $100 opportunity cost as the expense of entertainment or self-medication. Technically speaking, those 1,000 rounds were not free. Practically speaking, those rounds were free.

[Three44s]

Economics is only part of the equation.

Personal preferences also weigh in.

Take work for instance: If a person has a job that pays X amount but hates it. Is that person wrong to take a pay cut to be more happy? It's personal preference!

Money is not everything in life.

My preference is to be self sufficient in the ability to bear arms. Handloading allows me to shoot more with better ammo suited to my needs and perform better in my guns. I buy ammo at times for various reasons but I also handload for every single gun I can except rimfire. I might take that up as well. I might take up recycling cenerfire primers also for the reason of self sufficiency.

I recently found a set of swaging dies for a reasonable price in .224 so I can expand into J words there. My casting bottoms out at .257" thus far.

You can buy a big pile of anything but it is still a finite quantity. When it runs out, you are out. The more self reliant you are, the more you can work around shortages. Also, I believe that shortages in the future will get worse, not easier.

..... and if I am wrong, then we will all be the better for it!

Three44s

[Budzilla 19]

9mm and 45? I’m going to load them like I have always, for economy and because.............. I like doing it! Budget? Yep, got one of them, too, since retirement kicked in! My stash of lead and components I bought while working, I’m in the same boat as the others on here as far stacking it deep. Scrounging, shopping, and just plain old good luck, I’m set to load 9&45 till I get tired of loading them! It is definitely worth it to me to reload these two calibers, at least in my humble opinion only. As for others, I don’t know your particular situation, so......