Need help buying an M1 Carbine

[John22193]

Hello all this is my first post in the forum since I joined a few months ago. Anyway to my current conundrum.

So a family friend recently offered to me the opportunity to purchase an M1 Carbine. One being a late 1942 Inland, and the other being an early 1943 Rock-ola. I do not have any pictures because I didn’t think to take any when I saw them for the first time so bear with me and my description. Both have their original WW2 barrels, flat top bolts, if I recall correctly all parts on both guns are blued and all blueing appears to be original and in nice condition. I also did not find any import marks on the barrel. Both rifle’s have the stamped adjustable rear sight, type 3 barrel band with the bayonet lug, rotary style safety, low wood stocks with oval oiler slot, the inland has a straight stock while the Rock-ola has a pot belly stock (the stock on the rock-ola was also a Winchester stock), I cannot remember if the hand guards were the old 2 rivet or the later 4 rivet style. But I do remember that the wood on both guns matched in color very very well with their respective hand guards. So that’s a plus.

My friend has not given me a price but has asked me for a fair price for one of them. He wishes to put the money towards a very nice shotgun for competition shooting so that’s a little background of where the money I give him will go.

So my question to all of you folks is which one should I buy? And how much would be fair?

Thank you in Advance for your help!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Hi John-- welcome to the Castboolits Forum. Rock-ola has always been considered to be more of a collectors item than Inland, which made the largest number. For practical applications there's no difference at all. I sold a 100% original Standard Products carbine on Gunbroker last Fall for $1,300. I have to believe that the Rock-ola would be worth that much, the Inland perhaps a hundred or two less. Best way to find out what they are going for is to visit www.Gunbroker.com and do a search for M1 Carbines, see what they starting bids are and what they finally sell for.

DG

[GONRA]

GONRA sez: French .30 Carbine ammo has CORROSIVE primers.
Watch for 50 rd. boxes LC 53 (I think) ammo:
EYEBALLS just like US GI but is Chicom Berdan primed CORROSIVE! !!

[Joby]

Maybe buy both of them. Watch them grow in value then struggle with which one to MAYBE let go.
Either way don’t delay before they are gone.

[MrWolf]

All they have been doing is going up in price. I've been looking at them on and off for a few years. I keep comparing them to new production as I am not a collector. Good luck.
Ron

[georgerkahn]

Hi John-- welcome to the Castboolits Forum. Rock-ola has always been considered to be more of a collectors item than Inland, which made the largest number. For practical applications there's no difference at all. I sold a 100% original Standard Products carbine on Gunbroker last Fall for $1,300. I have to believe that the Rock-ola would be worth that much, the Inland perhaps a hundred or two less. Best way to find out what they are going for is to visit www.Gunbroker.com and do a search for M1 Carbines, see what they starting bids are and what they finally sell for.

DG

If it was me, I'd but them BOTH!!! If only one was in my budget, without a doubt it would be the Rock-Ola. For your info, Inland produced roughly 2,632,097 carbines, as the manufacturer with greatest production numbers. The ninth, in numbers, was Rock-Ola -- turning out roughly 228,500. Just as many firearms with the name "Winchester" will command higher prices than sisters made by others (including the M1 carbine ), so it is with Rock-Ola -- primarily due, so I've read, from it's parent Juke Box Manufacturing roots. (Winchester produced ~828,059 carbines).
I have seen carbines produced by Rock-Ola Music Company being SOLD at prices higher than $3,200.00USD! Inland's *I* have seen went about one thousand dollars less.
I cannot speak re today's market -- but, these fine arms all were made quite a while back in years, and their availability decreases almost daily! Read (if you haven't) Der Gebirgsjager's post (#2) -- he pretty much says it all.
Good luck!!!
geo

[Markopolo]

Well, I will say this. I have 2… the famed rockola, and an inland. My inland is not finicky at all about cast bullets and will pretty much shoot anything you can stuff into it… My rockola is way different.

Also, if you are buying to be a collector, buy the rockola. But if you want a shooter for playing in the field and bouncing around in your truck, save some cash and grab the inland.

Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary..

[Adam Helmer]

John,

Welcome to this Forum; many smarter folks will gladly help. Why do you want an M1 Carbine? are you a collector or do you want a shooter?

If I had the chance to buy two M1 Carbines today, I would BUY Both! Carbines are an endangered species in the gun world. You are lucky-buy both.

Adam

[jimb16]

I'm a carbine collector. Price depends on two things; originality and condition. All things being equal, the Rock-Ola will bring twice the money of an Inland. Without seeing the carbines, I can't give you any realistic idea of value. An early but rebuilt Inland could go for as little as $900. But a very early Inland that is all original could go as high as $3000 in near perfect condition. The Rock-Ola could range from $1200 up to $5000. I paid $2500 for my Rock-Ola. It is early and all correct but only in average condition. My early Inland is all original and in very good condition and I paid $1800 for it. You really need to study up on carbines to know what you are looking at to be able to gauge the real value. Just so you understand, there are rare variants too. I have an Inland M1A1 that I paid $5000 for and I also have a National Postal Meter that started life as a subcontract Auto Ordnance receiver made for IBM and ended up built by NPM. There were only around 1400 of those made. I have no idea how much that one is worth, but I wouldn't even consider selling it for less than $5000 due to the rarity of it.

[georgerkahn]

I'm a carbine collector. Price depends on two things; originality and condition. All things being equal, the Rock-Ola will bring twice the money of an Inland. Without seeing the carbines, I can't give you any realistic idea of value. An early but rebuilt Inland could go for as little as $900. But a very early Inland that is all original could go as high as $3000 in near perfect condition. The Rock-Ola could range from $1200 up to $5000. I paid $2500 for my Rock-Ola. It is early and all correct but only in average condition. My early Inland is all original and in very good condition and I paid $1800 for it. You really need to study up on carbines to know what you are looking at to be able to gauge the real value. Just so you understand, there are rare variants too. I have an Inland M1A1 that I paid $5000 for and I also have a National Postal Meter that started life as a subcontract Auto Ordnance receiver made for IBM and ended up built by NPM. There were only around 1400 of those made. I have no idea how much that one is worth, but I wouldn't even consider selling it for less than $5000 due to the rarity of it.

What jimb16 wrote -- here above -- is 100% accurate and correct! I will add, too, that "the story" accompanying many carbines really has a major inflationary effect on their pricing. Examples include "coffin carbines" -- those sold in the 1960s by the NRA which were shipped in cardboard boxes which have the shape of a traditional coffin; "bring-backs" -- carbines which were (so they claim) brought back by soldiers, parts-wise un-touched -- also commanding bigger bucks; and, carbines which have receivers that were sub-contracted to other than original manufacturer. Lastly are a couple of -- not necessarily deal-breakers, but pricing deficits to many -- which include IMPORTS, bearing stampings from the respective importers; and, on a few, having not-approved barrels. Notably those made by Herlo. In my earlier post I meant to add a link to a good carbine barrel reference. Here it is: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/barrels.html
I am aware of thirty different "combinations" of manufactured M1 Carbines, and Larry Ruth -- in his War Baby's book -- provided numbers from most, to least, manufactured. I've included it here for your reference. Also -- "money-money-money" being the boss -- there ARE lots and lots of fakes out their, from what I understand, as well.

[DougGuy]

In that situation, I agree with the others and buy both. For one they will continue to escalate in value and decrease in availability, and the other reason, if you buy one now, I bet $20 to a nickel that you will eventually be kicking self in butt for not getting both when the chance was there. Either way, welcome to the forum!

[John22193]

Yes I have heard from my dad that it was lake city 52 brass to watch out for with reloading because their berdan primed. But I did not know about the French .30 carbine being corrosive primers so thank you for the heads up Gonra. If I ever find any to buy for dirt cheap while out and about I’ll now know to clean my future gun or guns appropriately.

[Bmi48219]

If you can afford both, buy them. They don’t take up a lot of room.
I believe the rotary safety(s) were retro-fit late in the war.

[John22193]

I would also like to thank Der Gebirgsjager, georgekahn, and jimb16 for your help with pricing and directing me to online resources to help with my purchase. And hearing about your personal collections or experiences definitely helped with my decision to buy both Carbines from my friend and have the inland as my main shooter and keep the rock-ola as more of a collectors item but still use it on occasion.

So thank you all again for helping my out!!! I’ll post the pictures of my new toys when I get them but if any of you all have any other good info I should know in general about m1 carbines please post it here.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I think that you've made exactly the right decision. You're fortunate to have the resources to buy both carbines, and I'd try to get a good price based on the fact that you're taking both. We'll be looking forward to seeing your pictures. Again, welcome to the CB Forum!

DG

[georgerkahn]

I once again concur with Der Gebirgsjager 100%, and also welcome you to the forum! I will add -- in addition to my sincere congratulations on your purchasing both -- a cautionary note I hope you will not take lightly. We all know the carbines were made in the early 1940s, but we do NOT know what has been the "life" of each in the years, since. A few were kept in pristine condition; and, a few were allowed to rust and suffer countless other atrocities. Hopefully, the most -- including the two you are purchasing -- fit in-between these extremes.
I bought a Quality carbine at a fair price and -- perhaps for me to "brag about it" -- took it to a gunsmith for his eval. It turned out he found a six-dollar (my cost) spring which had lost its "springiness" (rust) through the years, enabling me to have a 100% safe, functioning firearm for years, since! Had I not taken it to 'smith???
What I am (strongly) suggesting is your -- assuming of course that you are not a gunsmith -- having both arms checked out/examined by someone familiar with them before you load/shoot either? Lastly on this issue -- make sure the barrel is 101% free of any oil, grease, Cosmoline, or ??? in its interior. (My Quality's barrel looked OK -- but I could barely pull a brush through it when I bought it -- took a lot of pulls with Shooter's Choice to clean it.)
Again -- congrats and best wishes!
geo

[jimb16]

Yes I have heard from my dad that it was lake city 52 brass to watch out for with reloading because their berdan primed. But I did not know about the French .30 carbine being corrosive primers so thank you for the heads up Gonra. If I ever find any to buy for dirt cheap while out and about I’ll now know to clean my future gun or guns appropriately.

First: the LC 52 ammo that is corrosive/berdan primed is the chinese knock-off ammo only. It usually shows up in boxes marked 7.62 mm, not .30 carbine. Second, the French corrosive ammo is actually in a shorter cartridge case. Post WWII the french were not allowed to have "military firearms, but were allowed to have carbines provided that they used the shorter cartridge, so military ammo could not be fired in them. I think they hoped the corrosive ammo would shorten the life of those rifles,,,,

[DougGuy]

I would also like to thank Der Gebirgsjager, georgekahn, and jimb16 for your help with pricing and directing me to online resources to help with my purchase. And hearing about your personal collections or experiences definitely helped with my decision to buy both Carbines from my friend and have the inland as my main shooter and keep the rock-ola as more of a collectors item but still use it on occasion.

So thank you all again for helping my out!!! I’ll post the pictures of my new toys when I get them but if any of you all have any other good info I should know in general about m1 carbines please post it here.

You made the right choice! GLW the carbines!!

[36g]

Congratulations on your finds! As noted by several, any GI carbine is good, just some better than others from a collecting standpoint. When the overseas carbines hit the market some years ago I had the opportunity to get several - Standard Products, Saginaw Gear (S'G'), Winchester, and National Postal. None were WWII original as they had been through the post-war rework program and had rotary safeties, Type 3 barrel bands, adjustable rear sights, pot belly stocks, etc. Sold all but the Winchester. In any case, I'm sure you'll be happy with them as they are a unique collectable and fun to shoot.

[45workhorse]

Jealous I am!
A barb-b que gun, and a daily bang around in the truck gun!
Good deal!!!!