S&W 38 DA Top Break 2nd Mod: Smokeless powder loads

[mkj4him]

I just acquired a 38 DA top break made in the late 1800’s. It was made for black powder loads pushing a 146 gr lead bullet.
Does anyone have this gun and load for it? Please share your recipes.

[Outpost75]

Soft-swaged 148 HBWC bullet seated out long to 1.15" OAL with 2.0-2.3 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup.

[mkj4him]

I do have 148 wad cutter mold but double ended. Not hollow based. Should still work though especially if sized up a bit by powder coat. I coat them clear so still look like shiny silver

[shooting on a shoestring]

Please don’t put any Trail Boss in it.
That old girl will do fine with light loads of Bullseye, Titegroup, Red Dot or even Unique.
But Trail Boss is not a low pressure powder. It is a low velocity powder but not low pressure.

With your top break revolver and your 148 double ended wadcutter, I’d be loading 1.6 grains of Bullseye which is the low end of data from Lyman 3rd edition with the 141 grain boolit 358495. The estimated velocity for that is 510 fps. Lyman gives the max for that boolit as 2.4 grains Bullseye and estimated velocity of 720 fps.

If you seat it out long like Outpost75 recommends, I agree you could use another couple of tenths of Bullseye. The 38 S&W case is small so the pressure will move a lot with a little bit of change in case capacity/seating depth.

You want to use enough powder to consistently get the boolit out of the barrel. But stop there. It’s an antique gun with antique metallurgy in an antique design. It’d be great to shoot it some but leave it shootable for the next few generations too.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I’ll add that I use 2.5 grains Bullseye in my Model 33 from the 1960’s with Accurate 36-130E. I consider that max for a Modern day solid top strap heat treated 38S&W.

[pworley1]

Most all of the starting loads for Bullseye and Red Dot have worked well in all my antique S&W 38's.

[mkj4him]

Thank you. I’ll study up in my books and on suggestions here. I have a number, if not all powders listed here. Thanks for the heads up on trail boss. My dies and brass should arrive this week and I will start working on it. Once the 38 mold arrives I’ll cast a few and post pictures. I’ll most likely want to shoot those mostly.

[mkj4him]

Would you say the 38 DA is more or less powerful than the 380 auto? You have a heavier bullet going slower than the standard 90 gr bullet at 800-900 in 380

[pettypace]

Would you say the 38 DA is more or less powerful than the 380 auto? You have a heavier bullet going slower than the standard 90 gr bullet at 800-900 in 380

Even at just 550 f/s, the .38 WC would give FBI-approved penetration and damage more tissue than a .38 caliber FMJ at considerably higher velocity. Consider the wound mass comparison in the graph below:

[mkj4him]

That is very interesting information. Thanks.
Would a SWC cause a similar wounding effect? Or less?
Now that I think about it, I think the flat surface of the WC would cause more hydrostatic disruption than the SWC

[Tall]

I am using 3.0 grains of Unique with a 146 grain bullet. Seems to be a pretty good load.
https://reloadammo.com/38-s-w-load-data/

[mkj4him]

What pistol Model?

[shooting on a shoestring]

The take home message from Pettypace and his Virgel model is that wadcutters are wicked!

Not so good at ranges over 50 yards, but under 25 which includes most defensive incidents, a big ol’ full meplat boolit is a spleen splashin’ muscle mashin’ thorax thrashin’ bone bashin’ nerve gnashin’ chest crashin’ organ smashin’ kick-ashin’ mean piece of lead!

[mkj4him]

I just smiled. ��

[Tall]

What pistol Model?

Mine is an Enfield made in 1942 - far stronger than a S&W top break designed for black powder.

[mkj4him]

My bullet mold just arrived. Loading dies and Starline cases arrive Wednesday.

[mkj4him]

Mine is an Enfield made in 1942 - far stronger than a S&W top break designed for black powder.

I would like one of those

[Ajohns]

I use the same loads Outpost 75 posted, with your same gun but 4"
It shoots to sights at 15 yds, and pretty darn good. My groove measured .360 so the hollowbase wc is nice for that. Load it to same overall length as the factory 146gr round.

[Frank V]

That’s a nice old gun, enjoy. Remember the pressure curve for black powder is very different than the pressure curve of smokeless even if pressures are similar.

[mkj4him]

So far with 154 gr lead SWC over 1.8gr red dot I’m getting around 550 fps. This a sampling of just 5 rounds though.
1.6 gr red dot under a 148gr solid based wad cutter was doing just under 500 fps.
I’m going to increase to 1.9 and 2 gr with the 148 wc. Same with 154. I will then switch to Unique and maybe 231.

I don’t expect to get these more than 600. I’ve cleaned my new 146 gr RN and installed handles. I will possible cast a few tomorrow. I’ll be testing those with powder coating.