Fire-forming oddity

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=RonnieMilsurp;5608560]I do not. What's the potential problem with just firing it with a charge of BP and a bullet?

cant think of one ....348 winchester brass is some of the toughest you will find
mark the base or cut a little nick in the rim that lets you orient the case in the chamber so the bulged side is down and straight side up

I made a couple hundred 348 cases over to 45/75 without hassles - pretty much followed Wallaces' system - step by step slowly with expanding dies - I annealed twice - first time before I started then again towards the end - made the expanders out of some high tensile bolts - I found a match up for the thread in a RCBS die body then turned the bolts in the lathe - you could do it in a drill press ok - make em with a gentle taper so the end is just small enough to enter the case neck without swelling it - works like a pilot and keeps things all straight.

.......

[RonnieMilsurp]

Thanks. If I end up going this route, what rating of bolts did you use? I'm still a bit hazy on how to identify strength vs hardness. From what I can tell, a grade 8 bolt has high tensile strength but may or may not be hardened. I've tried turning a hard bolt in a drill press before...I don't have that much spare time.

[TD1886]

I reckon I can fireform an awful lot of cases for $258.99 worth of powder and primers.

That was my largest complaint about doing it that way. I didn't do very many that way.

[RonnieMilsurp]

Just did 2 more from fresh cases. Put about 1/8" of tape next to the rim to fill out the space in the chamber. Upped the powder half a grain, pre-trimmed the case. Fired exactly vertical. Got the exact same results. I even re-cast the chamber to make sure I'm not crazy, and it looks normal. Straight walls, just like Mr Springfield intended.

I am putting 6 grains of Win 244 (don't have Trail Boss or any shotgun powder) and filling the rest pretty tightly with corn meal, then capping with wax. The only thing I can think of is that the powder is still settling to one side when I chamber it, even though there shouldn't be much room for things to shift. It's definitely always the top of the chamber that doesn't expand for the first inch. Then it blows out evenly for the last .75".

[hpbear101]

I used 348 case in my 1868 Springfield for many years until I was able to buy some Starline cases. The 348's are a little small at the base so they will always have a bulged look to them. The rims are smaller as well and were prone to slipping past the extractor (I also had a few cases that were given to me where they used a die to swaged the rim bigger they worked great). I bought a replacement extractor from Dixie and built it up slightly with a little silver solder and it work pretty well. I put the original back on when I acquired proper 50-70 cases.

I have a bag of dental rubber bands for braces. I put those around the base of a case that's a little small when I am fire forming. I used to use 38 special brass in a 41 Colt, they looked about like your cases but they worked quite well. If you can expand the mouth and get a bullet seated I would fire the cases (with tape or rubber band around the web) they should form o.k.

[uscra112]

Could the extractor be forcing the base off center in the chamber?

[deces]

It looks like a straight walled case, can't you just get a lee expander ball to open it up all the way down?

[uscra112]

Good idea, but would have to take into account that the .348 case wall thickness will taper. So the expander plug would have to taper also.

[deces]

Oversize it with the expander, then size tapper back with factory die.

[RonnieMilsurp]

I'm pretty new to the fire-forming-semi-obsolete-cases world, so forgive my ignorance. Is there a reason why not just blowing it out with an actual load isn't perfectly good? Honest question.

I find that I can fit 35 grains of Pyrodex comfortably without having to compress the powder at all. I'm running 450gr Lee bullets. I loaded up two to see what happens. Some are a bit thin at the mouth, I figure actual pressure should flow the brass towards the mouth, no?

[uscra112]

Lotta people do fireform with a near-full load. It's the final step in my process of making .22 Lovell out of .223. Ironically these loads are sometimes even accurate.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Lee makes EZ Xpander Decapping pins that have very long gentle tapers in many calibers, about $5 each at MidwayUSA. They would be start to get to .50. They have a.50 BMG tapered but do not know if it would fit in standard Lee decapping die. Might be easier than machining your own. Even mild steel would work for simple neck expanding, high polish with an easy taper, go in steps. A wrap or two of tape for centering and fire forming should help final product.

[uscra112]

If you use those Lee expanders, buy a collet nut for each one. You will wind up welding the stem to the nut once you have it adjusted. No amount of abuse with long-handle wrenches will keep them from slipping when used for reforming brass. Ask me how I know.

[Moleman-]

+another one for the expanders Wallace mentioned especially on straight walled cases. With the price of primers and powder it saves money also. I deer hunt in one of the goofy straight walled cartridge areas and usually with some sort of wildcat based off of a bottleneck case. This year it's 375 win from 30-30 cases. The first time they're getting fired it's as loaded 375.

[indian joe]

Thanks. If I end up going this route, what rating of bolts did you use? I'm still a bit hazy on how to identify strength vs hardness. From what I can tell, a grade 8 bolt has high tensile strength but may or may not be hardened. I've tried turning a hard bolt in a drill press before...I don't have that much spare time.

I used grade five (carbon steel) but a plain old bolt would probably work fine - more important is a smooth polish finish on the work surface after you're done shaping it

[indian joe]

Could the extractor be forcing the base off center in the chamber?

maybe ---but gravity is at work too...............

[deces]

Plenty to pick from.

[uscra112]

Worth knowing that those Lee expander stems appear to be nitrided, like their dies. Hard skin, but very very thin, and once you're through it the core machines like it was 12L14 or something similar. The carbide tooling I use anyway had no trouble with it, but HSS may.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I use Hornady Unique on a Q-tip to lube inside of case before expanding, makes a significant difference on ease of expanding. With lube, I haven't had much trouble with slipping but I do break neck expansion into multiple smaller steps, and go slow with each expansion, giving the brass time to move.

[uscra112]

......I do break neck expansion into multiple smaller steps, and go slow with each expansion, giving the brass time to move.

My worst "case" was expanding .17 WSM to make .25 Stevens. Took four steps and two annealings. Did not use lube for fear of contaminating the primer compound. Imperial die wax on the expander taper might have helped, but I have no other use for it, so haven't bought any.