I want help building up my first perfect load for a revolver and mold

[Stopsign32v]

My favorite revolver so far is this one, my GP100 5" limited edition. I got lucky and the lockup is great, the timing of the barrel is superb, and all of the cylinders measure at .357 so it SHOULD be a great shooter. Also I performed a trigger job on it, it has a Wolff mainspring, and all action parts have been shimmed so no rubbing. Trigger is exceptional! I just would like some better rear sights and front sight but they are currently out of stock at Bowen.







So getting to the question, I absolutely love this NOE 360-182 mold but I have yet to shoot them. I plan to PC them and size them to .358 and try. I would like to try at .359 but I don't think I have a sizing die for that (Wish LEE made one). But maybe my LEE .358 will size a little big. Questions:

1) These boolits were cast about a year ago. A little dirty but nice and sharp. Should I remelt them and do some fresh ones? I don't know what age has done to the hardening.
2) I have 43 cast and I would like to know what I need to do to work up the ideal load...
3) I want to use 2400 but don't know where to start and how much to move up per (how many rounds?). For example Lyman 50th has 180gr JHP starting @ 10gr and max @ 12.6. 50th has 170gr 358429 starting @ 9.7 and max @ 13.5. So from this where should I start some loads for PC lead 182gr?
4) If for example your starting load is 9gr how many do you load up @ 9gr before you move onto your next step? How much powder do you increase per step looking for the accuracy sweet spot?
5) Should I play with OAL at all? Do you guys always stick to the book for OAL?

[405grain]

Here's my thoughts on the matter, (and these are only opinions, not some set in stone rules or facts). First, on setting the OAL; These are heavy bullets, so they're going to need a decent crimp to keep the pistols recoil from trying to pull the bullets out of the cases. Because of this I'd recommend that you seat the bullets to the crimping groove and let that determine the OAL.

Second item: there's a lot of that bullet that's going to be inside of the case, which is going to limit the area for the powder. As we all know, when you deep seat a bullet it increases the pressure on a given powder charge. This adds an unknown into comparing loads for this bullet to those of similar weight. In example - (32 caliber pistol bullets) the Lyman #313631 is a 100 grain SWC. The RCBS 32-98-SWC is also a semi-wadcutter, and theoretically there's only 2 grains difference between the two. In actuality the Lyman bullet has most of its material in the bullet shank, and the RCBS has more material in the nose, with a shorter shank. This effects the seating depth, which gives a higher pressure for the Lyman bullet with the same charge used with the RCBS one. This is a very good reason to start at the lower powder charges and work up when you are basing the powder charge on the weight of the bullet.

To determine which load level is the most accurate, (and to check for pressure signs), I'd recommend that you load 12 rounds (two cylinders full) at each load level. Putting 12 rounds into a target will give a good representation of what to expect. If you start at 9.5 grains of 2400 and work up to 12.5 grains in half grain increments, shooting 12 shots at each level, that's only 84 bullets. You can easily cast more than that in one sitting. The standard disclaimer applies - stop at the first signs of pressure.

Again, these are just thoughts and assumptions. Safety is ALWAYS more important than velocity.

[Recycled bullet]

Make sure that the assembled ammunition fits the cylinder of the gun and do not stick past the end and infringe on proper cylinder rotation.
Also check projectile fitment in the cylinder throats , the powder coated and sized projectiles are capable of being pushed through the cylinder. If they don't fit then you're going to likely have insufferable leading. A light press fit through the cylinder throats generally makes for decent accuracy.

Once you have determined that the ammunition is capable of being functional then start at the bottom of the powder charge table and assemble some cartridges and test them and see if they're accurate. Continue gradually increasing the powder charge. In my hand loading experiments I have noticed a correlation that as I increase the powder charges group size and accuracy we'll get better and better up to about 75% of the max powder charge then will fall off before you hit pressure Max for that particular cartridge.


Now go get that gun hot.

[reddog81]

If the throats are .357 then .358 will work fine. .359 bullets will be sized the same when leaving the throats. I would set OAL by crimping into the crimp groove. I would try some at 10 grains and a few a bit higher, maybe 11 grains and make sure those all operate as expected.

43 bullets isn’t much to work with. I wouldn’t remelt the olds ones but would be casting more new ones.

[gwpercle]

The "old boolits" don't have an expiration date and if those are the ones pictured ... they look fine ... just cast some more .
Back about 30 years ago I fooled with 180 gr. boolits but didn't like the results in my Ruger Blackhawk . To my mind 180 gr. is more better in a rifle than a revolver .
I like 160 gr. weight for handguns ... the heavyweights have their own problems .

Words of advice from my Daddy ... " Son ain't nothing in life perfect , just do the best you can ! "
Gary

[NuJudge]

To work up a load, look in manuals and periodicals about similar bullets of about that weight. I particularly like the Lyman manual. You are looking for swaged or cast bullets of about that weight, that protrude into the case about as much as those bullets do. If you find loads for jacketed bullets that protrude into the case about the same amount as your cast bullet, the cast bullet will always produce lower pressures than the jacketed bullet. Here is one periodical on heavies in the .357: https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/...he-357-magnum/

Forty-three projectiles is rarely enough projectiles to work up a good load.

[Stopsign32v]

Back about 30 years ago I fooled with 180 gr. boolits but didn't like the results in my Ruger Blackhawk . To my mind 180 gr. is more better in a rifle than a revolver .

Gary

What make 180gr bad for a revolver? I like the idea of throwing heavy rocks...

[P Flados]

For the mag, the 180 really does better in rifles, but is not a terrible choice for a revolver. Do not expect impressive velocities.

There is a lot less 180 gr load data out there than is wanted. The 180 really does deserve actual load data since the bullet seats deeply, but the depth varies a lot from bullet to bullet.

Given the lack of data specific to your bullet, I ran you a Quickload table. Although the GP-100 is about as tough as it gets for a 357 mag revolver, use caution working up your max loads.

I looked up the NOE bullet drawing and it looks like it is intended for a 0.410" seating depth and a 0.30" nose extending out of the case. Using Quickload, the COAL for this seating depth is 1.590. Quickload does not account for cylinder gap, so expect to loose 50 to 100 fps from predicted velocities. Also note that Quickload barrel length is breech to muzzle, so I used a guess for cylinder length.

Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .358, 183,             360-182-WFN PB U2
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length      : 6.7 inch = 170.2 mm
Powder             : Alliant 2400

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-16.7   75    10.00   1073     468   19385   4950     77.8    0.854
-15.0   77    10.20   1095     487   20428   5102     78.9    0.833
-13.3   78    10.40   1117     507   21514   5253     80.0    0.813
-11.7   80    10.60   1139     527   22646   5403     81.0    0.793
-10.0   81    10.80   1161     548   23826   5553     82.1    0.774
-08.3   83    11.00   1184     569   25057   5702     83.0    0.756
-06.7   84    11.20   1206     591   26341   5850     84.0    0.739
-05.0   86    11.40   1228     613   27680   5996     84.9    0.722
-03.3   87    11.60   1250     635   29076   6141     85.8    0.705
-01.7   89    11.80   1272     658   30532   6284     86.7    0.689  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   90    12.00   1294     681   32051   6425     87.6    0.674  ! Near Maximum !
+01.7   92    12.20   1317     704   33635   6565     88.4    0.659  ! Near Maximum !
+03.3   93    12.40   1339     728   35288   6702     89.2    0.645  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[Stopsign32v]

Check this out!

I also have some Lil Gun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imcKcKxI6DU

[Shopdog]

I usually load up 10(my loading blocks are in lines of 10)and test. A cpl cylinders full at 15 yards is going to tell me if it's got any issues.

While enjoying some recoil in hunting handguns,understanding the "mission" of the load.... it sure is nice shooting mid range ammo for tearing out X rings. The 180's in 357 can be a handful.

Good luck with your project.

[gwpercle]

What make 180gr bad for a revolver? I like the idea of throwing heavy rocks...

The 180 grain boolits took up too much case space , couldn't get enough 2400 behind it to get the velocity I was looking for . For throwing heavier boolits I use my 41 Magnum ... more space in the boiler room .
Reading Elmer Keith's reloading book "Sixgun Cartridges & Loads" indicated that Elmer thought 160 grains was about as heavy a boolit as the 38 Special and 38/44 Outdoorsman would properly handle and 170 grains for the 357 Magnum ... the length of the boolits must fit the guns and leave enough room in the case for powder ... you reach a point when things (boolits) get Too heavy and/or Too long.

I worked with a 170 grain Keith SWC (Lyman 358429) for a long time but the accuracy wasn't there and went back to 150 gr. to 160 gr. WC's and SWC's ... more accurate and decent velocity with the powder space .

But that was a long time ago ... with all the new powders out nowdays there may be something that works just great with the long 180 gr. boolits .
All I had was 2400 , Unique , Alcan #5 and Bullseye to work with ...

Go For It !
Good Luck and keep us posted !
Gary

[Stopsign32v]

I think I'm going to try Lil Gun instead of 2400 as around here Lil Gun is MUCH easier to find if I need more. I don't want to use up my 2400

[Walter Laich]

▲ good point on using powder you can find.

as mentioned above what is your "mission"?
hunting
target shooting
sending out the biggest ball of flame behind the bullet as possible?
noise?

all are valid, and legal; just need to know what you're working towards

[Stopsign32v]

▲ good point on using powder you can find.

as mentioned above what is your "mission"?
hunting
target shooting
sending out the biggest ball of flame behind the bullet as possible?
noise?

all are valid, and legal; just need to know what you're working towards

Accuracy is #1

I don't care too much if it is top of the charge or not. Not looking for 1500fps

I noticed that I have a mold with the gas check option too on the 360-182. I'm going to load up some gas checked identical loads and see if that increases accuracy or not. If it is minimal though I doubt I'll continue down that path.

[Stopsign32v]

Just trying to keep this thread up to date for any researching in the future...Very skeptical now about Lil Gun powder for revolver loading. https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/l...isited.402499/

I do know that Buffalo Bore uses a powder that looks identical (we can go ahead and say it is Lil Gun) with their 180gr loadings. It also appears that the damage that is reported could be attributed to light weight bullets in front of Lil Gun. So one would question if 180gr and Lil Gun would be ok. Reports are that Lil Gun will heat up a revolver very hot with as little as 6 rounds. Questioning if it is even worth trying...

[charlie b]

I tried 180gn in my .357 revolver, once (it was my Contender load). Went back to 140's and 158's. After having 2 SP101's I sometimes think about getting a 3" version or a GP100 4". I like plinking with a revolver cause I don't have to pick brass up off the floor.

[Stopsign32v]

I tried 180gn in my .357 revolver, once (it was my Contender load). Went back to 140's and 158's. After having 2 SP101's I sometimes think about getting a 3" version or a GP100 4". I like plinking with a revolver cause I don't have to pick brass up off the floor.

No offense but I do not like the SP101, mainly due to 2 reasons. 1 I believe all revolvers should have 6 chambers...No more, no less. 2 I do not like the size of the SP101.

The GP100 to me is the perfect size Ruger offers for a DA revolver. A 3" GP100 half shroud is on my list.

[P Flados]

A few years ago I had problems with inconsistent ignition with a jug of H110 after years of acceptable performance from W296. I went looking for an alternate. I looked at Lil Gun and there were numerous reports of issues. I decided I wanted to avoid anything with mixed reports for performance.

I tried IMR 4227 and was not happy.

I found some WC 680 (milsurp for 1680) and liked it even though it was just a little "on the slow side" for some of my loads. Then I came across a deal on some SW Heavy pistol (very close to 2400) and decided to try some. I am now happy with this pair even if I give up "just a tad" to H110 or Lil Gun.

If I had to try something else in this range, Enforcer would be a choice I would be looking for. I might also think about AA7, AA9 or 11FS.

[fredj338]

If the throats are .357 then .358 will work fine. .359 bullets will be sized the same when leaving the throats. I would set OAL by crimping into the crimp groove. I would try some at 10 grains and a few a bit higher, maybe 11 grains and make sure those all operate as expected.

43 bullets isn’t much to work with. I wouldn’t remelt the olds ones but would be casting more new ones.

^^THIS^^ It sint going to matter much if you size 358 or 359 if the throats are 357. That will be the bullets size as it hits the bore.

[Harter66]

Without troding on the above you're almost certain in a revolver to have a chamber that tosses 1 out . It might be an inch at 50 yd but it could be its own group at 25 yd . Eliminate that early if possible. Next up work the load up in preferably the tightest chamber as long as it's not the one that tosses .

I like 5 rounds per step , steps in 10th divisions of the load window , skipping the start load and maximum load . Those 2 will be self resolved if they are the load .

You'll never get a best load for the whole cylinder and if you chase it the 2-3 that cut the same holes are going to cause you as much grief as the tosser .