Ed’s Red Recipe Mod

[Shawlerbrook]

Don’t think I want to mess with xylene and MEK. ATF ,mineral spirit and kerosene.

[charlie b]

Been using Red for years now. ATF(Dexron synthetic), Mineral Spirits (low odor), Kerosene and acetone.

I do have a question about the mix. Some bits from Ed's article (at least one that I have).
------------------------------
The original intent was to mimic the arsenal's bore cleaner which was acetone, turpentine, Pratts Astral Oil and sperm oil. [Sperm oil was used for Dexron until they came up with a synthetic blend (IIIG was the first IIRC) so that part is 'easy' to understand].

Pratts Astral oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene. I recommend "K1" kerosene of the type normally sold for use in indoor space heaters.

gum spirits of turpentine. Because turpentine is expensive today, and is also an "aromatic" solvent, which is highly flammable, I chose not to use it. Safer and cheaper is "aliphatic mineral spirits," a petroleum based "safety solvent" used for thinning oil based paints and also widely used as an automotive parts cleaner. It is commonly sold under the names "odorless mineral spirits," "Stoddard Solvent" or "Varsol".
--------------------------------------------

So, my problem. I got some K-1 Kerosene to use in the mix. I looked at the SDS and it says it is Stoddard Solvent. So I looked up what was in Kerosene and Stoddard solvent and it seems they are both hydrocarbon chains with just a minor difference. This same thing is common across many of the different 'mineral spirits' and low odor paint thinners out there these days. Then 'discovered' that it was just a trade name for a 'new' dry cleaning fluid that was based on mineral spirits. Mineral spirits are 'graded' and K-1 is one of those grades. So, the 'Kerosene K-1' I bought at the store is actually grade K-1 Mineral Spirits.

I guess I'd like to know why a Stoddard Solvent and Kerosene (lamp/heating oil) are needed in the mix. Chemically they are closely related and their uses seem to overlap in industry.

Short answer for now is I will just use the 'kerosene' or 'low odor mineral spirits' depending on what I have a surplus of.

But, I do wonder if the turpentine would help. It is a different compound but still a HC chain (terpenes vs alkanes). Just to be complete, acetone is also a hydrocarbon of the ketone family. So, the original arsenal mix was a terpene, alkane and ketone (probably why some can substitute MEK for the acetone).

Yes, this is nit-picking. But, I am still curious about the mix and reasoning.

FWIW, I have gone through a similar analysis looking for the 'proper' lamp oil to use in my antique lamps. That gets complicated by the flash points of the various grades of fuel. I don't call it kerosene anymore since that term seems to not mean the same thing in different brands/products.

[HWooldridge]

Charlie B,

Your reasoning and questions are why I asked the question in the first place. Stoddard solvent, naphtha, kerosene and diesel are all about the same from a degreaser perspective. The acetone is a great solvent - so is xylene, toluene, etc. One might conclude lacquer thinner would also work well.

I used turpentine because I already had some in the shop (and I like the smell). Just for fun, I also thought about adding a couple ounces of Hoppes #9.

I don’t think anyone can go wrong with the original recipe but tweaks are the spice of life…

[greenjoytj]

Anyone know what the original 9 ingredients that were in Hoppe’s #9?
I know one ingredient was the banana oil scent, which put me and 50% of firearm enthusiast off using Hoppe’s 9.
I know benzene was eliminated decades ago due to it being a know carcinogen.

I have a small bottle of Hoppe’s that came in a cardboard box with a glass bottle inside, the bottle has a metal top.

Acetone is just too damaging to so many substances like plastics and paint I would not have it near any of my firearms.


Pet peeve, to see firearm cleaning solvents touted as a plastic remover, yet the product(s) are sold in plastic bottles.

[steveu]

I thought that the reason Turpentine was included in the mix is due to its ability to migrate under any lead in the barrel and free it so it can be wiped out easier.

[TD1886]

Xylene and MEK...it's not just for Breakfast anymore

You got that right, I worked with both of those, bad doo doo. Another one kind of in that family is toluene. I believe that is one of the things they removed from plastic model glue because kids were squeezing the glue inside a paper bad and getting high. NOT ME!!

[TD1886]

Anyone know what the original 9 ingredients that were in Hoppe’s #9?
I know one ingredient was the banana oil scent, which put me and 50% of firearm enthusiast off using Hoppe’s 9.
I know benzene was eliminated decades ago due to it being a know carcinogen.

I have a small bottle of Hoppe’s that came in a cardboard box with a glass bottle inside, the bottle has a metal top.

Acetone is just too damaging to so many substances like plastics and paint I would not have it near any of my firearms.


Pet peeve, to see firearm cleaning solvents touted as a plastic remover, yet the product(s) are sold in plastic bottles.

I believe that was hydro bensene that was removed.

[TD1886]

Anyone know what the original 9 ingredients that were in Hoppe’s #9?
I know one ingredient was the banana oil scent, which put me and 50% of firearm enthusiast off using Hoppe’s 9.
I know benzene was eliminated decades ago due to it being a know carcinogen.

I have a small bottle of Hoppe’s that came in a cardboard box with a glass bottle inside, the bottle has a metal top.

Acetone is just too damaging to so many substances like plastics and paint I would not have it near any of my firearms.


Pet peeve, to see firearm cleaning solvents touted as a plastic remover, yet the product(s) are sold in plastic bottles.

There are literally hundreds of different plastic families.

[deces]

[TD1886]

Been using Red for years now. ATF(Dexron synthetic), Mineral Spirits (low odor), Kerosene and acetone.

I do have a question about the mix. Some bits from Ed's article (at least one that I have).
------------------------------
The original intent was to mimic the arsenal's bore cleaner which was acetone, turpentine, Pratts Astral Oil and sperm oil. [Sperm oil was used for Dexron until they came up with a synthetic blend (IIIG was the first IIRC) so that part is 'easy' to understand].

Pratts Astral oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene. I recommend "K1" kerosene of the type normally sold for use in indoor space heaters.

gum spirits of turpentine. Because turpentine is expensive today, and is also an "aromatic" solvent, which is highly flammable, I chose not to use it. Safer and cheaper is "aliphatic mineral spirits," a petroleum based "safety solvent" used for thinning oil based paints and also widely used as an automotive parts cleaner. It is commonly sold under the names "odorless mineral spirits," "Stoddard Solvent" or "Varsol".
--------------------------------------------

So, my problem. I got some K-1 Kerosene to use in the mix. I looked at the SDS and it says it is Stoddard Solvent. So I looked up what was in Kerosene and Stoddard solvent and it seems they are both hydrocarbon chains with just a minor difference. This same thing is common across many of the different 'mineral spirits' and low odor paint thinners out there these days. Then 'discovered' that it was just a trade name for a 'new' dry cleaning fluid that was based on mineral spirits. Mineral spirits are 'graded' and K-1 is one of those grades. So, the 'Kerosene K-1' I bought at the store is actually grade K-1 Mineral Spirits.

I guess I'd like to know why a Stoddard Solvent and Kerosene (lamp/heating oil) are needed in the mix. Chemically they are closely related and their uses seem to overlap in industry.

Short answer for now is I will just use the 'kerosene' or 'low odor mineral spirits' depending on what I have a surplus of.

But, I do wonder if the turpentine would help. It is a different compound but still a HC chain (terpenes vs alkanes). Just to be complete, acetone is also a hydrocarbon of the ketone family. So, the original arsenal mix was a terpene, alkane and ketone (probably why some can substitute MEK for the acetone).

Yes, this is nit-picking. But, I am still curious about the mix and reasoning.

FWIW, I have gone through a similar analysis looking for the 'proper' lamp oil to use in my antique lamps. That gets complicated by the flash points of the various grades of fuel. I don't call it kerosene anymore since that term seems to not mean the same thing in different brands/products.

Stoddard Solvent and Kerosene are entirelly different. MEK is methyl ethel ketone. It's a bad doo doo too. One shouldn't be buning Stoddard Solvent in devices made to burn keronsene especially indoors.

One of the first things they do to crude oil when it comes into the refinery is run it through a distillation tower. The first things that vaporize off are called the light ends. Think solvents. As you go up the tower the distilled liquids get heavier. Like kerosene and diesel oil. Continues on to every heavier liquids like light oils, etc. until it gets the heavy ends. Then what is left can not be distilled in the standard distillation tower and that then goes to a vacuum distillation tower. That is a dangerous piece of equiptment because refiniers use steam to heat thing and if one drop of water condensation gets inside a vacuum distillation tower BOOM in a big way. Vacuum distillation towers are in two halves lenght wise that can be openned and closed. I say this because when you distill everything out of the crude oil what you have left is coke and dirt. Yes coke, and refineries make 80% of the coke used in the U.S. not coal!!

[jonp]

Just ATF and kerosine for me.

What I use.
ATF/Acetone for penetrating oil works better than store bought

[gwpercle]

I haven't seen any proclamations from Ed about changing the original 4 part fomula ,
Acetone , ATF , K-1 Kerosene and Mineral Spirits , of his Ed's Red Gun Solvent ...
and I've been keeping an eye out for any changes he wants to suggest ...

I'm just going to Keep On Keeping On with the formula (01 / 10 / 98) Ed's Red Revisited that I've been going by ... I ain't changing a thing unless Ed says to do it .
Gary

[super6]

You might want to look into ATF fluid as some are loaded with detergents I soaked a set off starret mics In that stuff and they rusted so bad I had to through them out.

[farmbif]

with kroil at over $100 gallon these days ive been thinking about mixing up a good size batch and thought I'd want to get it right and came across this.

http://www.lasc.us/EdsRedBoreCleaner.htm

this article by ed Harris could probably be useful as a sticky

[fastdadio]

with kroil at over $100 gallon these days ive been thinking about mixing up a good size batch and thought I'd want to get it right and came across this.

http://www.lasc.us/EdsRedBoreCleaner.htm

this article by ed Harris could probably be useful as a sticky

Kroil is good stuff, but very expensive. I use it in the garage for what it's made for. I modified the Ed's red formula by substituting the atf with two stroke engine oil with TC-W3. It does everything the atf does in the mix and more. It's the tc-w3 additive I'm after.
In short, the TC-w3 additive is a concentrated additive package that contains an aggressive detergent, dissolves carbon, and adds lubricity to the oil. It's also a fuel stabilizer. It's designed to clean and lube the combustion chamber, power valve, piston head and rings and exhaust systems in two stroke engines. What's not to like about that? Anyone who has torn into a two stroke engine knows about burnt carbon build up. There is a lot written about the benefits of TC-w3 additive. So here ya go, start reading;
https://forums.iboats.com/threads/ex...-w3-mean.6830/

https://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91206

https://www.saltwatersportsman.com/t...-fishing-boat/

[farmbif]

ive still got a few gallons of yamalube 2 stroke around might just try some of that

[fastdadio]

ive still got a few gallons of yamalube around might just try some of that

I'm pretty sure Yamalube has TC-w3 in it. Generally any oil that has it will list it on the label.
Here's a link;
https://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets...ine%20Oils.pdf
Listed as Yamalube 2M