Is there a point to water dropping cast ?

[Kosh75287]

I don't agree with the statement that water-quenching does NOT increase their hardness. This may be true of pure lead, or perhaps even nearly pure lead alloys (1:40 tin:lead?), but it is not true of Lyman #2 or "Hardball" alloys. I've tested this myself, and not with a reloader's hardness tester, but with a full-size industrial-standard Brinnell Hardness tester.
I'm not sure of the minimum wt./wt.% of antimony is necessary to "heat treat" projectiles, but 0.25% arsenic seems to be enough. Depending on the process involved, 0.5% is sometimes used. Whether arsenic in an alloy that is free of antimony will heat treat is unclear to me, but on a guess, I suspect it would work.

[Ed_Shot]

Load alloy with > 2% Sb WILL get higher BHN with water dropping in COLD (ice) water. As will allow faster hardening. I WD out of the oven when PCing, AFTER 1/2 hr @ 400F. A 10-15 min oven bake will NOT work. 1-2% Sb will eventually harden a bit, not very much, Sn=Sb works better at that low %. WD in ice water works when dropped from the mold, same % rules as above. I size and load a within a couple days after WD, even WD takes a couple days to 'cure' properly.

Totally agree with POPPER. Here is an excellent thread on water quenching and boolit hardness. Watch the video.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...7-PC-Questions

[GONRA]

GONRA "water quenches" all water cast boolits. Just for the hell of it.....
RANGE LEAD.
short L/D Lyman /Lee "Pistol Boolits"
Lubed with pure ALOX 2138F purchased decade ago.
Lyman Lube Sizer......
Verks Just Fine for me...........

[Winger Ed.]

GONRA "water quenches" all cast boolits. Just for the hell of it..... ...

That's pretty much where I'm at.

I'm also wondering when this powder coating fad will go away like moly coating everything did and
the big need to have your barrels cryo-treated.

[Hannibal]

All joking aside, if you do water quench make sure they are completely dry before storing them. Otherwise you'll wind up with 'fuzzy' boolits that are potentially hazardous to handle.

Learned this the hard way.

[fredj338]

That's pretty much where I'm at.

I'm also wondering when this powder coating fad will go away like moly coating everything did and
the big need to have your barrels cryo-treated.

I was slow to PC but I think its here to stay. Unlike moly, it doesnt deposit in the bore. So ne downside to using it. My guns shoot waaay cleaner with PC vs lubed.

[fredj338]

fredj338, I agree that when you pc, you lose any gain in hardness you may have gained from water drop.

If I want a harder bullet, I will water drop out of the PC oven. Works great & bullets can be handled immediately.

[oley55]

If I want a harder bullet, I will water drop out of the PC oven. Works great & bullets can be handled immediately.

I am/was under the impression heat treating bullets require 450-460 degrees for 45-60 minutes. I wonder if our normal PC temp/cook times are adequate. How to you check the hardness of the alloy under the PC?

[facetious]

https://www.nzha.co.nz/wp-content/up...tBullets-s.pdf

Go to page #117

More here to answer your questions.

[Maven]

All, You may want to research (Google) Dennis Marshall's articles on water quenching/dropping that appeared in various publications, e.g., for Lyman, RCBS, the NRA. Said articles tell you how to do it and what hardness you'll get with a given alloy.

[Walstr]

I'm not a chemist, but I'd heard more than a few times there has to be a certain amount of Antimony, Arsenic, or maybe both
for them to harden/temper at all.

Quite true. My COWW + additional 2% tin produces a 'water quenched hardness' that 'age hardens' in a month. Smack with a 16oz hammer and it barely moves. Too hard for hunting Wisconsin, so I'm going to experiment with 'tempering' the nose, to permit some expansion.

[wch]

Yup, that's the way to do it.

[poppy42]

One of my very good friends is a metallurgist and pure lead can be harden. I'm not going through the process, just believe me. He's something to ponder. Back in the wooden spear day after man shaped the point they hardened it in a flame. Yeah yeah I know it's not metal.

Well Sir,
I am certainly not questioning yours or your friends knowledge or sincerity! With that being said I really really hate secondhand information! You know, my friend herd …, or I knew this guy that told me… or my uncles first wife once had a boyfriend that knew a guy…. Do you understand what I’m saying? I would be more inclined to take what your saying as fact if you were the metallurgist! Or if it was your friend that was posting! Now I can tell you, that it’s been my personal experience, that water quenching pure lead does not facilitate any additional hardening of that soft lead! On the other hand, water quenching, an alloy that contains Antimony, amongst other things like arsenic, dose induce additional hardening of that alloy. And that alloy will continue to harden over a period of time! Up to a point! It doesn’t continue to get harder and harder and harder forever!
I make these statements based on my own personal firsthand experience!
Sorry but I don’t have any friends. I don’t know any metallurgist. Now I do have nephews, but none of them knows a metallurgist either. So you can assume that my post is coming straight from the horses mouth! (or possibly the other end of the horse. That’s completely up to you!).
Thank you so much,
Poppy42

[243winxb]

Google it.

[Dancing Bear]

I water quench just to cool the bullets down quickly.

[Walstr]

Years ago, everybody cast, and dropped 'em on a towel.
Then, you had to heat treat everything. You'd put a boolit in an oven and keep raising the temp. until it 'slumped'.
Back the temp. off some, run your boolits in the oven awhile, and then dump them in cold water.

Pretty soon, some folks started dropping them out of the mold into cold water to get the tempering.
I still drop into cold water as it's just fast and handy for me.

Greetings Pard; Not to put too fine a point on it, but the newbies should be aware that "tempering" is a POST quench, heat treating process to relieve internal stresses from casting/forging process. I feel you meant to say "...to get them quenched."

[fredj338]

That's pretty much where I'm at.

I'm also wondering when this powder coating fad will go away like moly coating everything did and
the big need to have your barrels cryo-treated.

The diff for me is moly coated the bore & thne you were pretty much stuck shooting moly coated. PC does NOT leave anything in the bore that I can find. So beats messy, smoky lubes for pistols. I dont shoot much cast in rifles but 45-70.

[fredj338]

I am/was under the impression heat treating bullets require 450-460 degrees for 45-60 minutes. I wonder if our normal PC temp/cook times are adequate. How to you check the hardness of the alloy under the PC?

I have tested them a week after water quenching out of the 400deg oven, they get about 3-4bhn bump. I file the nose of the bullet flat for testing.

[Froogal]

I water quench just to cool the bullets down quickly.

BINGO!! That is why I do it. I can then handle them easily at the end of a casting session.

[michael.birdsley]

will sizing the boolit negate the effects of water quenching? my understanding ( i’m not a metallurgist but, delt with heat treating parts some in machining of auto parts) is that quenching would help with hardening the surface of the boolit ? so if we take off any where from .001-.003 in the sizing process it would take the surface harden part off. or am I off base ?


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