.38 special wadcutter warning

[wilecoyote]

my interpretation, purely speculative:
_indentation on the brass is however a weakening of the metal_
I think the crack depends on the crimping, if done_
if present, it can occur along the final cylindrical part of the bullet
or immediately above, therefore not supported by the lead, and technically with a more accentuated angle_
in the case glad to be corrected by greater knowledge_

[Soundguy]

I tend to prefer dewd and other just plain wadcutters. never had a problem just loading those.

[Good Cheer]

Lyman #358395.


There's a really obvious break-over point where you have enough velocity to get it to pop open.
Obviously these loads did not have the WC seated deeply but rather seated out. In some tests I sized the skirt end of the boolits to easily slip into the chamber throats.

[Good Cheer]

.41 Mag snub nose. Accurate mold.

[Good Cheer]

Lyman #450229 with the nose machined out to a straight cylinder makes a nice boolit for HPWC's in double action .45 Colts. Guarantee it'll roll an armadillo and sound like you hit him with a boat paddle.

[45DUDE]

This is interesting. Three of the cases (which I had never loaded and fired prior) cracked the case mouth. Normally I can get at least 15 loads out of a case before it does this. Is the wadcutter brass more prone to cracking?

I load on a 550 Dillon-If the handle is too easy to pull or too hard to pull there is maybe a brass problem. Too easy could mean the brass is weak-too hard could mean there is trash in the case<22 hull>and if belled too much the case life is shorter. When I clean my brass I pour them on a flat surface and try to discard the iffy ones. I use my brass until it cracks. I use different brass for target shooting. A cracked piece of 38 brass is normal to me. Some guns have larger chambers and shorten brass life. I probably get 40 reloads with 38 brass.

[magnumuser]

its all in the lead alloy, i know speer hbwc must be really realy tough cookies because i made a mistake with alliant manuals from the 1990s and got confused on "target wadcutter" and "wadcutter" data.
those charts are FUN... use your magnum brass and just use the same column with special as min, and magnum as max.

[FergusonTO35]

Lyman and Lee wadcutters are your friend, super accurate and never a problem.

[6thtexas]

Thank you for the correction. I guess my memory is failing. Corbett did hunt tigers, rifle unknown to me. I was thinking of a preacher who hunted tiger with the Savage High Power. A bit of research found him to be the Methodist minister Harry Caldwell. And he was doing missionary work in China.

Thanks again for jogging my memory.

Kevin

Corbett's best known rifles are a 450/400 that IIRC wound up in Elmer Keith's collection and a .275 (7X57) that is now owned by Rigby. I once got to see and handle the latter. It was very well used. Rigby will build you an exact copy of it if your pockets are deep enough.

Caldwell did indeed kill a man-eating tiger with a .22 Savage Hi Power. Supposedly he did not even check the sights-took it out of the box, loaded it, and went hunting. I have often thought that God was truly with him.

Getting back on track, years ago I tried the HBWC seated backward. My experience was they stink much past knife range. Now within 50 yds. a solid base WC like the 358495 pushed reasonably fast is very effective. Even just at approx. 750fps from a 2" barrel they hit hard and cut a good full caliber hole with good penetration. Jim Cirillo and associates definitely proved that.

[Cane_man]

Corbett's best known rifles are a 450/400 that IIRC wound up in Elmer Keith's collection and a .275 (7X57) that is now owned by Rigby. I once got to see and handle the latter. It was very well used. Rigby will build you an exact copy of it if your pockets are deep enough.

Caldwell did indeed kill a man-eating tiger with a .22 Savage Hi Power. Supposedly he did not even check the sights-took it out of the box, loaded it, and went hunting. I have often thought that God was truly with him.

Getting back on track, years ago I tried the HBWC seated backward. My experience was they stink much past knife range. Now within 50 yds. a solid base WC like the 358495 pushed reasonably fast is very effective. Even just at approx. 750fps from a 2" barrel they hit hard and cut a good full caliber hole with good penetration. Jim Cirillo and associates definitely proved that.

This is what I use in my Ruger LCR .38 Special +P, 100gr DEWC hard cast going at 950 fps, excellent penetration, mild recoil

[Kosh75287]

For self defense/ home defense trying to reload a revolver with WC bullets is a very bad joke, under stress. Best to practice with SWCs or RN cast, especially with speed loaders, and use factory JSPs or JHPs for carry. No special killer bullets. No need to scare the snakes by beating the grass, here.

Loading SWCs under time pressure is no picnic, either. Missouri Bullets makes a 158 gr. RNFP that makes reloading MUCH easier, but still delivers good terminal effect. My friends who own .357 Lever guns report that they feed through their actions very nicely also.
I don't know the Brinnell hardness rating of the typical 148 gr. HBWC, but I would imagine that it is on the low side. If one wished to use them for the first 5-8 rounds out of a revolver and push them faster than 750-800 f/s, I would think the addition of a bit of tin and antimony when casting them might help them stay together better.

[magnumuser]

well if loading them backwards was unsafe and unsanitary why are companies doing it? precision delta and that other place have been for some time. And im seeing alot of online "gun magazines" advocate loading HBWC backwards as well.-

[shooting on a shoestring]

magnumuser, same reason cigarettes are for sale. Yes they are unsafe and unsanitary but companies still sell them because…….SOME people will buy them.

This country is still free enough that you can repeat the experiment yourself.

On one hand you have people saying they’ve shot hollow based wadcutters seated backwards and they did not get the expansion they had imagined or hoped to get and they’ve posted on the internet.

On the other hand you have people that have written “magazine articles” advocating it.

Hmmmmm???

How about you load some solid base wadcutters and also load some hollow based wadcutters seated backwards then shoot them into water jugs, ballistic gel, mud, wet paper or whatever test medium you can come up with and see what results you get?

Real first hand experience is way better than something written by someone else.
Prove to yourself which is best.

[6thtexas]

magnumuser, same reason cigarettes are for sale. Yes they are unsafe and unsanitary but companies still sell them because…….SOME people will buy them.

This country is still free enough that you can repeat the experiment yourself.

On one hand you have people saying they’ve shot hollow based wadcutters seated backwards and they did not get the expansion they had imagined or hoped to get and they’ve posted on the internet.

On the other hand you have people that have written “magazine articles” advocating it.

Hmmmmm???

How about you load some solid base wadcutters and also load some hollow based wadcutters seated backwards then shoot them into water jugs, ballistic gel, mud, wet paper or whatever test medium you can come up with and see what results you get?

Real first hand experience is way better than something written by someone else.
Prove to yourself which is best.

This. Some one might want to try HBWCs of different manufacture. Maybe there might be a difference. A test like this would be interesting.

Is there any documented use of backward HBWCs in real situations? I can't think of any agency that issues such ammunition

My problem with the HBWC loaded backwards was that they were not stable and started yawing very quickly. Penetration nose-on is better than a projectile flung sidewise. Belly to belly with one's adversary they may work great but so would a Benchmade Griptilian or Buck 110

[Soundguy]

I've never felt the need to 'hotrod' a wadcutter. And most hollow base stuff i fire is for old guns and you are bumping the skirt out to seal the bore.. again.. never felt the need to hotrod those either.

As for the gun blown up.. at least it was a DW.. not much loss.

[magnumuser]

magnumuser, same reason cigarettes are for sale. Yes they are unsafe and unsanitary but companies still sell them because…….SOME people will buy them.

This country is still free enough that you can repeat the experiment yourself.

On one hand you have people saying they’ve shot hollow based wadcutters seated backwards and they did not get the expansion they had imagined or hoped to get and they’ve posted on the internet.

On the other hand you have people that have written “magazine articles” advocating it.

Hmmmmm???

How about you load some solid base wadcutters and also load some hollow based wadcutters seated backwards then shoot them into water jugs, ballistic gel, mud, wet paper or whatever test medium you can come up with and see what results you get?

Real first hand experience is way better than something written by someone else.
Prove to yourself which is best.

actually,,,, its FUN.. the trick is to seat the HBWC about an 1/8" out of the case.. use DEWC data.. sure 6" groups at 20 yards isnt much to right home about but the funny thing is.. they still cut neat holes when they hit a root.

[Soundguy]

I like seating wadcutters about an 1/8 or 3/16 out on 38sw. Makes nice looking cartridges.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Well magnumuser, you are ahead of where I thought you were.
Yes! You’ve got it. It is FUN! That’s 99% of why I cast, load and shoot.

And I believe 6” groups at 25 yards is plenty workable for a defensive round.

[M-Tecs]

Some test results

https://www.activeresponsetraining.n...RabJxIUIH2wkVY

[magnumuser]

Well magnumuser, you are ahead of where I thought you were.
Yes! You’ve got it. It is FUN! That’s 99% of why I cast, load and shoot.

And I believe 6” groups at 25 yards is plenty workable for a defensive round.

Thats with the hollow base forward..

and they do just as much damage to a milk jug of water at that range as remington 125 sjhp 38 sp do.


and i can actually afford to shoot them, as i cant afford to purchase the remingtons IF i can find them. the remingtons last i checked were

.67 cents a round... soosh... only paid .43 cents per round when i bought some...