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Thread: Need help with choosing my first air rifle

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    GARD72977's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Air guns are more expensive than powder burners. $250 will not buy a quality air rifle

  2. #22
    Moderator Emeritus

    georgerkahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    South of the (Canada) border
    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
    I just took yet another new multi pump pneumatic out of the box and shot it. Like a springer, I didn't need anything else except pellets to shoot it. Unlike a springer it doesn't require a special hold to shoot accurately, doesn't have that weird double recoil that kills scopes, doesn't lose power over time due to spring fatigue, and has variable power so I can choose the power level I desire for each shot.

    -- is the new one another Crosman 362 as you mentioned in your earlier post (#17), or, another multi pump pneumatic? If so, might you share make/model?

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Sweetwater TX
    There is a relatively new multipump out there -- the Seneca Dragonfly -- but from all I read it is a bit of an airgun kit, needs lots of cleaning, break-in, adjusting and tightening.

  4. #24
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Lucerne Valley CA
    Quote Originally Posted by georgerkahn View Post
    I share your age, also being three-quarters of one century old! I have a bevy of springers -- both pistol and rifle size -- as well as a few PCP's. While I so much agree with dverna vis his suggestion to go "PCP" -- as much as I adore mine, there is quite an investment to enter the PCP genre. I live on SS Retirement and a small retirement from work -- so my means are of limit.
    A couple-three years ago I read a review or two on the SIG Sauer ASP20-2211 Gas-Piston Breakbarrel .22Air Rifle, with a Sig Sauer scope attached and was quite intrigued. A short time later, I saw this package advertised on sale -- and it became mine.
    While we share the same age, I'm probably in worse shape than most of our age -- I require two canes to get about -- but found this nitro piston air rifle NO problem to load, cock, and/or shoot. The 'scope is so great I even purchased another exact model for another air rifle I have. The ASP20-2211 is in your price range, too.
    If I were alookin', with your suggested criteria, that's what I would choose. A nice video vis the rifle is at https://buckshotsupply.com/products/...air-asp20-2211 , with a longer, but more detailed review at https://www.airgundepot.com/sig-sauer-asp20.html .
    The sig is no longer produced.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    There are a lot of nice quality air guns in your price range in both break barrel and PCP, perhaps not Olympic quality but very good non-the less.
    Check out Air Gun Depot and Pyramid Air.
    I guess it depends on what you want.
    A lot of people have champain tastes, but a beer budget.
    I am very happy with what I can get on my beer budget.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master

    alamogunr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    I didn't get into air guns until about 3 years ago. Knowing I didn't have a long time to enjoy them, I went with a Weihrauch HW95. That thing is a beast. I over did the break in and suffered because I didn't use the best form to cock it. My left arm was almost useless for a couple of months. I don't think I ever completely mastered the artillery hold.

    Fast forward, I got a PCP(Daystate Huntsman Revere). Since I'm now 81, I also acquired both a tank and a compressor. I don't drink but I do have a Champagne taste when I comes to guns. Since my wife passed away, I've decided to put powder burners on the back burner and concentrate on the air guns. I think I've even converted a couple of friends although I'll be charging their PCP's.

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    If it is for fun shooting, get a spring gun. They are a lot harder to shoot and more fun. For competition, whatever the rules allow. For hunting, probably a PCP because it is easier to make humane shots and lighter to carry.

    In terms of spring guns then anything from Weirauch, Diana or Air Arms are good. A second hand R1/HW80 or Diana 48/52 would give you a very versatile gun. TX200, HW77 or HW97 for targets. A HW95 or 99 are good as general purpose airguns. The HW30 is a bit under-powered for hunting unless you are close or going for head shots.

    If you go second hand with a quality spring gun you will probably get a much better deal than a cheap new gun.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2018
    PCP vs springers vs gasram and the likes?
    To me its like comparing apples to oranges to be honest.

    I can appreciate a springer hands down but as power output jump much past 25-30J they become downright unbearable to shoot in my opinion. That expanding spring, at that rate, is so violent it takes the fun right out of it - at least to me it does. That they "kill" scopes is no lie, and this for a good reason.

    Gasram then?
    Sure. I guess. Pity there though is that for the MOST part gasram air huffers are something you make yourself by modifying a springer. Indeed they produce more muzzle energy while being at least reasonably civilized in behavior.
    Mark here is that to punch paper a 15J springer will do just fine. A 30J gasram ditto.

    However.. (ya never saw this one coming huh? ROTF)

    PCPs are a game apart. Its that simple. Ill just put it blunt, they friggin amaze me still.

    Own a downright c*apload of them..and love to "hotrod" them into what they were not. Thus im rather partial to the entry level budget AND mid range hang tag ones. Simply as they provide room for playing around without breaking the bank and as hotrods many a time will run right over rigs double and three times the cost.

    Getting to understand pneumatics in turn.. takes a tad if you like the rest of us were raised on powder burners. It IS however fascinating. Really.

    Some of them tho are not budget or midrange.
    Just recently bought me the latest iteration FX Wildcat in 25cal with all the trims n fittings in a couple of bags next to it.

    Got me a way longer liner for it, a slug liner on 800mm.. still to be installed. Either there or on my Impacts i guess. Lovely piece of kit though and the only "mod" i could foresee is the replacement of the synthetic stock for a wooden one. Split there if laminate or walnut TBH.. could go either way i guess. Wood over laminate 7 days a week however...

    That being said the Wildcat Mk3 isnt the most expensive FX around by any measure while still a chunk of cash no doubt and thus you EXPECT it to deliver. And it does.


    The other end of the stick, which i arguably love even more, is the real "el cheapo" PCP pieces. As some of you are aware ive modded the Stormrider and its derivates.. Turned a CP-2 Co2 gun into a PCP...

    That CP-2 a tad peculiar looking maybe, but it showed qualitys to be the perfect "truck gun" in 22cal. Home made tank for it being on approx 300ccs.
    All them guns.. on the cheap. I guess. Hard hitting, for a "simple" unregged 22cal, accurate as you could ever wish..

    Are there ones to be found thats even cheaper?
    At our local NAPA (or..abouts..-ish) theres a brand name offered under Kayoba.

    ..and this thing runs like 135/ 165$. Whats struck me is... I didnt even fire a shot as i brought it in the door of the shop, just ripped this thing apart first thing aaaaand... I need to be blunt here...
    It is of better build Q than them Artemis/Snowpeak guns! Easy even.
    Parts within.. sharp tools has been used and plastic is a far cry from present anywhere really. Fit between the steel of it and the wood is press fit close. To the point where you have to use force to pry the steel innards out of the wood. Single shot then? Yep, like some of the Hatsans a single shot..exact same setup really.

    Thing is tho. Will it shoot? This is a 135/165$ gun right. A toy. Not to be taken serious.
    So will it shoot?

    You bet! That there is 9 shots worth at 30 meters (33yards) using JSB 4,52mm pills on 8,4 grains. Outdoors. Flyers are no doubt on me, so yes. It will shoot.
    Ok? So whats my reservation then?
    Due what is now clear as ice.. It will shoot the 4,52s but thats about it as the barrel is rather "large" for a 177"cal. So sorry to say anything LESS than those 4,52mm is just plain out.
    4,50mm and were talking scatter gun.

    In turn the trigger is about as awful as they come stock. Adjustable yes but.. an absolute joke for a trigger assy. To be improved upon tho..

    Working on the piece, and have been for a few days. So expect a post coming up on WHAT it is as you open the box and what it CAN be turned into with a little know how.
    Spoiler alert here is that altho it being a lowly .177"cal.. it can be made to deliver regardless. Of course keeping the rather minescule caliber in mind. As for heavier slug use i had to fab me an expander tool for the pills in case. Sure, theres Knock Outs to be had in 4,52 but these weigh in on a pointless 10 grains.. and we dont need that where were going..
    No Sir. Were talking 20 grains and up here. Yes. For a 177"cal.

    That being said?
    Gents i believe weve reached a point where weve never had PCPs offered at the rates they are that work as well as they after all DO.
    I recap.
    135/165$. Thats an INSANE amount of performance per dollar in my book!

    Gimme a break already, and this thing can be souped up to knock down critters within 100 yards with ease (tank on it is on just shy of 200ccs btw. To be compared to the Stormriders 100cc. Large difference.) Just take my word for this...
    But well get there. Post coming up shortly.

    So as you surely understand my vote goes PCP all the way baby.
    Mainly as a PCP can do it all. A springer or gasram can not.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Believe this needs to be brought to the table too, as it always is arrived on one way or another sooner or later...

    "PCPs just leak all the time".
    In short? No. This is false. However they DO contain o-rings to keep all that pressure in and in turn controlled as far as where it goes. So no argument there why i for one at least believe that...
    PCPs you IMO grow into. Uhu. I regard it as such that theres levels to PCPs.

    That the FX Impact (and now the Pantera..the offsprings of it and what not).. what most fail to realize before picking one up is that they are COMPLEX guns. For the novice especially so, and its FAR from alone being so. FXs that is.
    In contrast to both powder burners, springers and what have you a PCP of "higher level" is almost always NOT a mere rifle but a shooting PLATFORM. It is so adjustable that it take some reading up AND understanding on YOUR part to make it really fly. Make no mistake as far as this.

    To someone like me, as familiar with them as i am, i could care less.. but to most? Not so. This holds true for MOST high end PCP guns, far far far from FX only.

    The use of regulated PCPs today has in my opinion gone completely up the proverbial wall. Yes. A regulator will no doubt help keeping a PCP gun within its "sweetspot" for a larger number of shots but in all reality that is NOT the same as that non reg guns are pointless or at fault or just "old" n obsolete designs.
    Very very far from it actually.

    Fact is, theres SO many factors that come into play here... A non reg gun for instance can often be the smarter hunting tool. No matter if rodents, pests in general or "real" prey.
    Point being that a regulated gun can only regulate pressure DOWN which hands us that non reg guns can often times be tuned to higher levels of power with WAY less effort as they always run full system pressure.
    Usable to many as i sincerly doubt all shooter aim to go at it to compete, shoot PCPs mainly at or beyond 100m or similar.
    Sure.. you can appreciate a regulated gun regardless, thats not my point. My point is that theres plethora of non reg guns out there that these days get like zero love and this is simply uncalled for.
    In fact, id call it borderline stupid even.

    Yes. I for one thus believe that anyone into the market for an airgun both could and should look at THEIR needs before even taking a look at whats available.
    If the intent is backyard plinking coupled with pesting.. chances are youll get more for your dollar with the non reg gun. A regulator, and even two..and debated three now even, no doubt add to the parts list and thus cost.
    But also complexity.

    Yeah well. Recall that leaking o-ring? A non reg gun in its bare essentials is understandable to the average DIY guy. In turn tutorials on how to work on YOUR specific gun is most likely to be found on say Youtube or similar.
    O-rings.. let it be known that o-rings on 70 or 90 NBR are DIRT cheap why if you get familiar with YOUR PCP brings that youll keep that thing running for years at end on nickel n dimes even IF leaks develop. Literally.

    Springs take a set. Gasrams sure develop leaks too..

    What im saying is that theres no magic to PCP guns and the non reg ones are about as basic as they get. Theres a trigger group, a sliding steel weight run by a larger spring (the hammer) then the tube, the valve.. a transfer port..and finally a barrel... and sure enough them carries o-rings.
    So yeah.
    I put forth gents that any man that aint all thumbs can sure service his simple build PCP gun using regular hand tools and a bit of know how. It is NOT rocket science.

    "Yeah! But a non reg gun isnt accurate enough!"
    Excuse me?

    True is that non reg gun will have whats known as a "bell curve" to the power and thereby speeds. But mark, so will a powder burner and SDs and ES will show it. Its not the final call though is it?
    Regardless whats of sole importance is what happens on target. Agree on that?

    Yeah well.
    "Not accurate enough".

    Tell that to the non reg 22cal Hatsan Nova that fired the 10 shots of its magazine @ just a tad under 30m into that there in the picture.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check