.303 British 180 gr cast - Powder Options?

[Hanzy4200]

I was finally able to locate a Lyman 314299 mold last month. I have been loading them over various charges of Unique with mixed results. My issue is this. The Lyman Manual only lists 4-5 powders for this bullet, non of which I have aside from Unique. I really want to get up above gallery load velocities. Do any of you have experience, or other manuals to reference? I have heard tell that H380 can be used, but have seen no credible data. I have probably 20+ assorted powders in my case. Any help appreciated.

[wesson357]

I use red dot and accurate 5744 in everything.

[Kraschenbirn]

H4895 with the Lee 312-185 works pretty good in my Long Branch #4 Mk 1.

Bill

[Milky Duck]

AR2206 or the hodgdon equivilent is a go to for reduced loads..... pretty much any starting load for a 180grn jacketed projectile will be good starting point.... have a look at what youve got, powder wise,and see what data you can find thats close ,and reduce carefully from there.

[Thumbcocker]

4198 works for me.

[Bigslug]

Look to the starting loads for similar weight bullets in the .30-40 Krag and 7.62x54R - very similar rounds. 7.65 Argentine/Belgian - also very close.

Also compare the powders that cross over from the .303 to the .308 with the 311299 bullet; similar size and volume rounds - the starting loads are nearly identical. The starting loads for the other listed .308 powders might be an option for you.

If you're using the 314299 or 316299, your bullet weight is probably something just above 200 grains, depending on alloy. The British MK1 through MK6 loads were a 215 grain bullet at 2000fps, which I've duplicated with 5744. Given that the 174 grain/2440 fps MK7 load was adopted well prior to WWI, your sights are likely calibrated for that. I've found that a 300 yard sight setting (or the big battle sight aperture on a No.4) works pretty well to get you on at 100 yards with the bigger, slower bullet.

[Texas by God]

3031 for the 2000 fps loads is worth a try.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[405grain]

I don't have a 303, but the 7.65x53 has similar case capacity and uses the same bullets. As others have noted; your cast bullet will weigh around 200 grains, not 180. I've found best accuracy with the 311299 (powder coated to size at .3125") with a 24.0 grain charge of Shooters World Buffalo Rifle, which is around 1900 fps with my 29" barrel. This powder is almost the same as 5744. My recommendation is that you try 5744, and that you work up from published starting loads with this bullet/powder combination. (Lyman #4 cast handbook lists 25.0 grains as max., so my load is close to the top. You should start lower and work up.)

[P Flados]

I looked up the 314299 and it is advertised as a 200 gr mold, but the thread title asks about a 180 gr bullet.

No specific gun (with barrel length), pressure range (near max, "not too hot", best velocity but mild pressure, etc), bullet lube, or desired COAL were given.

My Quickload does not have the 314299, but it does have the similar 311299. Now Quickload runs are not "proven load data" but they can give you a good idea what to expect as you work up a load.

I would say that 1800 fps might meet the "above gallery" velocity, but the potential for 2000 fps and up is closer to a serious round for a typical 25" gun. The list of available powders that should be able to exceed 2000 fps is pretty long (scroll down in the window below to see them all). I would also note that any load with less than say 85% fill is "iffy" unless the powder is known to be Ok for reduced loads.

Cartridge          : .303 British (SAAMI)
Bullet             : 202, LYM LRN GC 311299 (Diameter manually changed to 0.314")
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.075 inch = 78.11 mm (Default that popped up)
Barrel Length      : 25.0 inch = 635.0 mm

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 *T               95.5     46.5     3.01    2451    99.5    42875    7884   1.407  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T            99.6     45.0     2.92    2422    98.4    42875    7710   1.410  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                      100.5     46.6     3.02    2419    98.3    42875    7686   1.438  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                     100.1     48.0     3.11    2411    96.3    42875    7779   1.418  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP *C                        99.8     45.8     2.97    2409    98.1    42875    7589   1.423  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C*T                96.7     45.9     2.97    2406    97.9    42875    7656   1.431  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        94.5     46.4     3.01    2405    95.4    42875    7698   1.422  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      94.5     46.4     3.01    2405    95.4    42875    7698   1.422  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C                   89.9     45.5     2.95    2399    98.2    42875    7491   1.423  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon LVR                         96.7     44.9     2.91    2394    97.5    42875    7472   1.423  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game                    89.6     44.3     2.87    2385    99.0    42875    7233   1.427  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old                       92.3     43.3     2.81    2374    99.6    42875    7136   1.455  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                            88.5     41.1     2.66    2372    99.1    42875    7174   1.444  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder TS 15.5 *C *T       94.3     41.9     2.71    2371   100.0    42875    6909   1.441  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2                       84.9     43.0     2.79    2370    99.7    42875    7090   1.444  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                102.0     45.8     2.97    2370    99.3    42009    7080   1.434  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 *C                  96.6     45.8     2.96    2369    97.9    42875    7151   1.429  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 *C                        98.6     47.3     3.06    2367    92.6    42875    7495   1.423  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C                       89.8     41.7     2.70    2364    99.1    42875    7100   1.445  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748                      82.1     41.0     2.66    2362    99.9    42875    6808   1.437  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C               89.2     41.4     2.68    2362    98.7    42875    7113   1.445  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                        91.1     43.2     2.80    2356    97.7    42875    7181   1.449  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064                       92.4     41.9     2.72    2356   100.0    42875    6709   1.482  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031                            88.9     38.6     2.50    2352   100.0    42875    6418   1.443  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 6,5 StaBall *T*C        100.0     50.0     3.24    2351    98.5    42875    7104   1.424  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World SW4350               98.4     45.2     2.93    2351    95.6    42875    7252   1.451  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Match Rifle          87.1     41.7     2.70    2349   100.0    42875    6667   1.461  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520                       85.1     41.7     2.70    2349   100.0    42875    6667   1.461  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar                   84.5     41.9     2.71    2348    99.0    42875    6957   1.441  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320                            91.0     41.5     2.69    2347    99.0    42875    6865   1.427  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895                       85.5     39.7     2.57    2345    99.4    42875    6883   1.449  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 *T                   100.6     45.7     2.96    2340    94.3    42875    7118   1.433  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350                            98.7     45.6     2.95    2339    94.5    42875    7110   1.433  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495                       87.1     39.5     2.56    2338   100.0    42875    6427   1.492  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26 *C              102.0     50.9     3.30    2335    94.7    34692    8487   1.543
Alliant Reloder-19 *C              102.0     47.3     3.07    2334    91.8    39900    7557   1.466
Shooters World Long Rifle           96.6     43.9     2.84    2332    96.8    42875    7014   1.454  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Precision            90.0     40.7     2.63    2330    99.7    42875    6681   1.459  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 *C                  98.7     43.2     2.80    2327    99.9    42875    6616   1.449  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 *C                  88.8     41.6     2.70    2325   100.0    42875    6548   1.452  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                           102.0     45.3     2.94    2323    97.3    38442    7290   1.501
Hodgdon VARGET *T                   91.0     40.8     2.65    2322    98.5    42875    6777   1.440  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C                  82.4     38.5     2.49    2321    99.7    42875    6592   1.448  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 *C                        86.4     39.4     2.56    2319   100.0    42875    6395   1.456  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335                        77.7     39.4     2.55    2318   100.0    42875    6390   1.449  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C                        87.0     39.5     2.56    2317    99.7    42875    6616   1.466  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064                            91.6     40.2     2.60    2317    98.7    42875    6663   1.446  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC                        92.0     43.3     2.81    2316    94.5    42875    6967   1.453  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C                      83.9     42.0     2.72    2316    96.9    42875    6852   1.449  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780             102.0     49.9     3.23    2315    91.7    40839    7269   1.456
IMR 4451 Enduron *C*T               93.1     42.7     2.77    2314    95.0    42875    6902   1.441  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460                       80.9     40.4     2.62    2313    99.9    42875    6455   1.472  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp *C *T               84.5     37.9     2.46    2312   100.0    42875    5920   1.452  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR                        83.9     38.9     2.52    2312    99.7    42875    6503   1.449  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C                       102.0     49.4     3.20    2311    91.5    35360    8096   1.535
Accurate 2230                       80.6     40.5     2.62    2306    99.4    42875    6484   1.463  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322                        82.0     36.9     2.39    2306   100.0    42875    6144   1.447  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 *C                  94.7     39.9     2.58    2304   100.0    42875    6030   1.461  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200                       83.7     39.5     2.56    2303    97.8    42875    6631   1.448  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World AR Plus              79.6     39.6     2.57    2301    99.9    42875    6334   1.468  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 *C                  88.4     40.2     2.61    2299   100.0    42875    6157   1.454  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator *C             81.4     40.3     2.61    2298    98.9    42875    6532   1.454  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4166 Enduron *C*T               91.5     40.7     2.64    2285    95.1    42875    6613   1.450  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12                  81.9     38.8     2.51    2283   100.0    42875    6010   1.454  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Tactical Rifle       78.7     38.9     2.52    2281    99.5    42875    6251   1.456  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                       102.0     48.6     3.15    2276    87.0    36994    7607   1.513
Vihtavuori N555 *C*T               102.0     46.4     3.01    2275    96.2    32885    7642   1.596
Accurate 2700                       92.0     44.5     2.89    2274    94.1    42875    6547   1.461  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark                   82.4     37.7     2.44    2271    99.8    42875    6136   1.457  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x *C              79.3     34.7     2.25    2262   100.0    42875    5720   1.473  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T                102.0     47.9     3.10    2262    87.6    38371    7136   1.497
Accurate 2015                       82.2     36.5     2.37    2262   100.0    42875    5723   1.479  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C                 102.0     48.4     3.13    2255    85.7    34453    7705   1.560
Norma 200 *C                        76.3     34.6     2.24    2246   100.0    42875    5587   1.491  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C              102.0     47.9     3.10    2246    88.7    33767    7608   1.574
Hodgdon CFE BLK *C                  75.1     37.0     2.40    2244    99.6    42875    5963   1.460  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron *C*T              102.0     46.1     2.98    2242    88.5    38503    6875   1.503
Vihtavuori N133 *C                  87.0     37.0     2.40    2239   100.0    42875    5523   1.463  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680                       68.3     33.1     2.14    2225   100.0    42875    5482   1.462  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 *C                  81.6     35.4     2.29    2222   100.0    42875    5409   1.474  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198                       75.4     32.9     2.13    2216   100.0    42875    5415   1.457  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T           102.0     46.3     3.00    2215    96.3    31393    7421   1.622
IMR 4198                            77.9     32.4     2.10    2215   100.0    42875    5238   1.458  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder TS 11 *C *T         75.3     33.6     2.18    2213   100.0    42875    5256   1.468  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7                   73.9     33.2     2.15    2211   100.0    42875    5312   1.479  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                    102.0     50.3     3.26    2210    82.3    32744    7545   1.599
Shooters World Buffalo Rifle        65.3     28.3     1.84    2187   100.0    42875    5187   1.457  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744                       63.9     28.3     1.84    2187   100.0    42875    5187   1.457  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     102.0     51.6     3.34    2176    87.4    32748    7284   1.602
Shooters World Blackout             62.1     30.1     1.95    2174   100.0    42875    5007   1.464  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR                     102.0     46.8     3.03    2174    86.7    30889    7322   1.641
Accurate 3100                      102.0     47.3     3.07    2169    92.0    30641    7021   1.663
Vihtavuori N120 *C                  76.1     32.2     2.09    2162   100.0    42875    4846   1.490  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227                       70.3     29.8     1.93    2160   100.0    42875    4854   1.475  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 *T                   102.0     46.0     2.98    2159    84.9    33481    6757   1.593
Vihtavuori N125 *C                  71.5     30.9     2.00    2155   100.0    42875    4812   1.490  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227                            69.8     29.6     1.92    2153   100.0    42875    4820   1.473  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 *C                 102.0     46.8     3.03    2139    88.7    31855    6644   1.629
IMR 7828                           102.0     46.0     2.98    2122    82.7    30509    6993   1.655
Alliant Reloder-25 *C              102.0     47.1     3.05    2096    88.2    27822    7272   1.723
Vihtavuori N565 *C*T               102.0     48.6     3.15    2073    81.1    26520    7090   1.763
IMR 7977 Enduron *C*T              102.0     46.8     3.03    2046    75.1    32959    5807   1.631
Alliant 2400                        54.6     24.1     1.56    2041   100.0    42875    4115   1.509  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Enforcer                    54.0     25.6     1.66    2031   100.0    42875    4080   1.522  ! Near Maximum !

[Hanzy4200]

My apologies. You are all correct, it is a 200 gr. I glanced at the wrong tub of .30 cal bullets.

[Hanzy4200]

I have quite a few of the powders listed. H335, CFE223, CFE Black, 4064, Varget, TAC, ect. Any of these stand out as a good candidate?

[P Flados]

Here is a shorter list with H380 (from post 1) plus powders in post # 11. I also poked at jacketed load data at https://shootersreference.com/reload...a/303-british/. The heaviest bullets were 174 and 180 gr, but the data helps to support if a powder is likely to be ok down at the charges predicted by Quickload.

H335, Tac & CFE Blk all look on the low side for percent fill. H335 and Tac do have recommended jacketed loads with lower percent fills. I did not see any for CFE Blk.

I have used a lot of WC 844 (milsurp version of H335) in some odd applications and it has never failed to do at least decent and in a couple of cases it has done excellent. H335 seems to be available and not overpriced. With powder cost and powder required per load both being good, this will probably be one of your lowest cost options if you plan to shoot a bunch. I would try it if this was my gun (but then again I have a lot - several 8# jugs ).

Both 4064 powders are "old style" traditional extruded powders (a good thing for your use). If this is IMR 4064, understand that replacement could be difficult. If this is Accurate 4064, it looks to be available and this is a plus for considering it.

H380 and CFE223 are ball powders and show decent percent fills. They have good availability and do not seem as overpriced as some. I see no reason not to try these.

Varget seems to be available but the price premium is pretty steep.

What ever you try, you will need to work up your loads. I did a Quickload comparison and it looks to me like starting loads should probably be a couple of grains below the starting loads shown for a 180 or 174. If your COAL is much shorter than shown, consider a slightly lower starting load.

Cartridge          : .303 British (SAAMI)
Bullet             : ?? .308, 202, LYM LRN GC 311299
Useable Case Capaci: 50.350 grain H2O = 3.269 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.075 inch = 78.11 mm
Barrel Length      : 25.0 inch = 635.0 mm

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hodgdon CFE223 *C                   89.9     45.5     2.95    2399    98.2    42875    7491   1.423  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                        91.1     43.2     2.80    2356    97.7    42875    7181   1.449  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064                       92.4     41.9     2.72    2356   100.0    42875    6709   1.482  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET *T                   91.0     40.8     2.65    2322    98.5    42875    6777   1.440  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335                        77.7     39.4     2.55    2319   100.0    42875    6390   1.449  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064                            91.6     40.2     2.60    2317    98.7    42875    6663   1.446  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C                      83.9     42.0     2.72    2316    96.9    42875    6852   1.449  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE BLK *C                  75.1     37.0     2.40    2244    99.6    42875    5963   1.460  ! Near Maximum !

[Leadmad]

4198 works for me.

Same here have used the 314299 in a variety of .30 calibres and its a great projectile 21-25 grains of 2207 / 4198 with a light filler and 1650 to 1920 fps

[Whole Bunches]

24gr IMR4198, 27gr AA2200, 30.5gr IMR4895, no fillers.

[Gobeyond]

I’ve used Varget in old antique rifles. A light cautious load might be 27.5 grs and room to work up. I was given it by experienced old gun shooters on forums. Maybe 30 for your gun. What’s the case capacity of 303? It’s a strong gun. About a 1.9 dipper. It’s not in my manuals. In fact a 303 British was the reformed case. I think we’ve got something.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I use 5744 in all my Cast Boolits Rifle Loads. It works so well that I don't need to look Elsewhere. Not one to chase loads all over looking for the absolute best one hole load when this one powder delivers "Acceptable Accuracy" in all of my Cast Boolit Shooters. Those include .30-30,.308,.30-06,.303,.35-303,.45-70. Then All Mid Range Pistol loads .40 S&W,.45 ACP .44 Spec/.44 MR Mags are done with W231/HP-38, .44 Magnum and .410 Shotguns get H110/W296. .30 Cal. jacketed loads all revolve around IMR4895, and all .223's get W748/BL-C2... All of the loads for these cartridges have been standardized long ago, so there is no need to experiment. I just load so I can go shoot something. IE: Find a Load, Go Shoot Something with it!

Thus I ended up with several Big Jugs of powders instead of 40 different 1 lb bottles of stuff I'll never use. I have IMR 3031 and a couple of others from 40+ years ago. I also have some Unique and 2400 I use the Unique in Slug loads for Shot Shells.

One thing you have got to consider,,,, I mean, "Should be Considering" is "What are your expectations for your rifle?" and next, "Can you actually shoot that well?" It is pointless to have a one hole rifle if the best you can shoot it is 2-3".
Instead of chasing the "Golden BB", you should be shooting more to increase your shooting skill. Then after you can shoot Sub MOA from the Standing Position you can refine your loads down to one hole.

Air Rifles work good for practice!

My .02

Randy

[ukrifleman]

Rel 7 is my preferred powder for cast loads, as I find it burns much cleaner than 5744.
ukrifleman

[leadhead]

16.0 - 19.0 grains of 2400. I use 2400 in most all my military rifles except the 6.5 Swede, then
it's 14.0 grains.

[Larry Gibson]

Either flavor of 4895 is my go to powder for the 314299 bullet in my 303s. I use a Dacron filler also.

[15meter]

Some light reading here:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...Rifles-Article

And more if your rifle is a smellie:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...Rifles-Article