How merciful is God?

[Lloyd Smale]

Where exactly did those 2 key words "through him" come from? My guess would be the Bible

Obliviously you were embarrassed during a Friday bible study that you were ill prepared to defend your position, so now you have taken to criticizing the entire New Testament as being fraudulent to make yourself feel better


Not sure how anyone could make that statement with a serious face.
Who exactly wrote all that Old Testament Scripture that Jesus had "memorized" and quoted constantly? That would be "men" by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit... the same as the New Testament.



This explains a lot regarding your disdain for the bible.
If I am not mistaking, it was the Catholic church that burned folks at the stake for owning, reading or memorizing the bible back in the day.

Just to be clear... What part of the New Testament Bible do you think is legitimate scripture?

and you act like a fine Christian learn that in your book by the way if God wrote it how do you feel about it being changed BY MAN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Bible

[Alabama358]

and you act like a fine Christian learn that in your book by the way if God wrote it how do you feel about it being changed BY MAN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Bible

I just had an image of a fellow citing Wikipedia as his source of knowledge at a Friday evening bible study and being rebuked by someone well studied in scripture.
Heck... an arrogant fella might stay butt-hurt for quite a long period of time following an episode like that.

[.429&H110]

The Apostles had no paper.
The codexes are written in Greek on parchment or linen
The Bible was old before monks were new.

I am about as far from a Lutheran belief, as I am from a Calvinist belief.
I grew up on the north shore of Boston, half my friends went to the Irish Catholic church, half my friends went to the Italian Catholic church while I went to the Puritan Calvinist Congregational church. We were none of us Christian, we were wild. I mean evil.

The movie Jesus Revolution tells the 60's story pretty well from my point of view, I saw the Light.
A very bright Light, a changing healing Light, I once was lost.
I had to make sure that what I had found (or found me) was really real.
The gathering of knowledge is the asking of many questions.
If you want to find out, you have to go and look.
I think my faith is real, but I will be sure to ask Him when I see Him.
Yup, I am a Yankee. We don't usually go about believing things on faith.

I do not believe in religion, I believe in relationship.
The church that comes closest to my faith, as I understand it,
is an independent Baptist church.
They believe the promises in the Book.
So do I.

I believe the only thing that can keep America from splitting into several oligarchies is a return to the faith of our fathers. Revival. Fads come and go and the progressive communists have had their turn. When we are dead and gone, it will be up to the millenials to say what country they want to live in. There will be a solid core of Christians to help them to remember the Book. The millenials will understand better when they have kids of their own. We just had an amazing vacation bible school, better than ever.

Meanwhile we have old folks on morphine driving themselves to the doctor. We have old folks walking their dogs, and the dogs lead them back home. We have old folks that used to go to church, but now they don't know anybody there. We have old folks in AZ with their grandkids in OH. Yesterday I peeled an old lady off the hot concrete in front of Fry's as the crowd hurried by, no harm done, the manager bandaged her knee.

It's not a church thing: it is a relationship with our Lord, and how we are going to serve him today.

Genesis says He made us male or female, though some do doubt it.

[Lloyd Smale]

I just had an image of a fellow citing Wikipedia as his source of knowledge at a Friday evening bible study and being rebuked by someone well studied in scripture.
Heck... an arrogant fella might stay butt-hurt for quite a long period of time following an episode like that.

well studied in scipture? so that means he has HIS opinion and like anyone else its just an opinion. Ill go back to that if God wrote it he wouldnt leave room for some bible study group to decide what he meant. He would know doubt tell us exactly what he meant. He would have also told his son to prepare us for its coming. God is perfect. He makes no mistakes or would have any problem writing a book in a way ALL men would know exactly what he meant.

your bible study just proves my point as does the fact theres over a 100 different Christian faiths that think there right and you and i are wrong. Is Jesus not one with God. why didnt he know?? As the son of God isnt he to perfect and wouldnt he want us all to know the truth? or does he reserve that for you or your buddy or a couple old ladies at bible study. but you reveling in someone being embarrassed at bible study is just wrong in so many ways

I would NEVER claim that i have the hole book figured out and my opinion is the right one. That right there would be a mortal sin. Your personal attacks roll of me like water. It is the best example i can give today of why God didnt right it. he certainly didnt intend for you to sin based on his word. Jesus sure wouldnt want anyone to get as you say "but hurt" over his fathers wishes.

your example and attacks prove it doesnt take a real Christian to read the bible and memorizing that book sure doesnt make you a Christian and winning an argument at bible study doesnt make you a better Christian either. Believing in Jesus Christ and Living your life as close to the way Jesus wants us too is how you get to heaven. You sure as hell dont get there by embarrassing someone at bible study.

Seems you think you can tell me im not a good Christian because i havent memorized a book which by the way ive read cover to cover. didnt Jesus say its Gods job to judge. Instead of spending hours in bible study maybe you should spend that time actually being a Christian instead of trying to find hidden messages in it. Id sure like to see you get to heaven. im out of this one now so ill let you have the last sin. this whole thread shows that just like i said its a book and a book thats just as responsible for tearing Christians apart as it is bring them together. ill end it with this. here is good example of someone thinking they had it figured out and why God wouldnt have left it to mortal men
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...f_Adolf_Hitler he is only one of many that have justified killing using the bible

i dont dislike the bible. its the greatest history book ever written and without it Jesus's life on earth would have forgotten over the years. but thats what it is. A history book that is a copulation of first had accounts from people that lived then. not some idol that is worshipped by some. God is holy not a book. God didnt write it man did. God didnt claim it was holy man did. God didnt even mention it and neither did his son.

[Alabama358]

The Apostles had no paper.
The codexes are written in Greek on parchment or linen
The Bible was old before monks were new.

I am about as far from a Lutheran belief, as I am from a Calvinist belief.
I grew up on the north shore of Boston, half my friends went to the Irish Catholic church, half my friends went to the Italian Catholic church while I went to the Puritan Calvinist Congregational church. We were none of us Christian, we were wild. I mean evil.

The movie Jesus Revolution tells the 60's story pretty well from my point of view, I saw the Light.
A very bright Light, a changing healing Light, I once was lost.
I had to make sure that what I had found (or found me) was really real.
The gathering of knowledge is the asking of many questions.
If you want to find out, you have to go and look.
I think my faith is real, but I will be sure to ask Him when I see Him.
Yup, I am a Yankee. We don't usually go about believing things on faith.

I do not believe in religion, I believe in relationship.
The church that comes closest to my faith, as I understand it,
is an independent Baptist church.
They believe the promises in the Book.
So do I.

I believe the only thing that can keep America from splitting into several oligarchies is a return to the faith of our fathers. Revival. Fads come and go and the progressive communists have had their turn. When we are dead and gone, it will be up to the millenials to say what country they want to live in. There will be a solid core of Christians to help them to remember the Book. The millenials will understand better when they have kids of their own. We just had an amazing vacation bible school, better than ever.

Meanwhile we have old folks on morphine driving themselves to the doctor. We have old folks walking their dogs, and the dogs lead them back home. We have old folks that used to go to church, but now they don't know anybody there. We have old folks in AZ with their grandkids in OH. Yesterday I peeled an old lady off the hot concrete in front of Fry's as the crowd hurried by, no harm done, the manager bandaged her knee.

It's not a church thing: it is a relationship with our Lord, and how we are going to serve him today.

Genesis says He made us male or female, though some do doubt it.

Nice Post .429

[BLAHUT]

i dont believe you need a bible either. for most of history since the birth of Jesus normar people didnt have bibles or access to them. did none of them go to heaven. the jewish people worship the same God we do but dont use the new testament. does that mean none of them can go to heaven? i think you said something very correct though the bible is a guide or instruction book. I dont believe it was meant to be used like some do. their whole religion consists of studying the bible. obsessed with finding hidden meanings in it, twisting scripture to fit there agenda. worse of all using it as a tool to impress others by memorizing it.

because of people like that the bible has caused more fights and arguments and even wars the any other book in history. its an instruction manual and ill catch flack for this. i dont believe it was wrote by God. if so why didnt the son of God, Jesus, didnt tell us all it wouldbe given to us by his father. He is one with God and would have surely known. it was wrote by catholic munks and thats why it can be confusing. i would think if God wrote it he wouldnt have left room for man to debate HIS words. i think its a useful tool. kind of like a repair manual. if i want to know what oil to use in my ram i can look it up. but i dont waist my time finding out what the chemical composition of it is or where it was refined or where the crude came from. my time is much better spent changing the oil. God wont test you on bible knowledge at the pearly gates but he might just ask you why you wasted so much time that could have been used to help others memorizing a book.

think about the FACT that disagreeing on scipture meaning is responsible for splitting christians into over a hundred different churches with more every year even today and how that has weakened christianity. i know people that detest other faiths more then they detest atheists. all do to egotistical beliefs that they understand the real meanings in the bible and the rest of us are wrong

GOD gave every man/woman, the ability to chose, believe, do not believe, use your gift of choice as you see fit..... Only Yours's to choose...
Choose wisely.... Do not push others to your choice.... If needed, lead by example...

[Gobeyond]

Jesus is the way, the truth and the light, just as it is in the Bible. He gave it to us and you can see what man has done with it. Same with creation. But you can’t blame God. He is still there to follow- the perfect way. But why don’t we all think so? Some people are right in studying it. Some people interpret it well, but we all have our weaknesses. The problem is when you exclude everyone else from being right. We are all the body of Christ, every denomination or non denomination that is not a cult and not preaching heresy. But the truth is follow Jesus. And get to fellow shipping with and forgiving the church and putting your Bible into practice. Let God sanctify you and purify you personally.

I like my church, I have a part in it am working with it. We are following Christ and I get fed there. Not perfect though. The Bible says don’t forsake the meeting of the saints. A Bible study is probably good enough. That’s how churches get started. But see what I mean…if we all pick and choose what we want to do and we are lacking something then what is God going to do. Let you prove you love another way?

He is not coming before the second coming, but He will snatch some away to heaven. In the twinkling of an eye. If we are to be comforted by these words we have to think we are going. It’s a real thing the rapture in the Bible which has many more comforting sayings in it.

But whose going? I have tried to raise the bar a little bit. I have tried to define what we think average to special. God is God and we are not. Who wants to go? Get on it.

[Alabama358]

well studied in scipture? so that means he has HIS opinion and like anyone else its just an opinion. Ill go back to that if God wrote it he wouldnt leave room for some bible study group to decide what he meant. He would know doubt tell us exactly what he meant. He would have also told his son to prepare us for its coming. God is perfect. He makes no mistakes or would have any problem writing a book in a way ALL men would know exactly what he meant.

your bible study just proves my point as does the fact theres over a 100 different Christian faiths that think there right and you and i are wrong. Is Jesus not one with God. why didnt he know?? As the son of God isnt he to perfect and wouldnt he want us all to know the truth? or does he reserve that for you or your buddy or a couple old ladies at bible study. but you reveling in someone being embarrassed at bible study is just wrong in so many ways

I would NEVER claim that i have the hole book figured out and my opinion is the right one. That right there would be a mortal sin. Your personal attacks roll of me like water. It is the best example i can give today of why God didnt right it. he certainly didnt intend for you to sin based on his word. Jesus sure wouldnt want anyone to get as you say "but hurt" over his fathers wishes.

your example and attacks prove it doesnt take a real Christian to read the bible and memorizing that book sure doesnt make you a Christian and winning an argument at bible study doesnt make you a better Christian either. Believing in Jesus Christ and Living your life as close to the way Jesus wants us too is how you get to heaven. You sure as hell dont get there by embarrassing someone at bible study.

Seems you think you can tell me im not a good Christian because i havent memorized a book which by the way ive read cover to cover. didnt Jesus say its Gods job to judge. Instead of spending hours in bible study maybe you should spend that time actually being a Christian instead of trying to find hidden messages in it. Id sure like to see you get to heaven. im out of this one now so ill let you have the last sin. this whole thread shows that just like i said its a book and a book thats just as responsible for tearing Christians apart as it is bring them together. ill end it with this. here is good example of someone thinking they had it figured out and why God wouldnt have left it to mortal men
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...f_Adolf_Hitler he is only one of many that have justified killing using the bible

i dont dislike the bible. its the greatest history book ever written and without it Jesus's life on earth would have forgotten over the years. but thats what it is. A history book that is a copulation of first had accounts from people that lived then. not some idol that is worshipped by some. God is holy not a book. God didnt write it man did. God didnt claim it was holy man did. God didnt even mention it and neither did his son.

Lloyd,
My rebuke was against your post and the content therein.
It was not an attack on you personally... I don't even know you.

When you write such foolish dribble regarding scripture and faith backed up with a link to Wikipedia, you should expect a strong reproof

There is a potential of 100s maybe 1000s of folks reading these post and if some are struggling with life, faith etc. they might just take what you said and join "the bible is a fraud and written by man club" simply because it is the easy way out... and once you start that that road it is a rough trip home, and some never do make it home.

Proverbs 18:21
21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

[Lloyd Smale]

never once bad mouthed God Or Jesus Christ. Matter of fact i worship them. what i dont do is worship a book. if you want to pin your chances of salvation memorizing a history book thats your call. people dont need to find salvation and peace in that book they need to find it in God. I did. Like ive said the bible is as responsible for evil over the years as it has been for salvation. weve only had access to it for maybe 700 years and alot of those years only if you were rich or at least literate. funny thing is christains were probably more devote before it was available. in those years after anyone could get a copy how many wars were started and still are over it. i push no one to agree with me. seems some others here do though

[jonp]

How strong is your faith?

[.429&H110]

There, that is a good way to put it, we can agree:
I don't worship a book, either.

Or anybody, anything else of this fallen world.

A Moslem would like to kill you for burning a Quran
but that's just a book, too.
I would guess there are millions of Gideon's Bibles in the dump
freely given and freely tossed. Seeds sown.
I have a dozen leftover tiny Gideon New Testaments in tiny print
(needs a child's eyes or a magnifying glass)
leftover from the recent party, free to a good home.
God's Love Letter to His Children.
His free gift of an Owner's Manual to our bodies.
His free gift because He is merciful and wants us to know Him.
Or it's just bound paper. Our choice.

"What is truth?" said Pilate as he walked away.

[Lloyd Smale]

How strong is your faith?

that is the real question. that is what is DEMANDED by God.

[Good Cheer]

It would seem that even those who would throw away Jesus telling them to learn the parable of the fig tree could appreciate the wisdom of Proverbs.

[Bigslug]

Quote Originally Posted by snowwolfe View Post
I have always thought as God as being vindictive and to some extent, mean. He set the rules a long time ago and it is his way or the highway (so to speak). I fail to see what, if any compassion he has for the humans he put on this earth.

Good morning snowwolfe.
What I've gotten so far from studying is that we get to come here to decide whether to go with our father or go with the rebellion. If somebody gets straightened out then there's a place for him and there's the mercy, the love, the compassion.
We're attending daily classes on what the rebellion is good for.
If somebody wants rebellion, just wants it their way, then there's the road.
So yeah, my understanding of the matter is that it's His way or the highway.

A couple good posts there.

The OP mentions a couple times his questions about mercy/salvation for the mentally ill who a less than able to play God's games. What I would submit is that God MADE the mentally ill who are less than able to play his games, as well as a great deal of other "human-wreckage-from-birth-or-early-childhood".

Yes, you can throw out a lot of "moves in mysterious ways" or "done to test us", which brings us to snowwolfe's notion of a vindictive/malicious entity either pulling strings for his own kinky satisfaction; perhaps an indifferent one who got bored with us and cut us adrift. Mercy, therefore, is not something I'd expect much of. If that entity is indeed out there, it is worthy of Good Cheer's "rebellion"

[Good Cheer]

Quote Originally Posted by snowwolfe View Post
I have always thought as God as being vindictive and to some extent, mean. He set the rules a long time ago and it is his way or the highway (so to speak). I fail to see what, if any compassion he has for the humans he put on this earth.




A couple good posts there.

The OP mentions a couple times his questions about mercy/salvation for the mentally ill who a less than able to play God's games. What I would submit is that God MADE the mentally ill who are less than able to play his games, as well as a great deal of other "human-wreckage-from-birth-or-early-childhood".

Yes, you can throw out a lot of "moves in mysterious ways" or "done to test us", which brings us to snowwolfe's notion of a vindictive/malicious entity either pulling strings for his own kinky satisfaction; perhaps an indifferent one who got bored with us and cut us adrift. Mercy, therefore, is not something I'd expect much of. If that entity is indeed out there, it is worthy of Good Cheer's "rebellion"

Heh, this world is a refinery.

[1hole]

Just a couple of thoughts Lloyd:

First, you say Jesus didn't memorise or teach from the Bible he had; that's clearly untrue. I'm sure those errors aren't YOUR'S, you're just quoting misleading men (Popes, Cardinals, monks, etc.) who use religion to control YOU through your church.

Jesus' "Bible" wasn't the KJV or the corrupted/added on Roman Catholic version of it. Jesus' law was on scrolls and most of it was written when the Mosaic Law alone gave man God's instructions. Jesus lived by the Law, he studied the Law as a child. So, even as a child he knew it and later he taught from and quoted that Law. He never - not once - denigrated his Bible, but he hated what he saw of self-seeking religious men looking for personal glorification and power in lavish pagan-ish temples teaching gullible people what to believe. That was true in the Old Testament and it remains true today.

Second, surely you jest when you suggest qullible accept Wikipediah as a source of Bible wisdom. Sure, misled religious men have distorted the Bible out of shape, they did that in New Testament days and they still do but we all nave access to good Bibles so that's no excuse for letting them continue to do so today.

Just as a reminder, your claims about hundreds of non RCC denominations is wrong. Remember that the biggest church separation in history came when the RCC and the Orthodox (churchs) split over who/where was the "real Pope." I don't know which group was worse for the cause of Christ but, so far as I know, the Orthodox church never resorted to torture nor killed thousands of people in an effort to continue their rule by terror if necessary to stop people from having their own Bibles written in their own native tongue.

Your RCC is not for me. I may be mistaken in some of my beliefs but I'd rather be chastised by the Lord for my own errors rather than because I was dumb enough to blindly follow blind religious quacks wearing pretty choir robes and gold jewelry while begging money "for the poor." And I KNOW there are quite a few RCC splinter groups in the U.S.A. today, both named and unnamed, but still flying under the Catholic flag so maybe you should clean your own house before condeming mine?

[Chena]

Assuming a literal interpretation of Scripture, it seems to me that The Book of Job and Revelation provide an answer to the OP’s question.

[1hole]

What I would submit is that God MADE the mentally ill who are less than able to play his games, as well as a great deal of other "human-wreckage-from-birth-or-early-childhood".

God neither plays games nor "tempts" anyone to sin.

Yes, you can throw out a lot of "moves in mysterious ways" or "done to test us",...

God knows our strengths and weaknesses,he needs no tests. He sometimes allows his people to be tried by sin because He wants us to recognise the same. When tested, some of us will learn we are spiritually stronger than we thought, some of us will learn we are weaker.

Check Mat. 26 to read about Peter's test the night of the crucifiction trial; his crushing failure that night led him to become a true pillar of strength because that was the night he learned to lean on God for his strength.

[Alabama358]

Like ive said the bible is as responsible for evil over the years as it has been for salvation.

Isn't Saying the Bible is responsible for evil over the years Exactly the same argument that the Liberals that want to confiscate your guns use.
You know the whole... "Guns kill people" thing
And regular fair thinking people say "Guns don't kill people...people kill people"

Never seen a Bible get up off the table and do evil in the same way I have never seen a pistol jump out of a holster and shoot someone on its own!

[Good Cheer]

God neither plays games nor "tempts" anyone to sin.



God knows our strengths and weaknesses,he needs no tests. He sometimes allows his people to be tried by sin because He wants us to recognise the same. When tested, some of us will learn we are spiritually stronger than we thought, some of us will learn we are weaker.

Check Mat. 26 to read about Peter's test the night of the crucifiction trial; his crushing failure that night led him to become a true pillar of strength because that was the night he learned to lean on God for his strength.

He has a great sense of humor.