Two Part Cast hunting bullets

[Wolfdog91]

Something I don't think I have seen heard or tired but definitely very cool. And Von gruff is a great fella to chat with



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[Winger Ed.]

Ya hear about it from time to time, and the idea seems to work well,
However; it's a little too tedious for me and I'd have concerns about them being the same weight
since one alloy is going to be heavier than the other and hard to keep consistant during the first pour.

If the idea is nose expansion,
I'd think a hollow point would get you to the same place, and be more simple and faster to cast.

[georgerkahn]

This brings memories of way back when, with inserting a Zippo cigarette lighter flint in the hollow-point of a .22 long rifle bullet -- unbelievable vis the increase of stopping power! Also, friends experimented with super-gluing ball bearings in the hollow-point of cast bullets. (Stability was the challenge -- when it worked, great, but not reliably consistent.)
geo

[Mk42gunner]

I've made some using the BruceB method, which is a sticky in the mold section IIRC.

The biggest trick to it is using a consistent sized nose portion. I used a .375" diameter pure lead round ball and ACWW for the shank of a Lyman 452424. Seemed to work fine, but I quit deer hunting shortly after making them.

Robert

[charlie b]

A really old idea (1940's or 50's?) that people try again and again over the years. At least a couple mold makers had two part molds. Pour the nose in one mold, transfer it to the second mold and pour the base. Or there were two molds, one nose and one base. Pour the nose and base separately and then epoxy them together.

Some simply made special ladles for the soft nose and then poured the base from the harder lead. That can be done in any mold. The hard part is managing the temperature of the mold during the two part pour.

[Digital Dan]

Simple path that yields target grade bullets: Nose and base moulds, put them in a hammer swage die. Paper patch and load.

[MT Gianni]

If you use 32 round balls for muzzle loaders, you have a known weight of pure. The challenge is getting the pour absolutely level and maintaining a bond.

[Thumbcocker]

It comes around again every 15 or 20 years. I played with it some using a 4 pound furnace full of soft lead with a cartridge case dipper and later a ladle with a .32 soft lead boolit floating on top of the melt in my bottom pour furnace. It worked ok but not really worth the effort for me.

[junkbug]

I remember reading articles by Ross Seyfried in the early 1990’s about doing this in “Guns and Ammo”.

[mdi]

This subject pops up every so often, and I believe I first saw it here, mebbe 2007? I considered experimenting with it, but never got started. One reason is I relied on bullet shape for effective hunting bullets. RNFP for my 44 Magnum carbine and even for my 30 cal cast bullets...

[405grain]

"This brings memories of way back when, with inserting a Zippo cigarette lighter flint in the hollow-point of a .22 long rifle bullet"

Yes that does bring back memories of my juvenile delinquent days. When we were brat kids we used to drill a small hole into the soft point of a 30-30 bullet, then press the flint from a Zippo lighter into it. Back in those days a spray can of WD-40 used either as the propellant. It was basically a steel can full of either and light oil. We'd put a can of WD-40 on top of a post in the middle of a plowed field (didn't want to set the whole farm on fire) and snipe it with our "flint tipped" bullet. When you hit the can the effect was what we called "the poor mans atom bomb".

[jimkim]

"This brings memories of way back when, with inserting a Zippo cigarette lighter flint in the hollow-point of a .22 long rifle bullet"

Yes that does bring back memories of my juvenile delinquent days. When we were brat kids we used to drill a small hole into the soft point of a 30-30 bullet, then press the flint from a Zippo lighter into it. Back in those days a spray can of WD-40 used either as the propellant. It was basically a steel can full of either and light oil. We'd put a can of WD-40 on top of a post in the middle of a plowed field (didn't want to set the whole farm on fire) and snipe it with our "flint tipped" bullet. When you hit the can the effect was what we called "the poor mans atom bomb".

I remember using WD40 as starting fluid.

I use a ladle and a 32 cal ball or a Lee Soupcan to pour the nose, when I do it. I want to see it done with a HP pistol mould.

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[D.Bullets]

Thanks that was very interesting. I will have to do this myself

[Beerd]

I've made some using the BruceB method, which is a sticky in the mold section IIRC.

The biggest trick to it is using a consistent sized nose portion. I used a .375" diameter pure lead round ball and ACWW for the shank of a Lyman 452424. Seemed to work fine, but I quit deer hunting shortly after making them.

Robert

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ntional-Moulds

casting bullets is kind of slow going but I found that they work as advertised.
..

[Digital Dan]

Second from the right. .50 caliber and 800 grains

https://i.imgur.com/olGTJwJ.jpg

[Larry Gibson]

Interesting Von Gruff says it blows the RPM Threshold theory out of the water but then goes on to tell exactly how to push the threshold up. Perhaps he has forgotten our previous discussions pertaining the the RPM Threshold not being a "limit". I have repeatidly told him and others the threshold may be pushed up or pushed down. His explanation and loading procedures is exactly how to push the RP Threshold up. Still Von Gruff states with his procedures the velocity "with good hunting accuracy" he has taken the 6.5 Grendel up to 2200 fps and the 7x57 to 2415 fps.....and so they can be as can just about any cartridge. He seems to forget the RPM Threshold is about where the best accuracy will be found, not where "acceptable accuracy" can be found. Also neither of those cartridges he loads to are loaded to the full potential of the cartridges. Apparently, the accuracy went south above his "acceptable accuracy" levels? It most likely did or he would be mentioning those higher potential velocities. Seems Von Gruff has failed to realize the velocity/RPM levels he has loaded to is simply where he has pushed the RPM Threshold up to, assuming those loads exhibit linear group expansion (also a part of the RPM Threshold Theory) to the maximum useable ranges he mentions.

Blown out of the water.....hardley. Von Gruff has merely reinforced the RPM Threshold Theory with additional examples. I, along with others, have succesfuly pushed the RPM Threshold up to 23-2400 fps with properly designed cast bullets that fit and are loaded correctly out of 10" twist rifles that hold acceptable accuracy (2 -3 moa with 10 shot groups) out to 500 yards. I have also pushed the RPM Threshold up in the 6.5 Swede to 21-2200 fps with cast bullets while maintaining "acceptable hunting accuracy" to 200 yards. It's not hard to do nor a novel concept to accomplish once you understand how to do it. Von Groff understands how to do it. Good on him.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Lyman made a mold/molds to pour two separate pieces. Some glued the two pieces together, Somebody else (LBT?) made a separate 'nose' mold, pour the 'noses' out of soft lead then put the soft lead 'nose' into the mold and pour the rest of the bullet. Have also read about using soft round ball like blackpowder or buckshot balls placed in mold and pouring the rest of mold with harder lead. A hollowpoint mold from NOE, Miha, or old Lyman seems like it would be just as effective, or simply use a softer lead for the bullets needed for hunting - 1-20, 1-25, 1-30. I just use jacketed for the longer ranges in Wyoming, a box or two might even be less expensive than all the fussing with lead boolits for hunting larger game. Shooting whitetails under a 100 yards is different, but a flat pint .30-20, .32 Special or .35 Remington works just fine for that.

[mdi]

I remember using WD40 as starting fluid.

I use a ladle and a 32 cal ball or a Lee Soupcan to pour the nose, when I do it. I want to see it done with a HP pistol mould.

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I worked in a Heavy/Construction Equipment shop for 25 years and often when a mechanic was working on an engine and needed starting fluid, if a can of WD40 was close, he'd use it instead of looking for starting fluid...

[TurnipEaterDown]

Lyman made a mold/molds to pour two separate pieces. Some glued the two pieces together, Somebody else (LBT?) made a separate 'nose' mold, pour the 'noses' out of soft lead then put the soft lead 'nose' into the mold and pour the rest of the bullet. Have also read about using soft round ball like blackpowder or buckshot balls placed in mold and pouring the rest of mold with harder lead. A hollowpoint mold from NOE, Miha, or old Lyman seems like it would be just as effective, or simply use a softer lead for the bullets needed for hunting - 1-20, 1-25, 1-30. I just use jacketed for the longer ranges in Wyoming, a box or two might even be less expensive than all the fussing with lead boolits for hunting larger game. Shooting whitetails under a 100 yards is different, but a flat pint .30-20, .32 Special or .35 Remington works just fine for that.

Yes, LBT did make nose molds so that a person could cast a soft nose, place it in the full mold, cast on the base and hope they knit together.
I have these for 260 WFN 44 & 325 WFN 475.

Hope is right unless you have some experience.
When I simply followed directions there were problems w/ strength at the parting line.
Need: clean fresh noses, oxidation mucks it up. Need to preheat the mold after the nose went in, to raise the nose temp. Pot for base material had to be Hot.

It's slow, and I had parting line strength issues.
Friend shot a deer w/ 44 bullet of mine, fell over dead on the spot. No hole anywhere in the body. He used to compete w/ pistols, and was a Very good shot. Best idea we had was the nose came off and either the base or the nose must have hit the deer in the head in a not too obvious spot.

Better idea was found in an article I read a couple years ago, and I felt better about using w/ iron molds.
(I ladle cast, so comments apply to that.)
Heat pot w/ base material to normal temp.
Float a small container on top w/ pure lead in it. I used a larger plumbers ladle.
Make yourself a mini-ladle out of a cut off case that holds (full) the amount of lead you want for a nose.
Dip the mini ladle full, pour in Hot mold.
Let the mold cool enough to solidify nose.
Pour base material in after nose cools.
Let the base solidify.
Keep the whole mold level and rest bottom of mold in casting pot for long enough to get both halves of bullet hot enough to get semi liquid, and it will seamlessly attach. I watched for the sprue "look" to change (Not melt).
Let the whole mold cool and then drop the bullet after cooled enough to have a fully solidified bullet.

Really tedious and slow, but in expansion testing the noses didn't come off.

The bummer for what I tried it on, 60 ish grain noses on 310 LEE 44 (1300 fps muzzle) & an Accurate 43-280G (1450 fps muzzle) I designed:
In impact/expansion testing the soft noses didn't have an impact or expansion cavity much different in wet newsprint that just a hard cast bullet.
Matter of fact: the hardcast (22-25 bhn) 43-280G at 1450 fps made a bigger surface crater at 20 yds into wet newsprint than the softnose. Meplat cavitation function was my hypothesis. The soft nose will deform and won't have a sharp edge which is helpful for cavitation.

I have just opted for a hard bullet of decent diameter with the biggest flatest nose I can get.
Loaded some Accurate 35-205B in 35 Remington at 2000 fps for that reason to use on deer. Shoots nearly as good for me as a Hornady 180 SSP at 100 yds, out of TC Contender.