Herters Powermags

[chefreiss1]

Anyone collecting and shooting Powermags? All calibers?

[Uncle Grinch]

Never had one, but was always interested in the 401 Power Mag… at least I think that is what it was called. Saw a Ruger BH in this caliber once. Was suppose to be close to a 41 Mag.

[jreidthompson1]

46 mins left on one on gb. 500 opening 625 buy it now. Watching it, but I'm going to pass right now. Also comes w 200 cast bullets.

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[chefreiss1]

I have 7 total, 1-.357 mag, 1- .44 mag, 4 - .401 mags. The last one is originally a .401 mag, but has a .38-40, .40 S&W and 10 mm cylinders made from .357 mag cylinders. The guns are so well made that I can use any of those cylinders with any of my .401s. The .401s can be loaded to .41 mag performance due to the strength of the revolvers.

The only issue is finding brass or factory ammo. Conversion brass can be made from .30-30, but is rather labor intensive. I have seen for sale many .401s with brass and that is the best option unless you can find ammo or brass that the sellers don't think they are made of gold. Fortunately I have purchased a few thousand pieces of brass and about 750 rounds of factory ammo, however it has taken about 15-20 years to avoid the "gold" brass and cartridges.

The revolvers are almost always in great condition due to the ammo issue. The grips are the only downside to the revolvers, being ugly plastic. However replacements are easily made and there are a few retail replacements. They are as accurate as any single action revolver. Gary Reeder has in the past converted them to some of his proprietary cartridges, that speaks to their great strength.

[Walks]

My Dad had one of the .401 revolvers. It was a very well made gun. But like most of his Guns, they disappeared in the 1974 burglary.

[gwpercle]

I have 7 total, 1-.357 mag, 1- .44 mag, 4 - .401 mags. The last one is originally a .401 mag, but has a .38-40, .40 S&W and 10 mm cylinders made from .357 mag cylinders. The guns are so well made that I can use any of those cylinders with any of my .401s. The .401s can be loaded to .41 mag performance due to the strength of the revolvers.

The only issue is finding brass or factory ammo. Conversion brass can be made from .30-30, but is rather labor intensive. I have seen for sale many .401s with brass and that is the best option unless you can find ammo or brass that the sellers don't think they are made of gold. Fortunately I have purchased a few thousand pieces of brass and about 750 rounds of factory ammo, however it has taken about 15-20 years to avoid the "gold" brass and cartridges.

The revolvers are almost always in great condition due to the ammo issue. The grips are the only downside to the revolvers, being ugly plastic. However replacements are easily made and there are a few retail replacements. They are as accurate as any single action revolver. Gary Reeder has in the past converted them to some of his proprietary cartridges, that speaks to their great strength.

LIKE !

Gary

[Texas by God]

George said that the .401 Powermag would shoot through an engine block and drop a human no matter where you hit them and etcetera and etcetera……..


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[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Here is two quotes from the 401 powermag section of the "Condensed Professional Loading and Reloading Data" manual. by George Leonard Herter.

The introduction starts with this
"The .401 Herter Powermag shoots with no more recoil than a .38 Special. It is definitely not a natural leader like the .357 Magnum so accuracy keeps up even with prolonged shooting. Has sufficient bullet diameter for police and military work and for big game hunting."

Then ends with this.
"The need for a .40 caliber revolver cartridge was apparent for a great many years. The .38 special has proven too light for police and military work. The .44 magnum is a excellent accurate round but simply has too much recoil for accurate military and police work or for targets or hunting. The .401 Herter Powermag shoots with no more recoil than a .38 Special."

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

About a decade ago, a Co-worker of mine had a Herter's J. P. Sauer & Sohn 44 mag revolver that he wanted to sell me. He said his Dad had same revolver in 401 and some original Herter's ammo. I never seen either of the guns, but was told they were like new. I asked him if his dad would sell me the 401. He said I had to buy his 44, then I could buy the 401. The Price was 9 Bills for both, so I passed. Looking at today's prices, I have to kick myself in the butt for passing on them.

[smkummer]

I have a 401 that I bought cheap from a lesser known auction site. Got 220 cases/loaded ammo from members here. I use 40/10mm dies to load with a 41 mag. she’ll holder. Currently loading a 180 grain SWC that drops as cast at .403 but slightly buldge s the cases when sized with those dies so I may size to .401. It’s accurate but my load at pretty mild at maybe 1000 fps with unique. Looking to find a 200 grain mold.

[chefreiss1]

I have a 401 that I bought cheap from a lesser known auction site. Got 220 cases/loaded ammo from members here. I use 40/10mm dies to load with a 41 mag. she’ll holder. Currently loading a 180 grain SWC that drops as cast at .403 but slightly buldge s the cases when sized with those dies so I may size to .401. It’s accurate but my load at pretty mild at maybe 1000 fps with unique. Looking to find a 200 grain mold.

All of my .401s cylinder throats measure .404 to .4045, so I size my bullets at .405. I have several sets of original Herters die sets, so I don't experience the bulging. Using the .40 S&W / 10 mm dies it would probably serve you well to have the sizing die opened up a bit.

[chefreiss1]

I wrote an article for the CBA "Fouling Shot" several years ago on the .401 PM. Once I can figure out how to post it I will do so.

[0verkill]

Anybody know what I can use as a replacement hand spring?

[thxmrgarand]

I may have mentioned this here in the past. When I was 14 years of age I went to the bank and had them give me a money order, in the amount of $47, out of my savings account, in favor of Herter's. I sent it to Waseca, and some time later received a .44 revolver. Some part of the process, which I do not specifically recall, required that I state I was at least 16 years of age; might have been UPS? I had thought long and hard about ordering the .401 instead.

My small town high school was what we called a Sputnik high school, so from those who had been in the A Group since the 4th grade, rather than the B or C Groups, took 2 years of chemistry as well as physics, calculus, etc. One of the chemistry professors, a little fellow with thick glasses who seemed to be afraid of women but had a new Mercury Comet convertible with a 390 engine and a 4 speed, had a .44 Blackhawk (before the Super Blackhawk). A few other fellows had various Blackhawks, .44 special revolvers, etc. We all shot together in a large pit outside of town. The chemistry professor gradually worked up to 26 grains of 2400, with a 240 grain half-jacketed bullet. I was a couple grains behind his progression. One day the topstrap and part of the cylinder went back over his shoulder. I have shot light-side loads in it ever since. Most of the time I carry a Model 29, so I haven't shot the Herter's much in recent, but it's carefully constructed with close tolerances. On the barrel it says it was made in West Germany. For carrying it's a 5 shot of course.

Herter's mail order was very big here back in the 1950s and 1960s, before I got here - the 49th State. I have seen Herter's skiffs, snowmobiles, truckloads of reloading gear, archery equipment, rifles, thermoses, etc. But I have not seen many Herter's revolvers. I still resent the 1968 Gun Control Act because today a person of any age cannot buy an inexpensive revolver by sending a money order (no one in my social class had checking accounts back then) to an outfit like Herter's, and many stupid Americans believe we are safer today for it. And not coincidentally there is no outfit like Herter's today.

[chefreiss1]

Anybody know what I can use as a replacement hand spring?

It's rare to find the spring alone. Numrich's sells the hand w/ spring.

[0verkill]

Don't need to pay $35 when I just need a $3 spring. I'm going to try to make one from a 1911 sear spring. Failing that, if someone else knows a model i can substitute, I'd appreciate it.

[chefreiss1]

Here is the article I referred to in a previous post. Since writing this article, I have added both more Powermags and molds to the mix.

Uncommon Power -The Herters .401 Powermag

by David Reiss


From the start I would like to say this article is not meant to compete with the excellent articles written by Glen
Fryxell and Lee Martin on the ,401 Powermag. From a discussion on the CBA forum it was suggested an article on
the .401 Powermag was needed for publication in the Fouling shot. My history with the Powermag series of revolvers
is fairly extensive on it's own. I currently own three .401s, one .44, one .357 and one .401 that has been converted
to .38-40. In addition I have sold three .401 Powermags. Most common for sale are the .401 & .44 magnums,
with .357 magnums seldom seen at gunshows or on internet auction sites.

The Gun:
Herter's produced one model handgun chambered for the .401, the Powermag single action revolver. Some early models were named the "Single-Six", but copyright issues with Ruger over their revolver named the same, forced Herters to stop producing them under that name. Very early models can be found with the words "Single-Six" struck through or "Xed out" on the barrel. There was a double action revolver chambered for the .401 cataloged, but as far as I know it was never produced as no specimens have ever surfaced. My friend "Mr. Herters" and author of "Herter's Reloading Equipment Presses and Dies", Ed Sager, has shown me a photo sent to him of a stainless Powermag. Both of us are doubtful of it's authenticity, thinking it is probably plated with a brush finish. The photo is of poor quality and so far the owner has not produced better photos or let Ed see it in person.
The Powermag single action revolver was produced from 1961-1967, in .357 mag & .44 mag also. This revolver is basically the Hawes adjustable sighted "Chief Marshall" produced by J.P. Sauer & Sohn of West Germany. It is a beefy made large frame single action and shares some of the same parts as the Colt SAA. All models come with a 6.5" barrel, any other lengths apparently are customization made after leaving the factory. However Numrich's carries some shorter length barrels that were aparently made either for the Chief Marshalls or for Powermags that were never assembled. The three .401s I own and all others I have handled, have cylinder throats that measure between .4045" and .405". First time owners of Powermags always think it has a custom trigger job. The reason is that all of them have a crisp clean pull that breaks at between 1.5 & 2 lbs, with no take-up or over-travel. This is the way they came from the factory. As I said they are handcrafted and well made.
The only negatives I can say about the Powermags are few. First the grips are oversized (but feel good in my hand and I don't have large hands) and are made of a black plastic. From time to time you may find wood grips for sale on eBay or Gunbroker. However after market grips are available from tombstonegrips.com and grips can be easily made from any material you like. The other negative sometimes heard is about the sights. As stated before they are adjustable and work very well. However the large protective ears of the rear sight many find unsightly and the extra tall front sight makes holsters more difficult to locate.



Function & Finish:
If the Colt SAA & the Ruger Super Blackhawk had an offspring, it would be a Powermag. They are smooth functioning and lockup tight. Being all steel (except for the grips) and weighing in at 49 ounces, they handle recoil well. They feature a frame mounted firing pin, smooth faced trigger and hammer that is easily accessible without readjusting your grip. With a hand polished, deep blued finish and hand fitting of parts, these guns are exhibits of what is sometime referred to as "old world German craftsmanship".
One bit of home gunsmithing I do to all my Powermags is to remove the ejector rod barrel bushings and re-install it with some Locktite. Without doing so, it will eventually back out under recoil.
The .401 Powermag cartridge:
The .401 and the .41 magnum cases are so similar in size and capacity, the ballistics are virtually the same. The main difference between them is that the .401 uses .404" - .405" bullets and the .41 mag uses .409-.410", other than that the load data can be interchanged as a starting point.
All loads in the chart were fired on a 25 yard range with high berms on three sides (helps to keep wind at bay), from a sandbag rest. All loads used original Herters brass, powder from a powder measure, bullets sized with a Lee .405" die and lubed with a .406" sizing die in a RCBS Lubamatic.
Loading for the .401 is just like any other straight walled pistol. The only exception is there are no carbide sizing dies available, so lubing is necessary. Original Herters dies are rarely seen for sale, in fact I have only seen 6 sets for sale over the past 10 years. I purchased 5 of the 6. Keeping 3 sets to go along with the three .401s I have, which will passed down to my children and grandchildren. The other two sets were sold or traded for other items. RCBS and CH will make them as a custom die set at a hefty cost.
Brass and loaded ammo can be found a little more often, but usually at a premium price. However I have been able to secure about 800 rounds of unfired brass, another 200-300 of once fired and 9 boxes of original loaded ammo. The brass was made by Norma for Herters and is of high quality. Since the cartridge case is of a unique head size, making brass is not easy. It can be made from .30-30 and .41 mag, but it requires some rim & web turning. There are several good articles on making brass, so I will not comment any further.
As stated earlier there is a wide variety of molds available to cast bullets of the correct diameter or close enough to be sized. The .401 can handle a wide variety of bullet weights from 145 to 300 grains. In my stable of molds, I have several that I use for the .401 powermag. Here is that list:

Lee 145 gr. SWC PB
Lyman 40188 170 gr. SWC PB
Lee 175 gr. SWC PB
Herters 411180 180 gr. FN PB
NOE 403-180 180 gr. FN PB & GC
Lyman 40143 180 gr. FN PB
Saeco 047C 200 gr. TC BB
NOE 403-200 200 gr. WFN PB & GC
Lyman 403169 245 gr. FN PB
NEI 403-250 250 gr. RFN GC
NEI 404-280 280 gr. RFN PB



I use wheel weight alloy almost exclusively for all handgun rounds I load from .22 Jet to .45-70 with RCBS bullet lube. The choice of RCBS lube comes from an economic one. You see several years ago I got a deal I couldn't pass up, sticks for $1.25 each and I bought several cases. Then just the other day I saw some RCBS lube listed on eBay for, again by the case and at a good price. Needless to say I will probably never use another lube on my handgun CBs, other than LA. Hey they both make a good combo with WWs that is hard to beat.



The .401 is not lacking in power or accuracy. My hunting experience is not that extensive with the cartridge, but the few kills I made were spectacular. The first was a Texas whitetail buck weighing about 150 lbs on the hoof. The shot was pretty much textbook, having a broadside shot at the vitals. The deer was standing at 60 yards and was shot from a ground blind. He bucked at the impact at about 3 inches behind the front leg. He hit the ground on his feet and spun around three times, before falling over dead. The load was 17 grs. of 2400, behind a NOE WFN GC weighing about 200 grains of WW alloy of course. Postmortem showed the bullet ripped through the top part of the heart and some lung tissue. The exit wound was 1.5" in diameter, very close to the same location as the impact but on the opposite side. The bullet was never found.
Another opportunity took place when hog hunting just north of Houston. Again hunting from a ground blind near a feeder about 75 yards away, I had already taken a 60 lb., good eat-tin size piggy that wandered to close to the feeder. Several hours later another set of targets wandered their way into my vision. This time I was looking for something a little larger, to see how the Powermag would met the task. This brown & white boar mingled in the background, letting the smaller specimens run cover for him. It seems as if he would never give me a clear shot. But when he did, oh what a mistake he made. The 280 gr. NEI slug traveling just under 1100 fps, slapped him in the front left shoulder, exploding his lungs and liver. He fell over at the impact just like you have walked up and pushed him over with no resistance, kicked his legs and bit the dust. The bullet just plowed through and exited on the opposite side. He could have not been more dead. His weight, just over 210 lbs.
So what is so different about the .401 Powermag from the .41 mag, nothing ballistic wise. The .41 sure has it beat when it comes to availability of loaded ammo, brass & guns chambered for, since there is only the Herters .401 revolver, brass and ammo, long out of production. However for me it is the self satisfaction of knowing I am very unlikely to see another one at the range or hunting camp and if it is going to roar, then it will depend on me and my handloading ability. I also like oddball guns and cartridges, the Powermag fits in nicely.
Herters introduced the .401 in 1961, three years before .41 mag. Had George Herter handled the marketing of his new cartridge or teamed up with a major ammo manufacturer, then the .41 mag might not seen the light of day.

[Reg]

Excellent. Thank you

[Bmi48219]

Anybody know what I can use as a replacement hand spring?

It’s a crapshoot but a lot of HAWES pistol parts are interchangeable. Numrich may have exploded views of your Herter and some of the Hawes pistols. Jack First might be able to set you up.

[chefreiss1]

Yes the Hawes large frame is the same, however most of those parts (at least the ones commonly needed) are out of stock. Nancy at JF may be able to help, but I know in the past when I checked they were out of stock on PM parts when I was looking to stock up.