I got more lead and still i'm ignoroant

[Mike Langlois]

Greetings All,
Forgive my ignorance, it is not for a lack of study. I just received 50 lbs of lead stamped Hardball and 051521. I'm cramming reloading, ballistics and casting info into my brain as fast as I can (I don't sleep so I can do this) and I cast my first lead bars last week. I figured out to wash my hands after playing with this stuff and noting that the last three bars cast were a different color; I figured that they may be contaminated.

Now the Hardcast 051521 has arrived and I was wondering if some one can give me a sneak peak into what the satuff is all about. I'll do my studying ASAP; honestly.
Anxious Mike

[pworley1]

Here you go.
https://www.rotometals.com/hardball-...y-and-92-lead/

[Winger Ed.]

If the different color is only on the top, it may just be oxidation that forms on any Lead in a few minutes.
If so, don't worry about it.

The common contamination most of us get comes from Zinc getting in there from new age wheel weights or something.
You'll know right away you have it when the contents of the pot looks and acts like oatmeal.

[hades]

Can you rephrase the question Mike? You have hardball and hardcast(?) you're working with? I'm not familiar with 051521 if that's an alloy.

[NyFirefighter357]

Also don't mistake an alloy not hot enough as zinc/Zn contamination. If your worried it's easy to check with muriatic acid. Yellow/blue color in alloy indicates the alloy was heated too hot.

[Dave W.]

I would not get to concerned about the different colors. When melting it did you keep the temperature under 750*? I try to run my pot between 700 and 725*. The hardball should be ready to cast into bullets as is. Not sure what the composition of the hardcast is, so cannot give advice on it. It may help if you could post a picture of a normal ingot and a discolored one, side by side in the same photo.

[Mike Langlois]

Greetings All,
So it is HARDBALL not HARDCAST; that was my mistake. I believe that the number is a date.
. The metals and equipment came from the same source and the person took meticulous notes on the casting and coating of the bullets. I'm a Biochemist by trade and his procedures and details were better documented than most of the work I did in the field. It makes sense that the bars were dated; does this seem a likely scenario?

The Bars I cast that were a different color, came from sheets of lead that were folded. As it melted in the furnace, a yellow/brown Scrum formed on the surface, which I removed. If I did this correctly, here is a picture

The first bars I cast were a consistent lead color (looked like the SCUBA weights that were melted). There was some contamination on the first set of bars, but it was minimal and expected, since the lead was a bit dirty. The rainbow colored lead had about three times as much 'Scrum' on the top. I am sure casting nomenclature has a better term for 'Scrum', so please enlighten me.

Gosh this is fun, I can't weight (Punny spelling) to melt something else. Are there other things I can melt safely in my furnace and not mess it up? I'm not generally known for checking before doing stuff like this, but melted metal is hot and I imagine it can do bad stuff. If there is a safety forum, I'll search that out next. Thank you for the info and encouragement.
Manic Mike

[Sasquatch-1]

Greetings All,
So it is HARDBALL not HARDCAST; that was my mistake. I believe that the number is a date.
. The metals and equipment came from the same source and the person took meticulous notes on the casting and coating of the bullets. I'm a Biochemist by trade and his procedures and details were better documented than most of the work I did in the field. It makes sense that the bars were dated; does this seem a likely scenario?

The Bars I cast that were a different color, came from sheets of lead that were folded. As it melted in the furnace, a yellow/brown Scrum formed on the surface, which I removed. If I did this correctly, here is a picture

The first bars I cast were a consistent lead color (looked like the SCUBA weights that were melted). There was some contamination on the first set of bars, but it was minimal and expected, since the lead was a bit dirty.

The stuff with the bluish-purple tint is probably a fairly soft alloy. If it comes out with a straw/gold color that can be a sign of harder lead. These tints do not always occur. The softer lead is good for Muzzleloaders and swaging. If you want to use it for modern pistol or rifle you may want to look into powder coating.

The "SCRUM" you mention is usually referred to as "DROSS".

[Land Owner]

Welcome to the madness.

Safety first - ALWAYS. Hands, face, Eyes, arms, legs, and feet protected. Hot lead BURNS and can spatter. You don't want any part of that!

Go slow! Haste makes waste and invites trouble, though you can remelt most alloys. ZINC contamination is bad. Getting burned is worse.

FLUX your melted lead and alloys of alloy to remove impurities and keep solvable components from disassociating. Sawdust is cheap, plentiful, easy to make, and it works. Throw it on top of the melt, while it is melting, and stir it around - a lot. It will pick up and keep impurities floating on top. Scoop impurities off with a long-handled spoon. Wax and crayons work well as flux too, though wax WILL ignite, which, if anticipated, is ok.

As in welding, DROSS, not"scrum", is the part that you want to eliminare and discard.

Read https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...or-Handgunners...

Again, go slow. This is not a "hair on fire" hobby. It can hurt or kill you.

[Rickf1985]

I was going to say in the beginning that the colors would be soft, or pure lead and then when I got to your pics and you described the sheets you nailed it. That is what you normally see with dead soft lead and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. When melting any new lead keep your pot temp below 700 degrees, this way if you end up with any zinc pieces in there they will float to the top and you can pick them out. A thermometer is a must so you know were you are at. Dead soft lead will take a while to melt if you are set at 700 since it melts around 650-675 but patience is a virtue. Preventing zinc contamination will save you money and aggravation down the road.

[Mike Langlois]

So I tried the hardness tester and sure enough the tinted lead is very soft. The other lead, that was purchased along with equipment, is quite a bit harder; somewhere in the 12 range. I'm calling up the partner with the 3D printer and solving the "Moving Microscope Madness" that seems to be the only issue with the Lee tester. I'll reserve further comment on the actual hardness, with the last observation that the Soft Lead Test Point was close to double the size of the Hard Lead. I'm off to the stickies to soak up more of the knowledge before playing with molten metal. As noted above, Molten Metal can cause burns.......
Manic Mike

[405grain]

Mike Langlois: " As it melted in the furnace, a yellow/brown Scrum formed on the surface, which I removed." If you're getting a yellow/brown powdery scum forming on the surface of your melt, that is most likely oxidized lead. If you are getting lead oxide, that means that you have your melting pot way too hot. Also, metallic lead isn't that toxic, but lead oxide is. You should treat lead oxide as if it were rat poison. You only need for your lead to be hot enough to melt and flow freely. You will still get a small amount of oxidation over time as you melt and cast your lead, but this small amount of oxide can be dealt with by fluxing. Adding a piece of beeswax the size of a pee and stirring it into the pot will reduce the oxides back into metallic alloy. Be cautious, as the wax will smoke, and sometimes the wax can catch fire, so wear leather gloves. If the wax catches fire it is of no concern, and will quickly burn out. Skim any crud off the surface of the alloy after fluxing. You can use other things like candle wax or sawdust to flux with, but I like beeswax best.

Don't rush into the learning process, as there's always new stuff to learn. The people on this site are always helpful, and willing to share information. In addition to the stuff you can learn here I suggest that you get a copy of the 4th Edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. There's also a wealth of information here: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...or-Handgunners

[Mike Langlois]

I appreciate the heads up on the temperature and I believe you are correct, as I had the melting pot turned up. I have been through the Lyman 4 th edition and I'm part way through "From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for HandGunners". This stuff is too much fun and the wife is looking at me funny again. It took me a while to figure out who LASC was and find that excellent book. It looks like they went through a website change/upgrade at least. I do appreciate all the input and advice. I really, really want to go cast a bullet...
Manic Mike

[45workhorse]

Go cast some!
Mistakes!
Throw back in the pot!
Nothing beats pouring a silver stream!
Book knowledge, will only take you so far.
Pay attention to all safety measures, and it won't take you long to figure what works for you and what doesn't.

[ulav8r]

Mike Langlois: " As it melted in the furnace, a yellow/brown Scrum formed on the surface, which I removed." If you're getting a yellow/brown powdery scum forming on the surface of your melt, that is most likely oxidized lead. If you are getting lead oxide, that means that you have your melting pot way too hot. Also, metallic lead isn't that toxic, but lead oxide is. You should treat lead oxide as if it were rat poison. You only need for your lead to be hot enough to melt and flow freely. You will still get a small amount of oxidation over time as you melt and cast your lead, but this small amount of oxide can be dealt with by fluxing. Adding a piece of beeswax the size of a pee and stirring it into the pot will reduce the oxides back into metallic alloy. Be cautious, as the wax will smoke, and sometimes the wax can catch fire, so wear leather gloves. If the wax catches fire it is of no concern, and will quickly burn out. Skim any crud off the surface of the alloy after fluxing. You can use other things like candle wax or sawdust to flux with, but I like beeswax best.

Don't rush into the learning process, as there's always new stuff to learn. The people on this site are always helpful, and willing to share information. In addition to the stuff you can learn here I suggest that you get a copy of the 4th Edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. There's also a wealth of information here: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...or-Handgunners

When I take a pee, it can be anywhere from a few drops to 5 or 6 fluid ounces. An English pea is a little different in size from a Black-Eyed Pea.

[kevin c]

Welcome.

I haven’t seen the Tinsel Fairy mentioned yet.

A visit from this entity, demonstrated by blobs and filaments of alloy all over your workbench, ceiling and person as a result of a steam explosion in your pot, is to be avoided at all costs, as that metal is molten as it flies through the air.

Water under the surface of the melt is the problem. A drop of water will sizzle and evaporate harmlessly if dropped over molten metal, but if it is carried under by being in a void or crevice in scrap lead or even an ingot, you’re in for trouble. Please avoid this by never putting cold lead of any kind into already molten lead; start with an empty pot or, in the case of ingots, preheat them to drive off any hidden moisture (placing them on the pot rim is what most folks do; just be sure they sit solidly and that you’ve got maneuvering room for vice grips [they’ll be hot enough to burn]).

ETA: even moisture on metal tools like casting ladles can do this, so be sure to preheat those before dipping them into the melt, especially if they have bits of alloy stuck on from previous use.

[Kosh75287]

Hardball alloy is plenty good for multiple applications, including its namesake, in .45 ACP. I'm not clear on exactly why this alloy was labeled "Hardball", but surmise that it is b/c the .452" LRN projectiles cast from it weigh more closely to 230 gr. than other established casting alloys.
For classic .45 ACP performance, the mix is much harder than need be, to prevent leading. I have pushed 230 gr. TCs (alox lube) to velocities in the low 1300 f/s velocity range (.45 Colt) with minimal to no leading.

[BJung]

Pure lead oxidizes easier than alloys. I've had range scrap ingots turn color after sitting in my garage for over a year. The proper temperature of your lead should be the temperature your melted lead starts to solidify plus 100 degrees. I use used foil pie plates and pans to catch bits of lead than, fold, and pour it back into my pot. To clean my floor, TSP is said to react to lead dust.. You can use D-lead handsoap. Wipes are available too. You can test lead hardness with Staedtler Mars art pencils. A good pencil sharpener like the Kutsuwa adjustable angle sharpener works well for me. I wear my $1 store reading glasses while casting. I can see and my eyes are protected. You might have contaminants in your lead still. I have some like that if I don't stir my lead and skim off the slag. No waste for me. I melt that slag with some lead later and pour that into fishing weight molds.

[Winger Ed.]

. Are there other things I can melt safely in my furnace and not mess it up?

I'd discourage it.

Don't forget- wear good eye protection- not those cheap glasses the make your head hurt, gloves, and a heavy shirt or jacket.
And have some ventilation going, you won't get Lead fumes, but all that smoke ain't good for ya either.
If some moisture is in anything you add (cold) to a hot pot,,, it'll jump right back up out of there and decorate the ceiling.

[fredj338]

The closer to pure lead the more blue it appears at higher temps. I think far too much is made of this or that alloy in general terms. If you are casting for handguns, fit is more important. if it dents at all, its bullet alloy. If powder coating, it isnt as important but fit is king.