Lyman 20ga sabot slug loads

[barkerwc4362]

I get the emails from Ballistic Products when they produce a new "Load of the Week". One of the recent ones was for the Lyman 20ga sabot slug. Since I had never tried it and hearing all the bad press it has gotten in the past I figured I would try it. Let me fast forward and say the load was a failure. After five rounds there was a light wash of lead in the barrel and groups were about 6" at 25 yards. But, since I now had the mold and some additional slugs cast I pulled out my Lyman 5th Edition Shotgun reloading manual. I initially tried the Universal load in the Cheddite hull and WAA-20 wad. The group was better, but not great. I then dug through my powder stash and found I had some SR-4756 and Bluedot, but no Titewad or enough HS-7 to matter. So I loaded 5 Cheddites with the SR-4756 and Federal 20S1 wads. The result was as follows:

The recoil of the Universal and Cheddite load will get your attention, but not what I was looking for. Next I loaded three loads using Federal 3" cases with Universal, SR-4756, and Bluedot.

Universal with WAA20 and 28ga 1/8" fiber wad seemed to be the best. The sabots(wads) are in good shape

SR-4756 with the PC-20 wad was the slowest and lowest pressure. Had a "different" sound. I only managed to find three of the sabots. All of them showed signs of extreme distress. Not a good load.

Bluedot with the Federal 20S1 and 28ga 1/8" fiber came in second. But not as good grouping as the Universal load. Also, a lot more recoil. The sabots showed a little distress, but are still in one piece. I have found a really accurate and consistent sabot slug load has to have sabots that stay together and do their job of spinning the slug and protecting the slug as it transits the barrel. Having seen how 105mm sabot rounds function in an M60 tank gives a good lesson on what works. I will load some more of the Universal in Federal cases and try them at 50 yards. I may even scope the 870 to see how well I can make it shoot.
Bill

[Teddy (punchie)]

Thanks for posting.

[barkerwc4362]

Well I went out and bought a 20 gauge Hastings barrel for a Remington 1100 LT-20. It's a 2 3/4 only and is 24 inches long. It has the integral scope mount on the barrel. I mounted a Leupold VX-2 1-4 scope off my 358 Winchester. I tried Federal, Winchester, Remington, and Fiocchi hulls. All but the Fiocchi were once fired. The loads are straight out of the Lyman 5th edition. The Federal and Fiocchi loads did not shoot well. Two Winchester loads were acceptable. For some reason Lyman chose to use RXP-20 wads with Win209 primers. I do not have any CCI209 primers, so here are the Winchester loads:

Winchester HS hulls using Universal powder and Remington RXP20 wads.

Winchester HS hulls using WSF powder and Remington RXP20 wads.

Remington Heavy Dove/Quail hulls using 800X powder and WAA20 wads.

This load grouped the best of all. Remington Heavy Dove/Quail hulls using 4756 powder and WAA20 wads. All loads were fired at 50 yards off a rest. The 2 3/4" loads all grouped better than the 3" loads. Whether that is the Hasting barrel on the 1100 being better than the Remington barrel on the 870 I don't know. I want to shoot the 2 3/4" loads in the 3" 870 barrel and see if they still group as well as they do in the Hasting barrel. Oh, and that Hasting barrel was not cheap.
Bill

[TD1886]

Well I went out and bought a 20 gauge Hastings barrel for a Remington 1100 LT-20. It's a 2 3/4 only and is 24 inches long. It has the integral scope mount on the barrel. I mounted a Leupold VX-2 1-4 scope off my 358 Winchester. I tried Federal, Winchester, Remington, and Fiocchi hulls. All but the Fiocchi were once fired. The loads are straight out of the Lyman 5th edition. The Federal and Fiocchi loads did not shoot well. Two Winchester loads were acceptable. For some reason Lyman chose to use RXP-20 wads with Win209 primers. I do not have any CCI209 primers, so here are the Winchester loads:

Winchester HS hulls using Universal powder and Remington RXP20 wads.

Winchester HS hulls using WSF powder and Remington RXP20 wads.

Remington Heavy Dove/Quail hulls using 800X powder and WAA20 wads.

This load grouped the best of all. Remington Heavy Dove/Quail hulls using 4756 powder and WAA20 wads. All loads were fired at 50 yards off a rest. The 2 3/4" loads all grouped better than the 3" loads. Whether that is the Hasting barrel on the 1100 being better than the Remington barrel on the 870 I don't know. I want to shoot the 2 3/4" loads in the 3" 870 barrel and see if they still group as well as they do in the Hasting barrel. Oh, and that Hasting barrel was not cheap.
Bill

Bill I'm going to tell you something. I use to shoot that Lyman pellet sabot slug over 22 years ago. I was using a heavy rifled barrel H&R 20 gauge with a scope. At time Lyman recommended a Winchester wad. I was getting a lot of 3/4 to 1 inch five shot groups, but I would occasionally get fliers. I use to shoot across a mowed lawn. As I would walk down to my target I would pick the wads up. I noticed something and I started putting two and two together. On some of the wads pedals would be missing. Varying from one, two, three pedals. What I put together was when the pedals came off the wad that shot was a flier. Here's more info, when I used new cases I had not fliers. With once fired the fliers were less frequent. Yet more info. I talked to Hornady about this. Oh man the tech was on top of this and said he's been yelling at skeet shooters for using once fired cases past a certain point. He said the case gets rough on the inside from the powder burning it. Next he told me something I knew. He said load or get a new factory shell. Cut the crimp off it, dump the bb's, then try to pull the wad out. Comes out easy he says. Then he said load a case that's been fired two or three times and do the same thing. You can't pull the wad out. He was right as I've done that before. So the rough cases are ripping pedals and that throws the shot. Hope that help. BTW you're doing some damn good shooting.

[GooseGestapo]

I get similar performance from my Lyman mold. I’m shooting them from a Savage M220.
I don’t see a statistical difference in the groups. If you were to shoot 5- 5shot groups with each hull, your results wouldn’t be significantly different.

Where I find the Lyman slug deficient is past 75yds . Something about the balance of the Lyman causes it to destabilize around 75yds and hitting a 24”x24” target reliably is problematic.

I’ve moved on to using a Lee .575” REAL with dramatically better results. I use a 7/8oz wad (Claybuster) over 17.8gr of LongShot with 3 cardboard 9/16” wads under the slug. Velocity is about 1,250 with the 1oz projectile.

This slug doesn’t show the destabilization past 80yds, and shoots 4-5” groups at 100yds.

I cut the wads from glazed empty wine box containers. They’re thin and stiff like over powder card wads. Works better than a compressible filler such a cream of wheat, grits or grex.

Yeah, I’ve seen torn wads. Mine comes from irregularity of shot shell wads. Sabot slug wads are much stiffer and uniform. Most tear entering the forcing cone/chamber throats. They do throw the flyers…

[ovendoctor]

wen we first started shooting the lyman slugs we found that they shoot better out of a smooth bore than a rifled bore
3-5'' group at 100 yards out of a Ithaca 37 slug barrel off a bench rest
WW AA hulls with WW 12R wads
same load with a Browning A bolt 12''+
could not get it dialed in to shoot them

[Hogtamer]

Several folks in the past about the Lyman 20s, saying they were undersized relative to the 12 ga which I’ve had excellent results with.

[MarkP]

I can not get my Lyman 20 ga sabot slugs to shoot like the Lyman 12 ga sabot slugs do in rifled bbl's. (6" ish at 65 yds vs 2" - 3" in 12 ga) I found the LEE 58 cal Improved Mini Target (I think that is what they call it) shoots the best in my 20 ga Rem 870 Thumbhole slug.

[curioushooter]

I am assuming this is being shot from a rifled barrel and not a smoothbore?

My experience with the Lee 12 gauge slug in a Ithaca rifled Deerslayer II barrel was salutatory. The lee bullet has a screwdriver "key" in its base that grips the federal hull well and it definitely rotates. The lyman slug seems to lack that.

I’ve moved on to using a Lee .575” REAL with dramatically better results. I use a 7/8oz wad (Claybuster) over 17.8gr of LongShot with 3 cardboard 9/16” wads under the slug. Velocity is about 1,250 with the 1oz projectile.

This slug doesn’t show the destabilization past 80yds, and shoots 4-5” groups at 100yds. "

What shell were you using? This seems very promising.