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Thread: How much quicker is a 6 cavity

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgerkahn View Post
    Being three-quarters of a century old (75), I need add/comment that the big multiple cavity moulds do come at a cost -- their weight! Whether your mould is aluminum, iron, or brass -- what's going in the cavities is lead! A few years back -- when into Bullseye big time -- I went gang-busters with a H&G 8 cavity mould. Unbelievably quicker production than the Ideal single-cavity I started with! But -- and it is a big "but" -- as the years passed the 8-cavity kind of stopped being fun to use. As were my 6-cavity moulds.
    Now I pretty much -- 99% of the time -- use double- and single- cavities.
    Just another factor to consider in your decision, Jevyod.
    geo
    I am in the same boat wrt to not being physically able to use the larger molds for extended periods. I miss the productivity of my old H&G wo cavity but it not the effort needed.

    After selling some "useless" toys I invested in a Master Caster. 350-400/hr with a two cavity in that machine is good enough for the amount of shooting I do now.

    I am too lazy to use a normal two cavity mold as the productivity is low. But I only shoot cast in pistol calibers so that factors into it.

    Like in most areas of this hobby, there is no one perfect answer for everyone.
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  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I make about 50-60 pours per fatigue set . That's 40-50 singles , 110 out of a double , 200 + from a 4 , 325 from a 6 , and nearly 500 from the 8c H&G monster because at 1/4 lb at a time I have to reload the pot to pour 50 times .

    I spend the same 90 min or so for 100 or 3-500 .
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  3. #23
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    Assuming the molds to be compared, function equally well, then it all depends on the mold as to how fast one will cast. One thing few people take into consideration when making/designing a mold, is the ratio of mold block mass, to the mass of alloy in and on the cavity/cavities. That ratio plays into how long it takes for the alloy to properly freeze, as well as, the temp range where the mold needs to be. If the ratio isn't perfect, adjusting casting cadence is the go to factor to fix it, but adjusting alloy temp can help bring that into sync also.

    Actually there is a lot more to it, with different mold materials and how they dissipate heat, ambient air conditions and such...But this is a internet forum, not a Ted Talk.
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  4. #24
    Boolit Master Randy Bohannon's Avatar
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    Nothing but two holers for me ,all big and long bullets . No Lee moulds or aluminum both inferior to iron or brass than what is available from good mould makers.

  5. #25
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    The 6 holer is faster, but not three times as fast. I find that the increased volume of hot lead takes longer to cool in the 6 cavity, so I get fewer casts per minute, but more boolits per cast. I guess that I average a bit more than twice as many per minute. But something else that factors in is the number of keepers. If I muff a pour on a 2 cavity, and only get one keeper, I've lost half that time. But in the six-banger, I still get 5 good boolits, so the production rate is still higher.

    Another thing that affects production rate issue is mold material and mold quality. My 5 cavity NOE molds generally produce more keepers per cast for me than my 6 cavity LEE molds, due to the differences in the amount and alloy of aluminum used in the blocks, despite being having fewer cavities.

    But no matter what, for me, it's "four or more" when it comes to cavities. Life's to short to spend casting.
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  6. #26
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    There is a trade-off. The 6 cavity is faster. I never timed the speed but if I were to guess how many bullets I'd have from casting with a 6 cavity vs 2 cavity mold, I'd have almost 3x more. Yet, if I were to weigh the same amount of bullets cast from each set of molds, the 2 cavity mold cast bullets are more consistent. I cast bullets from a 2 cavity mold and using one cavity, the bullet weight was about the same The 6 cavity molds consistently cast two weight groups.

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohannon View Post
    Nothing but two holers for me ,all big and long bullets . No Lee moulds or aluminum both inferior to iron or brass than what is available from good mould makers.
    I don't know. I have an NOE aluminum 461-543 3 cav that casts every bit as nice a bullet as the MP 462-420 PB/HB 2 cav and either of the singles in 458193 or 45-500 . I'll tell you I'll pour 4 260-120s 2 ea in the aluminum NOE faster easier lighter and generally more enjoyably than with 258312 4 c Lyman.

    The 461-543 is supposed to be a 535 gr and they drop 3 at a time +-2 gr over the course of 12# of metal . I get almost that with both of the singles , the 458193 is only a 405 but runs 414.8-416 while the 45-500 runs 531-534 . If I want a bunch of 45 cal 200 or 255 SWC I'm not getting out the 45-200 RCBS or the 454424 singles I'm getting out the the 8 cavity H G #130 or the aluminum NOE version of the 454424 5 cavity that again casts within 1.5 gr vs my 7mm-168 that drops a 176 and a 178 gr bullet with +-1 gr .

    Now the Lees are their own special thing and the 452-255 6c gives me 4 265s , 1 263 , and a 267 but it's consistent.
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  8. #28
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    All my pistol bullets are cast with the Lee 6 cavity molds and ingots set on the same hotplate I pre-heat my molds on. Usually take a break every 200 bullets and add alloy at that time. By the time my break is over pot is at temp and have at it again. Counting pre-heat on the mold, pot coming to temp, and break time will usually end up with about 1K bullets in less than 2 hours. Even rifle bullets in NOE 5 cavity molds run near that many in the same time frame. Don't know about 3X but definitely 2X+.

  9. #29
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    I mostly run 4 holers, but the math for me is that the pour takes only very slightly longer, and the waiting on the sprue takes the same amount of time. If they're running equally well, it's a significant increase in speed.

    Some folks have physical issues with the weight of the larger molds; my biggest challenge is my butt and lower back sitting for long periods - making a large number of bullets in a low count mold has a number of death march qualities to it. I was gifted a 10-cavity H&G .38 wadcutter mold which drains a pot in an astonishingly short period of time - even accounting for re-melting and re-pouring the large sprues. It's a hefty, probably 8 pound chunk of iron, but I wish I had that format for my other molds.
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  10. #30
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    I generally cast at two different times of the year, early spring and late fall. When it warms up like it is now, not much casting gets done unless I am completely out of something. This is more like powder coating season.

    All the talk about 2 versus 6 and the weight is a consideration. I am 69 and in pretty good shape, I work out and lift weights but nothing prepares you for the rigors of casting. It is just doing something different your body is not accustomed to. Getting your pot at the right height, do you drop bullets in a bucket or on a table and at what height and what do you do with the sprues are all factors other than just 2 or 6 cavities. I am very right handed, usually consider my left hand a counterbalance weight but I have learned to run the pot lever and the mold with each hand to switch off. It avoids that repetitive motion syndrome. I have my system pretty well down. I usually do something around the garage as my pot heats the lead up and my mold(s) are on the hot plate. Get my fan set up and my wet towel ready to dump on and then get with it. By the time my 20lb Lee is about 3/4 empty I am ready for a break. This is a good time to dump more lead in the pot, sort the cast bullets and store them, rest the arms and get back to it. Rarely do I ever pour just one style/weight of bullet so if one is a bit more finicky than the other, it gets done first while I am a bit more fresh. Also for me, I have tried two molds but can't seem to find the advantage. About the time the mold gets that hot, I am slowing down anyway and setting mold on a wet towel for a second or two.

    Try some different things but for heavens sake, go with the 6 cavity Lees over the 2's. I have a couple two cavities and I find their quality to be extremely lacking. Best of luck

  11. #31
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    As others have said, a lot faster! Only why to go as far as I’m concerned!
    Keep your powder dry and watch your six !!

  12. #32
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    I have may 12-15 Lee 6 cav and about 6 Lee 2 cav.

    Every mold always pours a little different but on a sweet casting 6 cav using a good mold guide under a bottom pour the rate is much faster. Plus you don't fatigue yourself as quickly. Even my old Lyman/Ideal steel 4 cav are much faster than a 2 cav.

  13. #33
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    Wore out the old Lee 2x mold, just use 4x Accurate molds now for pistol. 2x for rifle. Had a Lee 6x 30/30 mold, sold it, too heavy for me, old. Retired so speed is no big thing.
    Whatever!

  14. #34
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    How can a 4 or 6 cavity mould not be faster than a 1 or 3 cavity mould?

    Fatigue? I use a bottom pour Lyman Mag 20 with a mould guide for the blocks to sit on while pouring and a piece of plywood or an asbestos M60 mitt for the blocks to sit on while the sprue cools. I get 600 +/- bullets per pot of alloy and the only thing that gets "fatigued" is mu hind end. from sitting 4 hours or so BTW; I'm 76 years old and casting has never been a chore for me.

    When using 1 and 2 cavity moulds I cast using 2 or 3 moulds......pour the alloy, set the mould down, fill the next mould, set that one down, pour the 3rd one set it down and by then the 1st moulds sprue is hard so I open the sprue plate (I wear thick gloves and open the sprue plate by hand), dump the bullets out, close the plate, fill the mould, set it down and move on to the next mould. That method can cast bullets pretty fast but still not as fast as with a 4 or 6 cavity mould. Sometimes with Lyman 4 cavity or Lee 6 cavity moulds I'll even run 2 moulds at the same time.

    Amazing how much faster the piles of bullets add up with the 4 and 6 cavity moulds as compared to 1 or 2 cavity moulds.
    Larry Gibson

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  15. #35
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    I started casting in 1968 with 4 cavity Lymans. In the 80's I fell in love with H&G 10 cavity molds. I still love 10 cavity molds. 1 or 2 cavity molds not so much but they are a necessary evil for BPCR or some of the other high end accuracy applications.
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  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy Gobeyond's Avatar
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    I’m with the guy who said quality not quantity. I do ladle casting one cavity or two. I appreciate the speed of the two. Twice as many. Competition shooters and authors agree, slow and easy produce the best boolits, one at a time. I spend two and half hours to make a hundred. I’m slow I get that, but I don’t get a wrinkle with a Lyman or my accurate. I just bought a four cavity mp but I think it’s going to be too heavy. Unless I can grueling through just 25 or thirty pours. If I can I’ll be sold.

    It weighs one kilogram empty on the end of two pond handles. Sure formula for tendonitis. Any tips to manage weight?

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have some very heavy H$G multi cavity (8-10) molds. I bought a 4x4" "Lab Jack" to hold up these molds while using my bottom pouring pot This lab jack is a arm saver using these awesome heavy molds. You can adjust mold height in seconds with a screw adjustment and makes the mold steady to pour. I secured the jack to the pot base with screws. The jack can be bought for around 40$ so shop around. For an older person like me this has made casting a lot easier. I hope this helps some one else out, so bring out that old heavy multi cavity mold again!!!

  18. #38
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    I'm not sure how much faster it is, but I have a heck of a time keeping the pot full of melt when using a 6-cav. Generally after 30-40mins I'm pausing to load it up with fresh ingots. Generally I cast around 500 at a time before fatigue sets in and I need a break. Which is usually around 10lbs of alloy. After that I either rest while it's melting and then resume when I'm back up to temp, or just allow it to melt, flux, and set aside for next time. Sometimes if I'm feeling particularly good (usually winter time when it isn't as hot in the shop) I'll keep going...

    But it is significantly faster than casting with a 2-cavity. While I can usually get a few hundred an hour out of a two cavity or a nice one cavity, the 6 cavity generally gets me close to 4-500 after 30-40 minutes. Some molds take longer though, especially HP molds. But a Lee 6-cav 452-228-2R will run the 20lb pot dry before an hour is up. I'd probably just start to be getting close to empty on a 125-130gr boolit when an hour approaches.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check