Circuit breaker problem when melting alloy

[RG1911]

(If this question belongs elsewhere, please tell me.)

Okay, it's been some time since I last loaded up my RCBS Pro-Melt and gathered together all the bits and pieces to cast bullets for my finicky Marlin 1895 in 45-70. In that time, we moved into a new house.

Within 10 minutes of turning on the pot, the 20A circuit breaker tripped, so I tried again with the same result. I moved the pot to a different breaker and the same thing happened.

I was chatting with a retired electrician who told me that the problem *probably* was caused by the Eton GFCIB120 GFCI breaker and I should replace it with a non-GFCI breaker. Apparently this is/was a known problem with the GFCI breakers. I bought an Eton CL120CS breaker and swapped it in. Power was not delivered to the workroom.

Now, the Eton GFCIB120 breaker has three wires running to it, while the CL120CS has a spot for only one wire (I used the black wire). I tried several searches to learn what the wires do, but with almost no success. The best was a breaker circuit diagram with labeling that was not explained.

So, after all that, the question is: Has anyone else experienced this and, if so, was the problem corrected and how?

Thank you for any light that can be shed on this.

Richard

[Winger Ed.]

I've had a lot of heavy use breakers 'wear out'.
Your 20A breaker might be wearing down to where its now a 16-17Amp or so now.
That may help explain why none of them have a lifetime guarantee.

I used to run a 120V welder and small air compressor a lot on a 20A circuit.
When it started tripping out the breaker, I'd put in a new one the same size and be good for another year or two.

If you've got GFI breakers-
they look for an excuse to trip and wear out pretty soon if you're right up to the edge of their rating.
I'd swap it for a regular one.
If it keeps tripping, you probably have some sort of short or problem with the pot.

[RG1911]

Thank you. I am trying to find a regular breaker, but useful online info has been absent. I have sent the question to Eton while I continue to look. Sadly, the young people working at the Ace hardware store will not be knowledgeable about this topic. When desperation strikes, I'll buy a replacement GFCI breaker and hope it works long enough for this round of casting, but those things are expensive.

Cheers, Richard

[super6]

The colors will tell the tail, I do not want to give advise that will burn your house down, Please be more clear on the wire colors.I had to replace several GFCI Breakers due to Interrupted flashing lighting on out door lighting. Think Christmas lighting!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I don't think your problem is circuit breaker related.
I suspect it's a combination of corrosion and moisture....and it seems to be specific with the RCBS Promelt.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...rcuit-Breakers

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

here is another one...but problem was power switch in Promelt.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...breakers-today

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

here is some more

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...o-melt-running

[Moleman-]

I bought an Eton CL120CS breaker and swapped it in. Power was not delivered to the workroom.

Now, the Eton GFCIB120 breaker has three wires running to it, while the CL120CS has a spot for only one wire (I used the black wire). I tried several searches to learn what the wires do, but with almost no success. The best was a breaker circuit diagram with labeling that was not explained.

So, after all that, the question is: Has anyone else experienced this and, if so, was the problem corrected and how?

Thank you for any light that can be shed on this.

Richard

I have a similar Square D GFI breaker for our pool and this is how it is set up. There should of been 1 black wire that goes to the work room, 1 short white (often stranded) wire coming out of the breaker (might be hardwired or screwed on) that goes to the neutral bus bar with all the other white wires, and 1 white wire coming from the work room that WAS screwed on the GFI breaker. The short white wire should of stayed with the GFI breaker you took out. The 20 amp breaker you put in shold only have one screw terminal that the black wire goes on. The other white wire that goes back to the work room needs to be screwed into the neutral bar on the same side of the panel.

Pic of GFI setup, Black arrow is black, Blue arrow is white stranded short "pigtail", and red arrow is white circut (this one goes to pool pump). For the non gfi breaker. black to breaker, white circut line to buss bar and lose the pigtail.

[45_Colt]

With a regular breaker, as you noticed there is 1 wire, the black.

Within the Romex that goes out to the wall socket, there is also a white and (usually) a ground (bare). Those two wires get tied to the big ground/neutral bar within the breaker box. Yes, they both get tied to the same point.

Done.

Note the ground/neutral bar is also tied to a stake driven into the earth. This is a ground/earth reference. It is usually right below the breaker box, but may also be sited outside.

As you noticed, be careful with GFI breakers/outlets. They like to trip just by looking at them funny. Never, ever, put one on a refrigerator or freezer. Unless you like thawed out food. And that is per the NEC.

45_Colt

[AbitNutz]

Ditto on the circuit breaker wearing out. Once an older breaker trips its rated capacity starts dropping fast. A new circuit breaker seems to be able to handle a couple of trips without too much of an issue...but trip an older breaker...and baby it's almost like flippin' fuse at that point.

[RG1911]

There is a white pigtail (don't know its function) permanently attached to the breaker. There is a black wire and a tan wire going to the breaker. One of the problem breakers is outlined in red. I found a wiring diagram on the Eton site, but its marking codes were not explained.

Since the regular breaker has only one terminal to which the black wire goes, something needs to be done with the tan wire. But the white pigtail performs some function, since no power was delivered until I had replaced it into the breaker. So it seems that I can't just cap it off.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Did you try plugging it in to a outlet that isn't GFCI or Arc fault protected, like is talked about in the first link I posted?

[Winger Ed.]

the white pigtail performs some function, ]

Somebody else can probably explain it better, but-
It connects to the neutral/ground bus bar.
That's how it works like a hair trigger to disconnect if it thinks there is a short.

[Moleman-]

the white pigtail performs some function, since no power was delivered until I had replaced it into the breaker. So it seems that I can't just cap it off.

The GFI breaker works by comparing the power on the hot an neutral side. If there is a differnce it trips the breaker. The neutral line has to pass through the breaker so it can be measured. Thats why the neutral line goes to the breaker and the pigtail goes to the bus bar to complete the circut.

I thought you were replacing it with a standard breaker?

[RG1911]

Did you try plugging it in to a outlet that isn't GFCI or Arc fault protected, like is talked about in the first link I posted?

I'm still looking for one that is accessible and 20A and enough room to safely run the pot. Almost everything is GFCI on the panel.

Thank you, Richard

[RG1911]

The GFI breaker works by comparing the power on the hot an neutral side. If there is a differnce it trips the breaker. The neutral line has to pass through the breaker so it can be measured. Thats why the neutral line goes to the breaker and the pigtail goes to the bus bar to complete the circut.

I thought you were replacing it with a standard breaker?

Yes, I'm trying to replace it with a standard breaker, but the one I bought has only one terminal so I've been trying to find how to squish three leads into one. Oddly, when I first started, I just removed the GFCI breaker, disconnected the black wire, attached that to the single terminal, and plugged the breaker in. Notice that the tan and white lines are still connected to the GFCI breaker that was just hanging there. Power was delivered to the workroom. Figuring that all was good, I completely disconnected the GFCI breaker, and capped the tan and white wires. Power was not, then, delivered to the workroom. It seems that I have to do something with those two wires. I'm beginning to think that there is no plug-and-play standard breaker.

Richard

[Winger Ed.]

I'm beginning to think that there is no plug-and-play standard breaker.

They are,,,, however; you aren't done yet.

That other wire (white/tan),,,, not the coil looking one one made onto the GFI breaker,
but the one from your home wiring screw clamped into it. Take the GFI off and set it aside.
Now connect the white that used to be on the GFI to the neutral bus bar with all the other white wires.

[Moleman-]

Read post 17. A standard single pole breaker doesn't have 3 wires going to it because it isn't looking for any shorts. A standard single pole breaker only cares about how many amps are going through it so it only has one terminal for a black/red wire.

The breaker you have circled in red is labeled "North Shop" Through that tape there is a white/tan wire, black wire and a bare ground wire. With the power cut to the panel:

1, loosen the screw on the bus bar where the pigtail (the wire coming out of the breaker) and remove it.

2, Remove the white/tan wire from the breaker and put it in the same spot on the bus bar as the pigtail was and tighten the screw.

3, Remove the black wire from the GFI breaker and put it on the standard breaker and clip in the standard breaker on your panel.

4, go cast some boolits

If this circut supplies power to any place where you're near water like a tub, shower, sink ect I'd replace your standard outlet there with a GFI outlet out of an abundance of caution. If you're not comfortable or unsure about what you're doing, call a professional.

[RG1911]

Did you try plugging it in to a outlet that isn't GFCI or Arc fault protected, like is talked about in the first link I posted?

Finally found a non-CFGI outlet I can access. The good news is that my pot, which started full, did not trip the breaker. The bad news is that after about 20 minutes, the pot turned off. I noticed after a few minutes and toggled the switch back on. The pot managed to finish melting the alloy but turned off again. I waited a while and toggled the switch. This time it stayed on only 2 minutes.

I am therefore assuming that something on the inside needs to be replaced. If so:

- Do you think RCBS will provide/sell the parts?
- Are the parts user-replaceable without being an electrician?
- Does the pot need to be emptied before disassembly/reassembly? (This might be a problem.)

Many thanks,
Richard

[RG1911]

Read post 17. A standard single pole breaker doesn't have 3 wires going to it because it isn't looking for any shorts. A standard single pole breaker only cares about how many amps are going through it so it only has one terminal for a black/red wire.

The breaker you have circled in red is labeled "North Shop" Through that tape there is a white/tan wire, black wire and a bare ground wire. With the power cut to the panel:

Thank you. There seems to be a little confusion about wire colors. The only white wire is the pigtail built in to the GFCI breaker. The remaining wires are 1 black and 1 tan

To make sure I understand:

1. The white pigtail that is built in to the GFCI breaker is removed from the panel.
2. The tan wire is attached to where the pigtail had been attached; this is the neutral bus bar mentioned in post 17.
3. The black wire is attached to the new breaker's terminal and
4. The breaker is snapped into its slot.

Thank you,
Richard