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Thread: 38 spl wadcutter loads

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    Gunslinger1911's Avatar
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    38 spl wadcutter loads

    Just went through the "75,000 WC" post - still a great read !!

    Concerning "wadcutter" brass :
    1) Is the Starline 38 spl brass really cut deep for flush seating WC ?
    2) Could a fella use an inside neck reamer of the correct size to deepen reg brass ?
    3) If using a revolver, is there any reason to not just seat WC further out ? (I don't have a S&W 52 - YET !)
    4) Using a Python actually, so can you seat flush in 357 brass ?

    Thanks in advance for any insight.
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  2. #2
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    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    I never knew there was a difference in wadcutter brass or regular for about 30 years.
    If it makes a difference, I'm not smart enough or good enough of a shooter to tell.

    The only reason I don't use the crimp groove on them that leaves a little sticking out is when I load for a S&W model 52 auto.
    Unless they're seated flush with the case mouth, they don't want to feed.

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    This might start a firestorm of controversy, but in my experience the reloading of wadcutter bullets into brass that was specifically designed for it, or into regular brass that had originally been factory loaded with something else proved inconsequential at PPC distances to 25 yds. A true .38 Spec. wadcutter bullet is 148 gr., hollow base or double ended, +/- 2.5 gr. of Bullseye and is not intended for longer range accuracy, although no doubt there are those who claim it to be the ideal 100 yd. deer cartridge. The importance of wadcutter-designed brass is an overblown controversy that has existed far too long and which had little to no validity to start with.

    DG

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    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    I shot a LOT of 358495 button nose wadcutters in .357 brass crimped in the crimp groove. 4.5 to 5.0 of 231 worked well. Now I would probably substitute promo or red dot starting at 3.5 grains and working up or down listening to the gun.

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  5. #5
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    OK. thanks guys. It's as I suspected, I'm over thinking it.

    I shall do penance for my sin and try to catch up to 75,000 + rounds
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  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy Driver man's Avatar
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    I use Starline brass 38 Special and shoot DEWC flush seated ok but not 38 Special +P as it tapers internally.
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    I have had a ton of wc brass and think it made a slight difference. Being 13 months away from age 70 it makes little difference now.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

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    Martin Luber has it right.
    If you’re not bulging the case at the boolit base you’re fine.

    If wadcutter brass makes a difference on your target, you’re not going to be the guy asking, but will be the guy that gets asked.

    Seating depth…you can seat out as far as your revolver will chamber or as short as flush. I use both and lots of seating depths in between depending. Of course you’ll need to adjust the powder charge to suit the reduced or expanded case capacity.

    I’ve played with deep seating wadcutters for a snubby to get the last bit of boolit base travel to get the last bit of velocity. And I’ve seated long to give as much case capacity for slow powder to get maximum velocity. And I’ve discovered it’s just plain easier to load the wadcutter boolits into 357 cases and revolvers and let the velocity rip!
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    A few years ago when I was getting started in loading .38 Special WC, I measured a lot of brass. All of the Starline I measured was 0.010" deep enough to seat a 148 WC.

    Alas, my ancient RCBS expander wasn't up to the task with run of the mill "once fired" brass from a gun show. I purchased a Lyman M-die that fixed my problem. And a few months later I refound the set of Lyman .38/.357 dies that I had bought in a box of stuff at an auction.

    Now the lonely M-die lives in the box with my .35 Remington dies.

    Robert

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy Tall's Avatar
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    Never had any "wadcutter" brass. I just load the brass I have. No issues. Lots of wadcutters loaded. Some hollow based, some double ended plated, some powder coated. All shot fine.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    One of the fun things about seating solid base wadcutters in one of the grease grooves for revolver use is, you can use the same powder charge as a semiwadcutter boolit seated in it's crimp groove since the internal capacity will be the same. You do need to make sure the boolit is sized to fit into the throats on your cylinder.
    I tried some this way. It was necessary to push them all the way into the cylinder since they were a tight fit in the throats of my revolver. No fast reloads with this setup but the accuracy was wonderful.
    I found my accuracy was improved when using wadcutter brass for my target loads. I suspect this was due to having sorted and matched brass as much as anything else.
    That was all quite some years ago. At age 71 now and developing cataracts and glaucoma, I no longer see any real differences in group size no matter how capable the guns and loads are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    This might start a firestorm of controversy, but in my experience the reloading of wadcutter bullets into brass that was specifically designed for it, or into regular brass that had originally been factory loaded with something else proved inconsequential at PPC distances to 25 yds. A true .38 Spec. wadcutter bullet is 148 gr., hollow base or double ended, +/- 2.5 gr. of Bullseye and is not intended for longer range accuracy, although no doubt there are those who claim it to be the ideal 100 yd. deer cartridge. The importance of wadcutter-designed brass is an overblown controversy that has existed far too long and which had little to no validity to start with.

    DG
    Once again, Der Gebirgsjager is, imho, 101% right on! In my OCD Bullseye shooting years I loaded a zillion (give or take a very few) .38 S&W Special cases for my (no-dash) S & W Model 52, and while I only used CCI primers, 2.7 grains of Bullseye powder, and my cast H&G #527 mould bullets with a quality control criteria of +/- 1 grain -- I used any brass I could scrounge, take out of trash buckets at range, or even purchase -- both new and quite, quite fired. The trophies I acquired were NOT for MY good shooting -- just that other guys were a tad less lucky than I was...
    The only three things I really kind of paid attention to were the ability of brass to hold bullet; no splits; and, no "loose" primer pockets. This was before the new kid on the block -- wet, powder tumbling which really cleans cases -- became the thing to use. My brass generally spent several hours in my Thumler's Tumbler, where I'd have to sometimes pick media from primer pocket or inside cases...
    geo

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Why not load the wc bullets long???

    Takes all the yay/nay case comparability out of play. Seating the wc's long will also aid in accuracy when using the 38spl cases in a 357mag.

  14. #14
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    All great info guys - thanks !!!

    Forrest; loading long was my thought for my Smith 27 and Python, but ........ my buddy has a Smith 52, he has to seat flush.
    He has the classy gun, I get ease of loading.
    Cogno, Ergo, Boom

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  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy Kai's Avatar
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    I have no idea how much 38 spcl brass I have but it's probly in the neighborhood of a few thousand all in one big tub. No idea how many headstamps or number of firings. When it's time to load I grab a few handfuls, add 2.5gr bullseye, and stuff a lyman 35863 seated flush with a slight crimp. These are fired from s&w 52, 14, 19, 66, 27. No issues and accuracy is superb. I have several boxes of factory winchester midrange from back in the day. Only thing special about that brass is a canelure. No other difference from other 38spcl brass.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    I can't fathom NOT seating any revolver bullet far enough out so that part of the full diameter it is into the throat, this keeping it aligned concentrically. Same as I do for my cast bullet rifles. That said, the best load I ever had for my Officer's Model Colt was a semi-wadcutter, and from then on I stopped loading full wadcutters of any sort.
    Cognitive Dissident

  17. #17
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    I've separated out WC brass which, I believe, are brass with 2 crimp lines. I've not noticed a difference in accuracy using target loads of Red Dot in my Target Masterpiece over other types of brass.
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  18. #18
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    Typically , in revolvers , you will get a little better accuracy by Not loading the WC flush .
    Leave the top driving band exposed and crimp in the crimp groove below the top driving band .
    The theory is this centers the round in the chamber , the case is not slightly tilted down but parallel and more in line with the bore . I just read a Shooting Times Test and the more accurate load wasn't flush in the revolvers .

    The winning powder charge was 2.7 grs. Bullseye !
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  19. #19
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    An interesting discussion. There is accuracy and then there is ACCURACY.

    Even when I was young and could shoot relatively well, when we wanted to determine ACCUACY, we used a Ransom Rest and 50 shot groups.

    I was fortunate to shoot with some Master Class Bullseye shooters and I cannot remember anyone who did not use the Ransom Rest. They did their accuracy work at 50 yards.

    I cannot answer the question posed. When I was shooting Bullseye, I had 2000 cases and they were all Dominion (CIL) wadcutter cases I got from a guy who gave me a good deal as he knew I was poor. All my testing was with that brass.

    In practical terms, I doubt brass has much affect or at least enough of a difference to be seen by most pistol shooters. I no longer sort pistol brass. I have over 5000 cases and am too lazy to sort them. But I cannot shoot well enough for it to matter either. Getting old sucks.
    Don Verna


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    I've separated out WC brass which, I believe, are brass with 2 crimp lines. I've not noticed a difference in accuracy using target loads of Red Dot in my Target Masterpiece over other types of brass.
    Winchester and Remington WC brass have the two cannelure grooves. Federal has a single cannelure about 1/3 of the way down. I have seen Hornaday WC brass but don't ever have enough of it to segregate it. Fiocchi is the same.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check