45 Colt working loads in modern Ubertis

[justindad]

Accurate 5744 can get a 255 grain boolit to 1,000 fps with pressures under 14ksi.
*
https://ramshot.com/wp-content/uploa...ide8.0_WEB.pdf

[TXTad]

Here is some info which may help. Note velocities are in Contender pistol. Revolver velocity is about 100 fps less.

Attachment 314475Attachment 314476

Outpost75, I bet these data are interesting, but the images are too small to read.

[BoBSavage]

Outpost75, I bet these data are interesting, but the images are too small to read.

Click on these two, they should open up a bit bigger

[jonp]

Like !

The Italians do not use any super steels , they are no stroger than a SAA Colt ...
as such , stay with level-1 (Tier 1) Loads .
Take Char-Gar's advice ... he knows !
A 255 gr. SWC - 8.5 grs. Unique will give about 850 fps , that's a heck of a load .
Gary

Agreed +1.

[curioushooter]

FYI Alliant lists 250 grain LSWC with 9.5 grans of unique. If this velocity data is trustworthy then that certainly qualifies as a working load. I'd expect 900 FPS from a 4.5" and cylinder gap.

This is of course a SAAMI load. And therefore 8.5 grains is certainly LESS than full SAAMI pressure. Allliant lists 8.5 grains of unique with a 230 grain LSWC as a "cowboy" load.

All Ubertis are CIP proofed (like other European made arms) and CIP's testing standards seem more rigorous to me than SAAMI. For example in the magnum cartridges the CIP standard still runs at full 40k pressures, not the reduced standards after 1995. My Uberti carries a CIP proof mark.

It is also worth noting that Brian Pearce considers the 44 special Ubertis capable of "class II" loads--more than SAAMI--but less than the Keith type loads. Handloader 312 (Feb-March 2018, page 45). 8.5 grains of unique propel a 250 grain cast LSWC in 44 special to over 1000 FPS (this is a class II load). I would think the same weight bullet in 45 colt would do the same at lower pressure due to the greater surface area/case volume. The "skeeter" load (44 special, 429421, 7.5 grains Unique) is in fact a low-end "class II" load.

Has anyone any real world examples of SAAMI max 45 colt loads actually doing any harm to modern Ubertis?

The most potent SAMMI listed load for 45 colt seems to be Herco with 9.5 grains pushing 250 grain LSWC to over 1000 FPS. It seems odd to me that Unique would be less velocity with the same charge and bullet here, as Herco is a slower powder. Is this erroneous data?

[justindad]

It seems odd when load manuals do not agree in regards to a max charge for a particular powder and bullet weight. I can’t explain why Herco is giving more velocity than Unique. However, I am quite sure that applying theory without empirical data to confirm said theory is more dangerous than most people are willing to acknowledge. Humility will spare your fingers.
*
If someone blows up their gun, will Mr. Pearce be held accountable? Would the person be sufficiently embarrassed so as to not post that experience on the internet? I am not willing to put my faith in a mere technical writer when dismemberment is on the line.

[Walks]

If ya wanna hot load. 45Colt, get a. 44Mag.
You'll never have to separate your loads and worry about wrong ammo in a wrong gun..
I gave up on .45Colt loads hotter then SAAMI Spec a Loong time ago.
My Dad always loaded His Colts a bit lighter then the so called factory equivalent load of 8.5grs Unique under a 255gr #454424 or 9.0grs Unique under a 250gr #454190.
I got better accuracy out of 8.0grs Unique with either bullet for paper punching or busting tin cans.

Besides, everyone that has a Colt SAA or clone should have a Ruger too.

[Tall]

If ya wanna hot load. 45Colt, get a. 44Mag.

Besides, everyone that has a Colt SAA or clone should have a Ruger too.

I do not agree. The Ruger products are just too shabby for my liking. I've had several over the years and always tired of the industrial looking finish on them. I do agree with the statement of if you want to load hotter then get a 44 Magnum. No question there.

[dondiego]

I do not agree. The Ruger products are just too shabby for my liking. I've had several over the years and always tired of the industrial looking finish on them. I do agree with the statement of if you want to load hotter then get a 44 Magnum. No question there.

You can always over pay to have the finish look real cool, like with Turnbull, but you can't make a Colt that is as strong and rugged as a Ruger.

[Tall]

You can always over pay to have the finish look real cool, like with Turnbull, but you can't make a Colt that is as strong and rugged as a Ruger.

OK you can have all of them. I won't be interested.

[Iwsbull]

Then why chime in, twice.
I know everyone has different opinions as to who they use as a guide, some go strictly by the book and others will follow some of the more popular writers. There also seems to be a bit of mystery around the Italian clones proofing as I have read several different claims. I know a good many people go up to tier 2 and have had no adverse effects so far but that could all change the next shot. Understand your risks.

[Tall]

Then why chime in, twice.
I know everyone has different opinions as to who they use as a guide, some go strictly by the book and others will follow some of the more popular writers. There also seems to be a bit of mystery around the Italian clones proofing as I have read several different claims. I know a good many people go up to tier 2 and have had no adverse effects so far but that could all change the next shot. Understand your risks.

I have two Uberti's. The one is 44 Special. The other is 44 WCF caliber. Both are loaded for accuracy. Velocity is not important and neither are max loads. I find that what is listed in reloading manuals is useful and usable. The Italians make a great product usually. I do not currently own a Pietta but it might happen.

[BoBSavage]

As far as strength is concerned, Uberti offers 45 ACP cylinders for their 45 Colt revolvers. There is no difference in construction from the words of Uberti reps. Cylinder wall thickness is cylinder wall thickness!

The key here is to load the 45 Colt for pressures, not velocity, and deal with what velocity and accuracy that pressure produces. The faster the burn rate of the powder used, the more than likely you are to exceed max pressures before reaching the desired velocity.

From Lyman's 49th manual, pages 389-390.
Settling on a Speer 230gr #4681 swaged lead bullet, there is a published that calls for 9.6gr of Unique that reports 1,028fps at 12,000cup from a 7 1/2" Universal Receiver and a Ruger BlackHawk (1:16" twist..451" groove). THIS LOAD IS NOT VALID WITH THE USE OF ANY OTHER BULLET OR WEIGHT.

I'll post it again for those that may have overlooked it. Wonder if Lyman is wrong?

[Tall]

I'll post it again for those that may have overlooked it. Wonder if Lyman is wrong?

The Alliant website says the max load of Unique with a 7.5" barrel is 9.5 grains using a 250 grain bullet at 930 FPS so it looks reasonable to me that a lighter projectile in a shorter barrel would go a little faster in a universal receiver with no barrel to cylinder gap.

[Larry Gibson]

Originally Posted by BoBSavage View Post
As far as strength is concerned, Uberti offers 45 ACP cylinders for their 45 Colt revolvers. There is no difference in construction from the words of Uberti reps. Cylinder wall thickness is cylinder wall thickness!

The key here is to load the 45 Colt for pressures, not velocity, and deal with what velocity and accuracy that pressure produces. The faster the burn rate of the powder used, the more than likely you are to exceed max pressures before reaching the desired velocity.

From Lyman's 49th manual, pages 389-390.
Settling on a Speer 230gr #4681 swaged lead bullet, there is a published that calls for 9.6gr of Unique that reports 1,028fps at 12,000cup from a 7 1/2" Universal Receiver and a Ruger BlackHawk (1:16" twist..451" groove). THIS LOAD IS NOT VALID WITH THE USE OF ANY OTHER BULLET OR WEIGHT.

"I'll post it again for those that may have overlooked it. Wonder if Lyman is wrong?"

I've pressure tested the Lee 452-230-TC [235 gr with my alloy] over 8.5 gr of Alliant Unique. Pressure ran 14,500 psi (not CUP) and velocity was 1072 out of my test 10" barrel. another gr of Unique would probably put it up into the 18,000 psi range which is commensurate with 45 Colt data for use in Colt SAs and Uberti's. Ergo I do not see where Lyman's data is out of line for use as a Tier I max load.

[kaiser]

I once owned a (large frame) Ruger vaquero in a .45 Colt; and still have a Beretta (Uberti) and cimarron in the same caliber. I got rid of the Ruger because I was afraid I might mix up my "over max" loads in my clones! Additionally, I found those extra pressure loads were not very much fun to shoot and the pistol that shot them was bigger than I cared to "pack". I figured if the .45 Colt was issued to soldiers to drop a horse with black powder loads, it was plenty powerful enough for my purposes. I stopped loading to max practically everything in my inventory long ago, except my Magnums (only have one now!) because I seldom found the best accuracy to reside at the maximum level. Many calibers are limited to lower pressure levels, such as the 30/06, .250 Savage, etc., because of the age and materials used in the firearms of their day. Anytime you load a round to the maximum using current reloading data of today, the brand of brass, bullet weight, and "lot" of powder you use will determine what your firearms maximum really is! Manufactures cannot cover every situation where mixing of brands of components are used, much less the condition of the firearm that is being tested. 14,000psi (US) is pretty low, and 15,900 CIP (EU) is not much more - I'll wager that the most accurate and most pleasant loads to fire will not exceed either. "Bragging Rights" should be your "bug eye" groups - not your chronograph readings! My .02

[willy]

For the record my standard load for the 45 colt is 8.5 gr. Unique with a 255 gr.swc
Been shooting it in Uberti single actions since late 1970’s
So far,,so good.

[grouchy leatherneck]

While you're on the topic of psi for .45 Colt loads. I have a Uberti Cattleman .45 Colt with a 5.5 inch barrel and a .45 Colt Rossi 92. Would the 20 grains of IMR 4227 with a 250-255 grain swc or rnfp be ok in both? Or would that load be a little too much psi for the Cattleman? I want a good potent load that will work in both. Thanks.

[Outpost75]

Click on these two, they should open up a bit bigger

Thank you for posting the larger file sizes from Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

On the above data sheets the column of velocity for each shot, averages, ES and SDs are from my Oehler M35P the screens of which were right in front of the M43 screens . The readings were very consistent between the two.