45 Colt working loads in modern Ubertis

[curioushooter]

Are modern Ubertis up to the job of 900-1000 FPS 255 grain cast 45 Colt loads? Does anyone pet loads in this neighborhood?

It seems to me the weak point of the SAA is the narrow chamber walls under the bolt stop cut.

I am a huge fan of the so called Skeeter load in 44special of 255 grain ~ 950 FPS.

[jreidthompson1]

Yes. Search the site and internet for 45 colt tier 2 loads. There's a good bit of information on these and articles referencing them onsite and on the web

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[Char-Gar]

The metal in these Italian clones is quite soft. I have had to replace several internal parts in mine. Stick to original loads of 6.5/Bullseye or 8.5/Unique and all will be good, nothing you hit will ever notice the slight loss of velocity. These handguns are not built to be hotrodded.

[Kosh75287]

How long is the barrel on your revolver?
Alliant lists 15.4/2400/255 gr. Speer LSWC as a maximum load (i.e., creates pressures no higher than SAAMI max average pressure). This load develops 972 f/s from their 5.5", probably unvented test barrel. This is ~100 f/s faster than the original factory load (255 gr. at 860 f/s), which is already quite fierce on the receiving end.
Since Alliant has some apparent religious restriction against publishing date for .45 Colt, used in modern, much stronger firearms than the Pre-WWI Colt Single Action Army revolvers, you'll need to look elsewhere for more emphatic data. Worry not, for such data is fairly easily found.
I ask about your revolver's barrel length, because 2400 burns somewhat slower than, and tends to deliver better velocities than Unique or Red Dot loads, in revolvers that are 5.5" or longer. In no magnum pistol hand load of any caliber have I ever been able to get 2400 to burn completely in a 6" barrel. I have managed to make it burn KINDA completely in my 7.5" .45 Colt caliber Redhawk, and SOMEwhat completely in a 8 & 3/8" barreled .44 Magnum.
The take-away is that IF your revolver's barrel is 5.5" or longer, you might consider starting with 14.6/2400/255 gr. (I use 255 gr. RNFPs) and work up until you reach your desired velocity, or the 15.4/2400/255 gr. maximum (for old guns). If the barrel on your revolver is under 5.5", Alliant's max load might not deliver as much velocity as the 6.5/Red Dot/255 gr. or 8.5/Unique/255 gr. loads. If you were to exceed Alliant's max load by 0.1-0.3 gr. I doubt that your Uberti would immediately become a grenade. BUT, as Char-Gar pointed out, the steel in the Ubertis CAN be on the softer side, so higher pressures mean faster wear, at minimum.

[gwpercle]

The metal in these Italian clones is quite soft. I have had to replace several internal parts in mine. Stick to original loads of 6.5/Bullseye or 8.5/Unique and all will be good, nothing you hit will ever notice the slight loss of velocity. These handguns are not built to be hotrodded.

Like !

The Italians do not use any super steels , they are no stroger than a SAA Colt ...
as such , stay with level-1 (Tier 1) Loads .
Take Char-Gar's advice ... he knows !
A 255 gr. SWC - 8.5 grs. Unique will give about 850 fps , that's a heck of a load .
Gary

[Kosh75287]

I concur with GWPercle. The load I make most often for .45 Colt revolvers is 8.0/Unique/255 RNFP. It clocks 825 + 25 f/s, from most revolvers (the REAL ones, not the .410/.45 Colt miscarriages of gun manufacturing), and seems to shoot very accurately in all of them. MY load is a step down from GWPercle's load, and is probably attendantly lower in pressure. It dispatches coyotes and bobcats quite well, and I would expect it to work similarly on "two-legged" vermin.

[Outpost75]

The 8.5 Unique load as pressure tested by Larry Gibson exceeds the SAAMI for the .45 Colt and approximates the pressure level of .45 ACP. Still safe, but absolutely a full charge load not to be exceeded. A charge of 7.5 grains of Bullseye performs similarly. I standardized on 7 grains of Bullseye with a 260-grain bullet and find it highly satisfactory. I could never get #2400 to burn completely in .45 Colt loads at safe pressures for the SAA, 15.5 grains, and don t recommend it because unburned powder granules jam up the action.

[Stopsign32v]

8gr of Unique behind a 250gr is a very pleasant shooting load

[justindad]

The screws come loose in my Uberti .45 SAA clone when I am near max loads. My Uberti has a proof pressure mark consistent with CIP pressure, which is much less than those tier 2 loads. I once considered putting thread locker on my screws so I could push the pressure up to CIP. I chose not to, because the Engineer at Uberti probably has a reason for not fixing those screws… I know I’ve done things like to protect customers in my machine designs. Besides, once you go above max SAAMI loads, do you really know if you’re exceeding CIP pressures?
*
Don’t listen to anybody telling you to load these things to a tier 2 pressure, unless they can give you life test data proving the load is safe. Anything besides real life test data is deceit.

[jreidthompson1]

For what its worth, see the article from Handloader Magazine April/May 2022 and make your own decisions.

.45 Colt +P Medium Frame Sixguns (Pet Loads)

Modern Revolvers Can Increase Performance

Feature By: Brian Pearce | April, 22

It specifically states that Ubertis made since 1990 are safe with the loads in the article. Per the article this is based on

"More than a decade ago, I was hired by a well-known firearms manufacturer to destruction-test sixguns, to determine the pressure level for each that would cause excess stress, damage and ultimately, their destruction (catastrophic failure). The results were truly fascinating. However, when I shared some of those results with a fellow gun writer, he asked, “What are you going to do with that information? You certainly can’t share it with readers.” He was right, because let’s say that a given sixgun has a catastrophic failure at a given pressure, there will always be the occasional handloader that assumes his gun will “be safe” with loads that are just slightly below that figure, which is never correct, as there is virtually no margin of safety! Nonetheless, the above experiments and tests support the information provided herein."

Basically states that these revolvers can handle pressure of 23000psi and provides load data for various bullets/ weights / powders in the article.

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[BoBSavage]

As far as strength is concerned, Uberti offers 45 ACP cylinders for their 45 Colt revolvers. There is no difference in construction from the words of Uberti reps. Cylinder wall thickness is cylinder wall thickness!

The key here is to load the 45 Colt for pressures, not velocity, and deal with what velocity and accuracy that pressure produces. The faster the burn rate of the powder used, the more than likely you are to exceed max pressures before reaching the desired velocity.

From Lyman's 49th manual, pages 389-390.
Settling on a Speer 230gr #4681 swaged lead bullet, there is a published that calls for 9.6gr of Unique that reports 1,028fps at 12,000cup from a 7 1/2" Universal Receiver and a Ruger BlackHawk (1:16" twist..451" groove). THIS LOAD IS NOT VALID WITH THE USE OF ANY OTHER BULLET OR WEIGHT.

[Kosh75287]

9.6 grains of what? Unique?

[justindad]

A single cycle failure means that if you cut your pressures by 50% you still risk catastrophic failure later on due to fatigue. A single sample failure says absolutely nothing about lot-to-lot material variations, which can have another significant impact on the safety of a particular load. A .45 Colt case is not a .45ACP case and the difference matters. The mechanics of material failure is way beyond the scope of this forum and the technical writers at Handloader.
*
Uberti qualifies .45 SAA clones (made in Europe) to the CIP pressure. They understand the fatigue limits and the material & dimensional variances far more than anyone telling you to go to 23ksi.
*
If you are eager to take bad advice, you risk losing your fingers.

[Outpost75]

Here is some info which may help. Note velocities are in Contender pistol. Revolver velocity is about 100 fps less.

[Stopsign32v]

If you're going to ruin a perfectly good Uberti please make sure it isn't an old 4 clicker!

[Tall]

I used to be in my 20's and was all about maximum velocities and using data from Elmer Keith's writings. Everything I loaded was a maximum velocity load with heaping amounts of 2400.

Somehow I survived all that and now I load for accuracy. At 65 I am more into 45 Colt loads with 7 grains of 231 powder pushing a Berry's plated 250 grain bullet. It's accurate and won't blow up your revolver.

[gc45]

I used to be in my 20's and was all about maximum velocities and using data from Elmer Keith's writings. Everything I loaded was a maximum velocity load with heaping amounts of 2400.

Somehow I survived all that and now I load for accuracy. At 65 I am more into 45 Colt loads with 7 grains of 231 powder pushing a Berry's plated 250 grain bullet. It's accurate and won't blow up your revolver.

This makes the most sense. Never could understand pushing Uberti anything very hard..The Italian steel is soft, just drill a hole in it some time and you too will know, as least when compared to many other countries products. Would I own a Uberti 45 Colt? yes, but my loads would be tier one only.

[Stopsign32v]

Someone needs a Ruger 45 Colt

[35 Rem]

I would say "NO" they are not. I have two Uberti SAA's in 45 Colt both with 4 3/4" barrels. I don't worry about the velocity as I want to shoot safely. I use standard loads for the old Colts and let the velocity fall where it may. My favorite load uses WW 231 and the Lee 255gr RFN and gives 775 ft/sec. The 8.4 gr Unique load under the RCBS 45-270-SAA bullet only results in 675 ft/sec which is a bit of a head scratcher for me but I'm not going to risk blowing up my gun or killing myself to get more. I have a 44 Mag Super Blackhawk when more power is needed.

[Larry Gibson]

Are modern Ubertis up to the job of 900-1000 FPS 255 grain cast 45 Colt loads? Does anyone pet loads in this neighborhood?

It seems to me the weak point of the SAA is the narrow chamber walls under the bolt stop cut.

I am a huge fan of the so called Skeeter load in 44special of 255 grain ~ 950 FPS.

I have two Uberti SAs; a 5 1/2" Artillery model I've had since the early '90s [it was the featured revolver in a G&A article back then] and a 4 3/4" Evil Roy I got from Gene [Evil Roy]. I also have an Uberti 45 ACP cylinder for the Evil Roy. I've bult several thousand rounds through the Artillery and a thousand or so each of 45 Colt and 45 ACP through the Evil Roy. While I have shot "cowboy" SASS level loads in both they were few and in testing only. For my own pleasure I use "standard" tier I level loads and they give plenty of power in the velocity range you are looking for.

I also have thoroughly pressure tested these loads [Oehler m43 PBL with a Contender test barrel] and while a couple exceed the SAAMI MAP of 14,000 psi none of the 45 Colt loads exceed 18,000 psi. One of the 45 ACP loads [these are my standard loads fo use in my M1911s and my S&W M197/25 revolver] does run close to 19,000 psi. As the loads listed give plenty of power in both Uberti's I find no need to shoot tier II level 45 Colt loads or even +P level 45 ACP loads of 23,000 psi +/-.

My 45 Colt loads;

Lee 452-200-RF [205 gr] cast of softer alloy seated to OAL of 1.557" over 7.3 gr Bullseye in Winchester cases with WLP primer. PSI runs 13,5 - 14,000 psi. Velocity is 975 fps in the Artillery and 944 fps in the Evil Roy. Accuracy is excellent. This load also runs 1200 fps out of my Uberti M73 lever rifle w/20" barrel. With 7.2 gr of 700X the results are identical.

Lee 452-230-TC [235 gr] cast of softer alloy seated to OAL of 1.598" over 7 gr Bullseye in Winchester cases with WLP primer. PSI runs 14,700 psi. Velocity is 890 fps in the Artillery and 855 fps in the Evil Roy. Accuracy is excellent. Runs 1100 fps out of the M73.

Lyman 454190 at OAL 1.600" or 454424 at OAL 1.575" cast of softer alloy [both run 254 gr] over 8.5 gr of Unique [Hercules or Alliant] in Winchester cases with WLP primers. PSI runs 17,5 - 18,000 psi. Velocity runs 853 fps out of the Artillery and 800 fps out of the Evil Roy.

45 ACP loads;

Lee 452-205-SWC (H&G #68 copy) cast with 14 +/- BHN alloy over 5 gr of Bullseye in mixed cases [commercial & milsurp] with WLP primers. PSI runs 16,0 - 17,000 +/-. Velocity runs 872 fps in the Evil Roy. accuracy is excellent. My standard practice load for use in my M1911s.

Lee 452-230-TC cast with BHN of 14+/- over 5 gr of Bullseye in R-P cases with WLP primers. PSI runs 18,7 - 18,900 psi. Velocity runs 866 fps in the Evil Roy.