high HP crate engines

[Rickf1985]

Getting back to cars, I went to a VW swap meet and some racing at Maple Grove raceway in Pa. yesterday. There were street driven Jetta's turning 10's with one in the 8's!! Beetles were turning low to mid 10's. Times have certainly changed. First off you never would have been able to drive a car like that on the street back then but the 8 second Jetta looked pretty close to stock, the ultimate sleeper. It was turning probably 10,000 rpm through compound turbos!! RPM equals speed if you can build an engine that will stay together. I have a video of it but I have no idea how to convey that here. The best part, the car he was going up against was having problems at the line and could not get past the burnout box and the starter waited WAY to long before finally send him down as a bye. So he ran on tires that had cool off from his burnout and you could hear them breaking loose going down the track, and still turned high 8's.

[Lloyd Smale]

i was as good as anyone around here on a motocross track but those crotch rockets and a 100mph one hard pavement made me nervous. on the streets for me it was kicked back on a harley with no where to go in a hurry. ive had many harleys my favorites were the flh's but i liked soft tails too. just sold the last one ill probably ever own to my son in law or should say i gave it to him trading it for an old 12 foot fishing boat with an ancient 4 hp Evinrude that one was a 2017 soft tail classic with only about 5k on it. i think i road it three times last year

[Lloyd Smale]

Getting back to cars, I went to a VW swap meet and some racing at Maple Grove raceway in Pa. yesterday. There were street driven Jetta's turning 10's with one in the 8's!! Beetles were turning low to mid 10's. Times have certainly changed. First off you never would have been able to drive a car like that on the street back then but the 8 second Jetta looked pretty close to stock, the ultimate sleeper. It was turning probably 10,000 rpm through compound turbos!! RPM equals speed if you can build an engine that will stay together. I have a video of it but I have no idea how to convey that here. The best part, the car he was going up against was having problems at the line and could not get past the burnout box and the starter waited WAY to long before finally send him down as a bye. So he ran on tires that had cool off from his burnout and you could hear them breaking loose going down the track, and still turned high 8's.

it amazes me what they can get out o bug motor today but the there FAR from what Ferdinand created back in the 40s. like you said as long as the heads stay on and the piston rods stay in the block you can shove enough air or nitrous into even a 4cyl motor and create crazy power levels. can you imagine the money you could have made with even a high 12 second vw

[MaryB]

Getting back to cars, I went to a VW swap meet and some racing at Maple Grove raceway in Pa. yesterday. There were street driven Jetta's turning 10's with one in the 8's!! Beetles were turning low to mid 10's. Times have certainly changed. First off you never would have been able to drive a car like that on the street back then but the 8 second Jetta looked pretty close to stock, the ultimate sleeper. It was turning probably 10,000 rpm through compound turbos!! RPM equals speed if you can build an engine that will stay together. I have a video of it but I have no idea how to convey that here. The best part, the car he was going up against was having problems at the line and could not get past the burnout box and the starter waited WAY to long before finally send him down as a bye. So he ran on tires that had cool off from his burnout and you could hear them breaking loose going down the track, and still turned high 8's.

1/4 or 1/8 mile? A lot of racing is 1/8 mile these days...

[Lloyd Smale]

1/4 or 1/8 mile? A lot of racing is 1/8 mile these days...

just about all street racing today is 1/8 mile

[MaryB]

just about all street racing today is 1/8 mile

Even a lot of track events... no prep races are 1/8 mile...

[Lloyd Smale]

Even a lot of track events... no prep races are 1/8 mile...

ya all that street outlaw stuff is 1/8 mile. someone told me to build a winning quarter mile car costs 50 percent more to build and keeping it going cost half as much because every race is only abusing them half as long and the big savings comes from half of the high rpm abuse on a motor

[Rickf1985]

All the times I gave were 1/4 mile. They were running both. It was confusing too since you did not know what the run was until the time popped up and it would pop up before they hit the 1/4 mile mark. This wasn't a fully sanctioned event so it was kind of a mix of everything. They had junior dragsters that were running 1/8 mile, 90 MPH in the 1/8 in a dragster powered be a one cylinder Briggs and Stratton motor!!!!! How much more fun can a kid have? And how broke can dad get buying lawn mower engine parts!!!

[TD1886]

I remember when Pontiac came out with that Sprint with the performance six cylinder with the over head cam and a 4 barrel carb. It was supposed to be really fast in 1/8 mile. I didn't have diddy squat trouble dusting those off with small block Chevys!

[Lloyd Smale]

my grandpa bought a 68 tempest with that motor. for a 6 back then it did pretty well. but as to beating v8s? they maybe could hang with 289,307,318 2brls. it did have a unique sound though

[TD1886]

my grandpa bought a 68 tempest with that motor. for a 6 back then it did pretty well. but as to beating v8s? they maybe could hang with 289,307,318 2brls. it did have a unique sound though

I heard the cam bearings wore real fast. I can't remember how that cam was set up. Did it ride in the cover?

[Lloyd Smale]

I heard the cam bearings wore real fast. I can't remember how that cam was set up. Did it ride in the cover?

dont remember much about it. i know he wasnt to impressed said it spent most of its first year at the dealership and was the most unreliable car he ever owned. it was a long time ago and i was just a teen then but remember him complaining about cam belts or drive and it burned oil since new. i do remember then coming up (200 miles) for a visit and he used two quarts of oil getting here and it had 50k on it then. he got rid of it at 65k and said by then it cleared bugs out for a 1/4 mile around it and it was so rusty the pevious winter he had to stuff wet rags in the wholes so they would freeze and let the heater warm it up. he didnt even sell it he drove it to the dump and parked it there and bought a new slant 6 Plymouth duster that he just loved. he drove that one over a 100k and that was rare and drove it right up till the day he died. i remember grandma got some insurance money and went and traded it on a plymouth horizon that was another total ***

[TD1886]

dont remember much about it. i know he wasnt to impressed said it spent most of its first year at the dealership and was the most unreliable car he ever owned. it was a long time ago and i was just a teen then but remember him complaining about cam belts or drive and it burned oil since new. i do remember then coming up (200 miles) for a visit and he used two quarts of oil getting here and it had 50k on it then. he got rid of it at 65k and said by then it cleared bugs out for a 1/4 mile around it and it was so rusty the pevious winter he had to stuff wet rags in the wholes so they would freeze and let the heater warm it up. he didnt even sell it he drove it to the dump and parked it there and bought a new slant 6 Plymouth duster that he just loved. he drove that one over a 100k and that was rare and drove it right up till the day he died. i remember grandma got some insurance money and went and traded it on a plymouth horizon that was another total ***

Yup I was right, the cam did ride in the valve pan cover. Read this:

Overhead cam
230
OHC 230 cu in (3.8 L) inline-6

A single overhead camshaft (SOHC) design was introduced by Pontiac in the 1966 model year as the standard engine in the Tempest. Offered also in 1967, the 230 cu in (3.8 L) OHC 6 shared internal dimensions with the overhead valve Chevrolet straight-6 engine it was based on,[citation needed] but had unique cast iron block and head castings. Only the large cam carrier/valve cover was aluminum. It used jackshaft (outside of the block) for oil pump and distributor drive. The jackshaft was driven by the fiberglass reinforced timing belt.[5] It was offered with a single one barrel carburetor, rated at 165 hp (123 kW).[5] A W53 Sprint version for the Firebird produced up to 215 hp (160 kW).

Considered advanced by Detroit engineering standards at the time, the Pontiac OHC 6 followed the Jeep Tornado I6 as the second post-World War II domestic-developed and mass-produced overhead cam automobile engine.[6]

The Pontiac's single camshaft was supported by journals within the aluminum valve cover; no separate bearing shells were used. The cam was driven by a noise-reducing fiberglass-reinforced cogged rubber belt instead of the usual metal chain or gears. Valves were opened with finger followers (centered under the cam) that pivoted at one end on stationary hydraulic adjusters. The oil pump, distributor, and fuel pump were driven by an external jackshaft powered by a rubber timing belt nestled within an aluminum housing bolted to the right side of the block. The head had a single port face with both exhaust and intake valves on the left side and valve stems strongly tilted towards the left. This engine was used in the 1966-67 Tempest and Le Mans and 1967 Firebird.

An optional high-performance Sprint version featured high-compression pistons, hotter cam, dual valve springs, split/dual exhaust manifold, stronger coil, and the then new Rochester Quadrajet carburetor. rated at 207 hp (154 kW).[5] Power was increased to 215 hp (160 kW; 218 PS) in 1967.

Like other Pontiac engines of the era, the OHC 6 was not available in Canada with the exception of the Sprint version of the Firebird. Canadian-market Pontiac automobiles were equipped with the Chevrolet OHV six.

[TD1886]

Here's one for you guys.

1966 - Ak Miller, Art Chrisman, Autolite's Danny Eames, famed Indy-car mechanic Chickie Hirashima, and Mario Andretti teamed up to drop a 255-inch Ford Indy engine into a basically stock fastback for a run at 200 mph during the private Bonneville timing session scheduled by Arfons and two streamliner teams. After successfully setting both D/Production Sedan FIA records at 136.645 (standing kilometer) and 150.134 (standing five-mile), they tipped the can for back-to-back nitromethanated blasts of 171 and 175 before a burned piston ended the outing. From start to finish, the ambitious project spanned just 34 days in late October and early November.

Photograph and information from Motor Trend

[rockrat]

Brings back memories. Built a few Pontiac engines in my day. Blew the 400 (didn't get out of 1st fast enough). Built one 455 then, but not strong enough. Went back to the junkyard and found a 4 bolt main 455 and built another. A lot better. Ran it for a few years then upgraded. Last 455 used 455HO heads I ported and a set of 455SD con rods (knew the people out at HO Racing in Hawthorne, CA well, bought a bunch from them), along with a Edelbrock intake and a 1000 thermoquad carb. 4.56 gears in the rear and 1.65 rocker arms with a RAIV cam. It would RUN. Guessing mid 11's. Could lay down rubber from one power pole past the next one. Tires didn't last long.
Had another Pontiac with 3.23 gears. Stone stock, but long winded. At speed those power poles went by as fast as fence posts. Only did it once, to see just how fast it was. That was enough. Not going to push my luck!! My guardian angel was tired by then. Oh, those were the days

[TD1886]

Brings back memories. Built a few Pontiac engines in my day. Blew the 400 (didn't get out of 1st fast enough). Built one 455 then, but not strong enough. Went back to the junkyard and found a 4 bolt main 455 and built another. A lot better. Ran it for a few years then upgraded. Last 455 used 455HO heads I ported and a set of 455SD con rods (knew the people out at HO Racing in Hawthorne, CA well, bought a bunch from them), along with a Edelbrock intake and a 1000 thermoquad carb. 4.56 gears in the rear and 1.65 rocker arms with a RAIV cam. It would RUN. Guessing mid 11's. Could lay down rubber from one power pole past the next one. Tires didn't last long.
Had another Pontiac with 3.23 gears. Stone stock, but long winded. At speed those power poles went by as fast as fence posts. Only did it once, to see just how fast it was. That was enough. Not going to push my luck!! My guardian angel was tired by then. Oh, those were the days

I think it was you in thread, if not I apologize, but you said that there was no way a 65 Chevelle would do 165mph. Well you read the article I posted about those Mustangs. Remember I don't remember the engine in the Chevelle, but I can guarantee you it was no stock engine. Also about that Plymouth Superbird doing 213 mph on the turnpike we have no way of knowing if the engine was modified or what was done to it and the car. Just sayin.

[Rickf1985]

I think it was you in thread, if not I apologize, but you said that there was no way a 65 Chevelle would do 165mph. Well you read the article I posted about those Mustangs. Remember I don't remember the engine in the Chevelle, but I can guarantee you it was no stock engine. Also about that Plymouth Superbird doing 213 mph on the turnpike we have no way of knowing if the engine was modified or what was done to it and the car. Just sayin.

That would have been me. And that was speaking from a lifetime of pro and semi-pro racing and wrenching. I have driven all of the cars you have mentioned in both stock form and highly modified form. I never tried to go over 200 in a Superbird but I did wrench on them for a few clients and I have driven them and know their capabilities. I do not get my info from internet searches. I can tell you right now that there are few people that have any idea what it is like in a car at over 200 MPH, It is not a Sunday cruise! I do not know of any public turnpikes I would even think about doing that speed on in a prepared race car let alone a factory stock street car from the 60's!!!!! 213 MPH is just under a mile every 15 seconds. Let that sink in for a minute. 15 seconds to cover a mile. A football field plus some every second. And at night? with 60's headlights and 60's tires?

As far as the Chevelle, A 2017 ZL1 Camaro with a professional driver topped out at 168 at the Nürburgring, flat out there was no more. That engine is putting out close to 700 horsepower in a VERY aerodynamic car with a 6 speed transmission. And you are saying a 65 Chevelle with the front end of a barn door beat that?

You could probably find a Yugo that does 120 on the internet if you search for it. Sorry, but I will take practical experience over internet search's any day.

[TD1886]

That would have been me. And that was speaking from a lifetime of pro and semi-pro racing and wrenching. I have driven all of the cars you have mentioned in both stock form and highly modified form. I never tried to go over 200 in a Superbird but I did wrench on them for a few clients and I have driven them and know their capabilities. I do not get my info from internet searches. I can tell you right now that there are few people that have any idea what it is like in a car at over 200 MPH, It is not a Sunday cruise! I do not know of any public turnpikes I would even think about doing that speed on in a prepared race car let alone a factory stock street car from the 60's!!!!! 213 MPH is just under a mile every 15 seconds. Let that sink in for a minute. 15 seconds to cover a mile. A football field plus some every second. And at night? with 60's headlights and 60's tires?

As far as the Chevelle, A 2017 ZL1 Camaro with a professional driver topped out at 168 at the Nürburgring, flat out there was no more. That engine is putting out close to 700 horsepower in a VERY aerodynamic car with a 6 speed transmission. And you are saying a 65 Chevelle with the front end of a barn door beat that?

You could probably find a Yugo that does 120 on the internet if you search for it. Sorry, but I will take practical experience over internet search's any day.

My best friend was a professional racer, he's old now. That includes all the teen stuff up to fuel drag rails. His rail was turning in the 6's. He raced both in U.S. and Europe. I asked him about the "bird" and he said that if it was modified it could probably hit that 213mph. As for the 65 Chevelle he said with the whole car modified engine, suspension, etc he said it would do it, but probably not for long periods. Remember I said for the Chevelle it was at a burst on one of the longer straight sections of that Nevada highway. As for the bird I've been on the turnpike the event happened and I can tell you there are some mighty long straight sections. Again I can assume the driver might have been "blowing out the carbon" not driving the whole pike. I'm an older fellow and I kinda of resent the "internet search" remark. I'm much smarter then that. You probably can tell the young punks that, but not me.

[TD1886]

That would have been me. And that was speaking from a lifetime of pro and semi-pro racing and wrenching. I have driven all of the cars you have mentioned in both stock form and highly modified form. I never tried to go over 200 in a Superbird but I did wrench on them for a few clients and I have driven them and know their capabilities. I do not get my info from internet searches. I can tell you right now that there are few people that have any idea what it is like in a car at over 200 MPH, It is not a Sunday cruise! I do not know of any public turnpikes I would even think about doing that speed on in a prepared race car let alone a factory stock street car from the 60's!!!!! 213 MPH is just under a mile every 15 seconds. Let that sink in for a minute. 15 seconds to cover a mile. A football field plus some every second. And at night? with 60's headlights and 60's tires?

As far as the Chevelle, A 2017 ZL1 Camaro with a professional driver topped out at 168 at the Nürburgring, flat out there was no more. That engine is putting out close to 700 horsepower in a VERY aerodynamic car with a 6 speed transmission. And you are saying a 65 Chevelle with the front end of a barn door beat that?

You could probably find a Yugo that does 120 on the internet if you search for it. Sorry, but I will take practical experience over internet search's any day.

My best friend was a professional racer, he's old now. That includes all the teen stuff up to fuel drag rails. His rail was turning in the 6's. He raced both in U.S. and Europe. I asked him about the "bird" and he said that if it was modified it could probably hit that 213mph. As for the 65 Chevelle he said with the whole car modified engine, suspension, etc he said it would do it, but probably not for long periods. Remember I said for the Chevelle it was at a burst on one of the longer straight sections of that Nevada highway. As for the bird I've been on the turnpike the event happened and I can tell you there are some mighty long straight sections. Again I can assume the driver might have been "blowing out the carbon" not driving the whole pike. I'm an older fellow and I kinda of resent the "internet search" remark. I'm much smarter then that. You probably can tell the young punks that, but not me. BTW that straight away on turnpike I speak of is 11 miles long. That's plenty of road to see what your car can do top end.

[rbuck351]

In the early 70s I worked in an engine rebuild shop. The owner was partners in a couple of others that raced late model sportsman "stock cars" They were using a chevelle laguna with a .030 over 350 that showed 540hp at 6800. One year they took it to Ontario speedway in Ca for a race. They timed in at 168 with the motor not running quite right. Back in the pit they were not allowed to work on the car until race day the next weekend. They found a bent pushrod, replaced it and won their class. Their time in was 13th overall including the big boys stock cars. No, it wasn't a street car but it was an engine that was restricted to a 750 cfm carb. The car was highly modified as well.

Even in the 60s if you had the money and the know how, you could make a car go fast. The Studebaker Avanti was supposed to run 170 or so off the showroom.