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Thread: What I discovered about the Dillon Square Deal

  1. #1
    Boolit Master omgb's Avatar
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    What I discovered about the Dillon Square Deal

    In another thread, I noted that I was searching for a new progressive. Well, I found a Dillon SD for a price too good to pass on and bought it. After cleaning it and going through it, I have some observations. Let me first preface by saying this is not my first rodeo. I've been an active handloader of pistol, rifle, shotshell and 19th century BP rounds since the 1970s. I have owned Lyman, RCBS, Redding, Hornady, Pacific, Star, Lachmiller, Ponsness Warren and Lee presses. I also have a Huntington hand press. When I say Lyman, I mean everything from the turret press, the 310 tools and even an old arsenal press. In short, I have a PhD in loading presses. All get the job done, in one fashion or another but a few really stand out in the excellence of their design and the utility of their function. The T-7 is one of those. If you load long BP shells with heavy, long bullets, this press gets the job done and done very well. It can even be used as a simi-progressive, much like the PW press in that you can take a round through all of the stations before taking it off the ram. It's faster than a traditional single stage but using it this way is not the ideal system for maintaining accurate powder throws. The shaking as you rotate the turret head settles the powder. Some powders are worse than others. For BP though, this difference is too small to be a concern.

    My first venture into progressive reloading was a Hornady pro-jector press. that was a fiddly boat anchor and I gave it away. Next I bought a LNL ammo plant. A fine press with regard to case retention and advance. Splitting the advance into half rotations up and down reduced the abruptness of the rotation cycle and prevented a lot of powder spillage from smaller cases. The powder measure was also excellent. Of course, having 5 holes was necessary because in the early days, you had to use a case expander die as the PTX feature hadn't been developed. Eventually, the PTX system fixed that but...you had an expensive conversion kit and a host of PTX dies and turnbuckles etc that added up to big $$ early on. The case ejector wire made using Lee taper crimp dies impossible in station 5. Hornady fixed that by redesigning the ejector system, Great, but now to use it you had to buy yet another conversion upgrade and every one of your old shell plates had to be modified back at the factory! Ugh. The two biggest system failures were related to the primer feed and the case feed. The case feeder is a Rube Goldberg assemblage of adapters, tubes and chutes that works, sort of. The case feeder tube is noisy, and you need multiple case feeder plates to go from pistol to rifle. It is expensive, needlessly complicated, overly noisy and it fails, a lot. Misfed cases are a common issue. It either fails to drop a case, drops all the cases or fails to properly insert a case into the shell plate. Either way, it will cause you to curse.

    Then there's the priming system. I did every trick, kept things perfectly clean and still, it rarely ran 200 primers in a row without misfeeding. When it did, you got powder flakes into the shell plate and the system had to be torn down and cleaned right away. What a PITA!

    I tried their inline bullet feeding dies too. Geez, what trash. No lead bullets would feed. Jacketed bullets would either fail to feed or feed the entire tube. I did every trick in the book and a few of my own. They were trash. I bought a Mr. Bullet Feeder mini and never looked back. Flawless feeding every time.

    The other issue was the cost of replacing broken/failed parts. Every conceivable thing that could break did. Primer system guide rods were especially prone to failure. Hornady would replace them, but at my cost. The same was true of the springs and parts in the priming shuttle and case retainer. All very expensive over time. The LNL ammo plant continually got upgraded with primer alarms, low powder sensors, a counter, press lights etc. but it was always a finicky, breakage and stoppage prone press. Very disappointing.

    That brings me to the Dillon SDB. I can tell that every step of this press was designed with function and durability in mind. First, it's pistol oriented. Thus, it has a small footprint on the bench, and it has a very short press stroke. This point becomes even better after one gets accustomed to using it. It's easy.

    Second the entire ram system is square and guided on four sides by warranty covered (no cost) Delrin guides that reduce friction while keeping the ram aligned within the frame. It's brilliant. In fact, anything that rotates, slides or moves is guided by Delrin. It's slippery, tough and easily replaceable under warranty for life. Mike Dillon got that right from the get-go.

    The case holder rotates just fast enough and there is sufficient room on the right and left of the press for inserting cases and bullets. The retention pins are indestructible and easily removed. The ejection system is simple, easily replaced if need be and it works 100% of the time.

    The powder measure has a failsafe feature. Many times, on my LNL, the drum would jam and no powder would drop. A fix required a removal of the measure, emptying the powder and cleaning. Often as not, the cause of the failure could not be determined, and it would come and go without warning. Very frustrating. I'm not crazy about the Dillon slide bar system for measurement but it seems to work. I can see it was a carryover from the Star system. Removal of the measure is easier than the LNL bushing system. The Dillon integral case expander is another stroke of genius. No separate die. Just a drop in powder funnel that is caliber specific. No need for adapters, spacers, springs etc. It's simple, functional, fool proof and, time and cost effective. It is far superior in all areas to the Hornady PTX or RCBS systems. The only thing as simple and functional is that new Lee measure. If that proves to be durable it will be a game changer.

    The most unique feature of the SDB is that it uses proprietary dies. At first this, and the conversion price was off putting. However, after closer inspection, I can see the true genius in this system. Set up is a breeze with minimal adjustment and almost zero fiddling. No bushing dies, no sizer adjustment. Just fill the case head, adjust seating and crimping and off you go. Yes, a caliber change is $145 but, it's a single life time purchase and it's got everything you need in the kit. I like that. It's easy and gets me back to shooting ASAP. I just wish it came in 32-20.

    So, you pay more for the Dillon, but not really more when you consider how much special stuff Hornady and RCBS require you to buy to do the same work. There is no question, Dillon has the better warranty. I would had just one consideration. If you shoot .223 or .308/3006 in volume, buy the 550C. It does everything the SDB does plus it will load bottleneck cases. The trade off is in the press footprint. The 550C is a full sized press and takes up some space. Both will do 300 rounds per hour. That's a fair amount of loading for such a simple, flawless design.

    I think the Dillon press is the better progressive press. I also think the SDB is an excellent compromise between size, function, and reliability. That's my $.02.
    R J Talley
    Teacher/James Madison Fellow

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


    Walter Laich's Avatar
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    Dillon SD was my first press (did you note no "B"?) they came out with the "B" version a bit later

    I went with a toolhead for each caliber conversion so the change comes down to shellplate swap and 4 screws for toolhead swap. I have machines with both large and small primer systems so life is good

    one aftermarket item I love is the spring-loaded retainer collar clamp that holds the powder measure to the powder die. It makes taking the powder measure easy to remove when emptying it after a reloading session

    mine were 3D printed but here is a link to what they look like (not associated with this company in any way) https://entirelycrimson.com/collecti...powder-measure
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy Kai's Avatar
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    I'm with you on the sdb. Bought my first one around 2001. I've had to replace the handle but a new one was sent free of charge. I bought a second one about 10 years ago only because I found it at a garage sale for $50. It was even set up for 40/10mm. The handle broke on that one too but was also replaced. I've got most all caliber conversions set up ready to go. I like the small foot print but since I have the room have added strong mounts, bullet trays, and the loaded round/empty case bin holder. If ever you call dillon for warranty or parts and they ask if you need anything else get extra plate ball bearings/springs, screws, primer tube tips, delrin rods, etc. They will send them all for free. It really is a great press with unmatched warranty.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master AnthonyB's Avatar
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    I come and go on the SDB. I have two, which are supposed to be small/large primer but never seem to work out that way based on what I am loading. I am currently on the love side of the relationship after loading all the 380 ACP brass I had.
    Tony

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyB View Post
    I come and go on the SDB. I have two, which are supposed to be small/large primer but never seem to work out that way based on what I am loading. I am currently on the love side of the relationship after loading all the 380 ACP brass I had.
    Tony
    Why the going/hate side??

  6. #6
    Boolit Master AnthonyB's Avatar
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    kai:
    First world abundance problems. I have a 550 and RL1100s in small and large primer. The SDB doesn't have as much "space" available for my hands, so I went away from them. The RL1100 is the hands down winner for production, but I have realized I am a reloader who shoots instead of a shooter who reloads. A huge improvement on the SDB was moving the bullet tray lower on the Strong Mount to give more access to the toolhead.
    My thoughts:
    1. SDB is pistol only, 550 will do everything.
    2. Don't really care about #1; I have other options.
    3. RL1100 is a far better machine, and the priming on the downstroke is genius, except...
    4. I feel the need to chamber check and inspect for a primer on every round from the RL1100. I can feel the primer seat on the SDB and 550. That somehow makes it OK to not chamber check every round.
    5. The SDB seems more "relaxed" to me. The RL1100s require a few thousand rounds per session to be more efficient than the 550 or SDB, but that comes at a cost of absolute attention.
    6. The ram stroke on the 550 seems to invite more tolerance stacking than the short stroke of the SDB, with no real gain in output.
    My pistol "shooting" ammo is now loaded on the 1100s. My Zombie Apocalypse ammo is loaded on a single stage or SDB and 550.

  7. #7
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    i had 5 square deals and lost them in a fire. replaced them with two lnls and that was a huge mistake. like you said they ought to hang the man who designed the case feeder and severely beat the men who designed the primer feed and the advance system that wonders out of time about every 500 rounds. i got so frustrated i bought a 550 and the only thing i use the lnl's for anymore is case processing and pulled odd both case feeders .one set up in 223 and one in 308 to small base size and deprime and trim with a dillon trimer. the they get primer pockets swaged and then are tumble.. then primed charged and bullets seated on the 550. wish i still had two 550s because then id never use them.

    Ive loaded THOUSANDS AND I MEAN MANY MANY THOUSANDS of rounds on square deals and love them. loaded a few thousands on the buddys 650s and his two 1050s too and there wonderful presses but this late in the game im using what i have. but back in the day when i did most of my loading on square deals i found my self at the buddys house loading some rounds on his 650 while he was pulling the handle on his 1050. he was edging me out by a little in production mostly because those 1050s are so smooth and just dont miss a beat. i was thinking while loading that this sure isnt faster then then my sqare deals. mostly because the stroke is so much shorter on a sd. i mention it to him and he said no way not with a case feeder. he had one square deal in 45acp. we tried it with both of us using each press and the square deal one both times only by a few rounds but none the less faster.

    always wondered why dillon didnt put a case feeder on a square deal. that would be an ammo loading sob. id love to have a 1050 for loading 556 and a square deal in 9mm 40 and 45acp and a 550 tor everything else. that will be my loading room in heaven. now the square deals arent as tough and reliable as a 650 and surely dont compare to the 1050 which is the sherman tank of progressive but what do you expect when its half the price of a 650. it needs a rebuild about every 50-100k but its easy to do or you can send it to dillion and they will do it 4 you. the 9mm one i had i got from that buddy and it was 10 years old. we sat down talking and figured between the two of us it must have a million rounds through it. yup it had been rebuilt a number of times and yes i too have broke handles but we didnt recall ever having a handle or frame crack with that one. if your on a budget and want to crank out lots of pistol ammo fast pick one up. you wont regret it. dont let the idiots that try to tell you a lee or lnl is just as good. me? i truly have been there and done that with both and know youll be loading good ammo while the others are trying to get a couple hundred rounds without hitting the tool box
    Last edited by Lloyd Smale; 05-21-2023 at 06:13 AM.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    It is a great press for pistol ammo. Sometimes I regret selling mine.

    @omgb, I think I know where those dies are, will get back to you.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Laich View Post
    one aftermarket item I love is the spring-loaded retainer collar clamp that holds the powder measure to the powder die. It makes taking the powder measure easy to remove when emptying it after a reloading session

    mine were 3D printed but here is a link to what they look like (not associated with this company in any way)
    I like that gizmo. Will definitely be upgrading/changing to one. I've always struggled a bit getting the stock locking ring in the right location. Along with the threading in/out of the screws taking up time.

    45_Colt

  10. #10
    Boolit Master omgb's Avatar
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    I am patient!
    R J Talley
    Teacher/James Madison Fellow

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy Kai's Avatar
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    Here is a little modification I did to the spent primer catcher. I think there are available commercial gadgets that work the same but before they were available I used a piece of copper tubing. I used a flare tool to flare one end and sandwiched that between the bottom of the press and the metal bracket that comes with the press. Drilled a hole in the bench, added a piece of plastic tubing and a screw top bottle to catch the primers and voila.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I am a SDB fan as well. I load all of my pistol ctg's with one. I currently load .38 spl./.357 mag., 9mm, .44 spl./mag., .41 mag., .45 acp, and .45 Colt. My SDB came to me second hand, and was a great addition to my equipment. I have rebuilt the press twice, Dillon rebuilt it once over the past 20 or so years. One improvement that Dillon made is bronze bushings for the lever links. The last time mine wore out, Dillon sent me new links with bronze bushings. Great little press. I do have separate small primer and large primer feeds to ease caliber change, and modified the primer catch to add a tube and medicine bottle, kind of like kai posted above.
    NRA Endowment Life Member

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I have had a Dillon 550b for about 20 years and like it a lot. Recently I bought an SDB at an auction for $135 with a set of 45acp dies. The press is complete to load 45 acp but has no other parts for loading small primer pistol rounds. I bolted it to my bench and loaded 4 or 5 boxes of 45s to check it out, The only thing I had to adjust was the bullet seating depth. There were no hickups in my test run, it just worked. I thought I might get a set or two of dies for a couple of other pistol calibers but the price of a die set put me off. The 550 works about as well and takes normal dies.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I have both the presses the OP compared.

    My main beefs with the Hornady:
    Trouble feeding Winchester SPPs. I had a bulk supply when I bought the press and nearly sent it back. I probably would have had the SDB not turned up for sale locally on the forum

    The hornady bushing system sucks, IMO.
    It would be much better if they had a ticker, wider flange with flats and a wrench to loosen/tighten. The only way to remove them is to grab the die or lock ring. If the lock

    The thing that really burns my ass, though, is the primer seating rod. The assembly is mounted to the carriage (whatever you call the thing that the shell plate attaches to). When seating, a pointed end of the hardened steel rod bears against the soft metal of the press body. Just a couple thousand rounds, and, voila, primers are not seating completely, because there’s a nice divot in the press body.

    Hornady’s response was to tape a piece of hardened steel over it. They had to have known about this before the press hit the market. Instead of addressing it, they wait till customers complain and give them a jury-rig solution.

    The rod that actuates the primer feed pops out of place pretty easily.

    After learning all of the quirks, it’s OK. If I weren’t so invested in the system, I’d probably switch.

    I’ve never had to pay for a replacement part, even when it was something I screwed up. Hornady’s service is excellent.

    The SDB does my bulk ammo loading of .38 Special, my most -consumed round.

    The shorter press stroke and being able to feed bullet and primer with one in each hand are real speed boosters. I doubt there’s another manual press could run any faster without a bullet/case feeder.

    Charging the primer tube is light-years easier than the Hornady. I think I’ve tossed all my Hornady pickup tubes and use the Dillons with both.

    The proprietary dies are a sticking point. I use a lot of custom expanders & crimp dies.

    I could go for some addition leverage. Brass with very tight primer pockets (Euro) can be problematic. The Hornady doesn’t bat an eye at them.

    If I had it to do all over again, I would’ve gone with a 650, but would still have an SDB for bulk loading.

    I should probably look at adding a turret for a lot of what I’m currently doing on the Hornady.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I have loaded many tens of thousands of rounds in my Dillon Square Deal B, in a variety of calibers. YES, it is a pain in the butt to change calibers, but after doing so over the years it has become second nature.

    The greatest feature of the Dillon is their fantastic warranty. I have used mine enough to wear out the nylon guides on the side of it 4 times. A call to Dillon gets a replacement sent to me in a heartbeat AT NO CHARGE!
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

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  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy Big Wes's Avatar
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    I have two SDB's first one cost me $75.00 the second one I gave my friend $200.00 for it. He didn't want any money for it but I just couldn't take it for free. He gave me so much stuff along with it 45 die set 9mm die set, bullets rifle and pistol, few thousand primers, a beam scale, brass , etc etc. I have both SDB's set up for 45 acp's round nose and one for wad cutters. 9mm dies are on a tool stand ready to go. I think they are great presses, work as advertised. I also have a 550b my first ever press and picked up a lightly used 650. Last year I bought my first single stage press a MEC Metallic. incredibly smooth operating press.
    "Hollow Points"-"From Those Who Care Enough To Send The Very Best"


  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master jmorris's Avatar
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    My two SD’s were the first ones ($130), The 550 back then was over $200. I think the SD was a lot better deal back then, today the 550 is $590 and the SD runs $629.

    I won’t sell the two I have now but I can’t honestly say I’d pick one for what they run today.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master omgb's Avatar
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    I agree with jmorris. If I were doing it again, I'd get a 550C and be done with it. The greater flexibility offsets any gains in speed or footprint.
    R J Talley
    Teacher/James Madison Fellow

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub
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    I own several Dillon presses, including three 650s, three SDBs, and a 450.

    The SDB is my favorite and as the OP stated, it is a genius design. Easy to use and works every time.

    I love my 650s, but they are a lot more work that the SDB. Simplicity rules the day most of the time.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check